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How often do you play Dwarf Fortress?

All the time.
- 2 (13.3%)
Sometimes.
- 9 (60%)
Only when there's a new release.
- 2 (13.3%)
Never. ((get out))
- 2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13


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Author Topic: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Stealing combat systems from an eroge  (Read 523854 times)

Empiricist

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4185 on: August 03, 2014, 11:40:37 pm »

How much control does he have over the material? If for whatever reason he needed iron but all he had was a steel object (no, I have no idea what sort of combat situation involves iron being more useful than steel either :P), would he be able to project out pure iron?

Also, if he had a diamond, would the projection be diamond or would it be graphite? Or can he choose between the two?
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Projeck37

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4186 on: August 03, 2014, 11:42:43 pm »

He has control over what material it is (limited by what's around), and what shape it takes. He cannot say, make iron out of steel. As for the diamond, it would be pure diamond.
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smurfingtonthethird

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4187 on: August 03, 2014, 11:44:19 pm »

What do you consider a stereotypical one?

Is under the age of 18, has an alter-ego/secret identity, a favorite weapon, a transformation sequence, and optionally an adorable animal sidekick.

GENERICISM ALL UP IN THIS BITCH
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Empiricist

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4188 on: August 03, 2014, 11:46:42 pm »

What do you consider a stereotypical one?

Is under the age of 18, has an alter-ego/secret identity, a favorite weapon, a transformation sequence, and optionally an adorable animal sidekick.

GENERICISM ALL UP IN THIS BITCH
So if they're a gangster or child soldier that just happens to have a transformation sequence, would that make them count as a stereotypical one? :P
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4189 on: August 03, 2014, 11:47:49 pm »

rolep, any proposed numericals on that scaling?
On what, Empiricist's idea?

Personally, I don't like it, but there are ways to get around the parts of it that make me twitchy. There's still parts of it I don't like, but it's versatile enough that I'm liking the idea behind it, since you can show that you focus on these one or two stats without being incredibly ineffective; you can use Defense and Resistance for something other than bad armor, now. Especially since we could customize it infinitely, which I like a lot, and we could have fewer skills with greater variety.

If you mean what proportions should boost what for a given mana/health, or something...I dunno. Hrmmmm...I'm thinking one mana gives 15-20% more as a flat bonus, maybe, and one health does the same, or maybe 10-15%. It's hard. Harder since we can all roll stupidly low since most of the time these aren't flat bonuses, so it makes trying to compare it mentally even more difficult. If we aren't doing flat bonuses, then...1 mana to 20-30% more scaling? I don't know, you can't put numbers on this that will work for everyone; in one person's hands(Leth, HILDA) such bonuses could be overpowering and just silly for the cost-damage potential(I understand balancing, even if I don't like it), but for others(Spensir, anyone with a generalist build) they'd be unable to accomplish anything useful with it. You kinda have to customize it to each character in turn, as everyone is unique and a universal system doesn't work well, you're just going to be trying to put duct tape on anything that doesn't sit right, and while duct tape is awesome, it doesn't look nice and things still don't hold together well if that's all th

I mean, the drawback system as it is is kinda ridiculous. 1d3 damage as a drawback for Spensir or Garrett is nothing. To Dalia(