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How often do you play Dwarf Fortress?

All the time.
- 2 (13.3%)
Sometimes.
- 9 (60%)
Only when there's a new release.
- 2 (13.3%)
Never. ((get out))
- 2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13


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Author Topic: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Stealing combat systems from an eroge  (Read 528167 times)

Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5250 on: August 15, 2014, 12:17:01 pm »

easier said than done, really :P
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IamanElfCollaborator

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5251 on: August 15, 2014, 12:17:52 pm »

You put about two months of thought into your sultanes plot, so you can probably figure it out. :P

Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5252 on: August 15, 2014, 12:22:09 pm »

well, I do have *one* battle "planned" (that is, I had a rough idea for something far in the future that may or may not find a way into a plot), where two of them are to be fought at the same time, and where the most advisable course of action is not me splitting you, but you guys splitting them, as one of them is  extremely, extremely deadly to some of the PCs, while losing potency against others, similarly for the second one. If both are fought at once, they will not hesistate to work as a team and focus on killing you efficently, so yeah, best to tread with care. I may or may not be able to split the party by making two events happen at the same time, but with all the teleports and portals, that is easier said than done
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

Rolepgeek

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5253 on: August 15, 2014, 12:33:00 pm »

my entire arguement was that Sens abilities use the same ruleset as everyones abilities. It's the easiest and most reliable form of balancing an ability. If that is opressively aggressive from me, then I'll gladly take the blame. The rules are not optional.

Why not?

Seriously, though, why the fuck not? Why not have them be optional? This is a fucking game, after all! Why the fuck are you people making such a huge deal out of this shit? Nobody but you even fucking cares about how OP a character is! It's a foregone conclusion in just about every goddamn case that the PCs win anyway! The only thing that matters is making a good fucking story out of it! And making everyone use the same rules means there's nothing actually unique about each character! Hellfire is no different than minor ezplosion which is no different than paper crane or whatever other magic people have. I mean, jeezus fucking christ, the rules are not all important, Akroma! This is not Dungeons and Dragons! Freeform fights have been had, and are completely possible and fun, too, and the world didn't fucking end!

God fucking damnit, I have a shitty fucking morning and get fucking terrified, and then I come back ti this bullshit. Fuck. I mean, what the fuck, dude. Who gives a fucking shit? I'm planning on making a character that uses magic but doesn't even fucking use mana, for shit's sake. Who gives a shit if ahe'a more powerful? Hell, I fucking like imbalance. It makes a better story if not everyone is exactlythr same power level as everyone else and you can trust people not to fuck around with it. Have some god-fucking-damned faith in people, Akroma.
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5254 on: August 15, 2014, 12:44:26 pm »

when people suggest attacks that do 400 damage when 40 is considered high, my faith in people turns off to set things right. An important point behind the entire rule-rewrite and start of v3 was that many people did not actually have fun with things being a foregone conclusion, and people trying to cater to that were unable to do so, because the old system broke at too high stats.

you can like imbalance as much as you like, but we have to consider that many don't. I think a char is not actually awesome until the victory was earned, and I (and I think smurf as well, and also PN) want to very much avoid my battles being a foregone conclusion. It's just not fun that way if you can't lose. So attacks that just blast out such insane amounts of damage are a real problem.

I mean, storytelling wise, there is only so much development you can have besides "the PCs are super awesome and pretty bored of the super easy fights".

I am not sure where I got nthis quote from, but philosophical question:

Can someone who has absolute power be couragous? And if the victory in battle was a foregone conclusion, can you still call a knight valiant?
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

kj1225

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5255 on: August 15, 2014, 01:03:28 pm »

Remember that time that Rachel talked to Hilda's arm?
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Projeck37

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5256 on: August 15, 2014, 01:04:23 pm »

...
...
All I have to say is, what the fuck Akroma? Did you really just drive off Sanure?
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5257 on: August 15, 2014, 01:10:29 pm »

sanure drove himself off. I just pointed out that the game has rules, and we wouldn't have a problem with Sen being able to oneshot every boss from now until 3 years in the future if he simply used those rules instead of making up numbers on the spot. Due to Sanure having personal problems that I was unaware off, he over-reacted. If that was opressively horrible from me then bah, I will gladly take the blame. But I'd put the blame on the suiciding family members. I may have been less confrontational if I had known *beforehand* what was going on, but there is no way I could anticipate that suggesting that the reason for Sen being unbalanced was that her abilities were not based on the rules would cause a quit. This was neither my goal, nor was I aware of it.
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

mcclay

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5258 on: August 15, 2014, 01:12:24 pm »

Quote from: dumb people
Useless arguing.
Oh man, its like I never left  ::)
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kj1225

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5259 on: August 15, 2014, 01:13:35 pm »

Quote from: dumb people
Useless arguing.
Oh man, its like I never left  ::)
It's not the useless arguing. It's the people continuing them after we agreed to stop.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5260 on: August 15, 2014, 01:14:07 pm »

Quote from: dumb people
Useless arguing.
Oh man, its like I never left  ::)

...

I... Yeah, pretty much. Sorry about this.
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IamanElfCollaborator

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5261 on: August 15, 2014, 01:20:48 pm »

Quote from: dumb people
Useless arguing.
Oh man, its like I never left  ::)

Projeck37

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5262 on: August 15, 2014, 01:24:52 pm »

From what I read, he let you know that it was being handled by the GM, and himself. You proceeded to talk about it, mentioning more stuff about the system or whatever. Sanure told you what I said prior, you seemed to ignore it and continue on anyways. Then Sanure brought up his issues, and asked you to drop it as the GM will have it handled, yet you still continued. At that point you seemed fully aware (I should also mention that he did say stuff about that after his and Smurf's argument), and continued the conversation/argument, and from what I could see after the edit, you said "tl;dr: it is wrong to use the dead as a freepass." He was explaining as to why he was angry, not trying to get a "freepass" out of the argument, regardless death of a family member isn't nothing. It is a valid reason to take a "freepass" on a conversation if it is inciting you in some way. From what I can tell, you were just being hard-headed and not paying attention to what Sanure was saying. No offense intended, it happens to us all at moments.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5263 on: August 15, 2014, 01:28:41 pm »

Someone with absolute power can still feel fear. Victory as a foregone conclusion has nothing to do with the sacrifice, effort, or honor involved in that victory.

But let me ask you this: in what way do we 'earn' our victories? They are rolls of a dice. Arbitrary results. We do not 'earn' them. We hope the dice do not make the story implausible or impossible to continue. No more. My point is not that people should be allowed to do whatever they wish with the rules; my point is that there is, in the end, no need for rules at all. You cannot abuse what isn't there. I trust you guys, more or less. I think that if I ran a freeform boss fight, there would be a shitton of arguing because everyone wants to be the coolest. But I think that if I warned you guys ahead of time that it would be freeform? That you could figure it out. That you could find a way to make it work without pulling stupid crap.

Storytelling wise, there's a shitton of development beyond "the PCs hit the bad giys to make them fall down". All storytelling involves conflict; not all conflict is fighting, and not all storytelling is conflict. Cna you never read a book or watch a movie, knowing the good guys will inevitably win in the end? Are you one of those people whp's obsessed with spoilers being the devil? Do you think that stories are about the destination, not the journey?

400 damage is really goddamn high, I won't deny it. Guess what else is fucking huge? A 300-statbase Archon. But you couldn't fucking let it go. And you don't even understand balance as well as you think you do, numbers-wise or practicality terms. You look at the worst case min max abuse scenario for every fucking situation because you can't believe that people aren't middle schoolers who've never even heard of an RPG before. Maybe that's untrue, but that's what it looks like from my perspective.

Finally, I don't care about making the PCs awesome! That's not the point of this, for me! This isn't some fucked up wish fulfillment fantasy, or the shipping dens Elf views everything in(pretty sure Elf's vision is in fact based on fanfiction possibilities). This is making a story. The real good stories? The ones that aren't Power Rangers or crap like that? The characters in them aren't 'awesome'. They might be cool, they might be incredible, but they're rarely awesome in the sense you're thinking of. They aren't perfect. They're typically dysfunctional, because fucking everyone in real life is dysfunctional in some way. We aren't perfect. We can't overcome every challenge. Neither can characters. Sure, they win in the end, but they lose some on the way. But the mosh pit "boss fights" we have now that are just dice spamming? How's that any better than some ubercharged death beam of doom? This doesn't, shouldn't, and will never have the rules complexity of games like DnD, where it's built entirely around combat. So please, stop thinking of it like it is. It's not. It's different, and that's good. Making everything the same isn't fun, it's boring.

Also, shut the fuck up about Sanure's family. You don't get to say shit about someone else's family, and you definitely don't get to fucking blame whoever was depresses enough that they committed suicide. Don't you fucking dare go around throwing that shit around. This is your fault, not Sanure's, not anyone else's, because you're the one who continued to fucking get on Sanure's case after he said he would fix it with Smurf and not use it until then. You were the one being a jackass. So own up to it. You don't get to decide the fucking rules, and for that matter, neither does smurf, not really. Everyone does. Because we could do this game just fine without smurf. We can do this game just fine without any single person. We decide the rules as a whole, but you wouldn't fucking shut up about them. As if they were immutable. Kaotaro uses a unique resource system. HILDA is fucking ridiculous in the way she can change her stats. ICARUS has a unique system for her abilities. Unique rules are everywhere. Why would this be any different? But it's not even about that, it's about you, not, fucking, stopping. Sanure said he didn't want to argue this, and that he would talk about it with smurf later, but no, you had to go and keep fucking pushing it.

God-FUCKING-damnit, Akroma. Own the fuck up.
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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #5264 on: August 15, 2014, 01:31:11 pm »

I think it's time to lock the threads to let everyone cool down for a bit. Just a thought here guys.
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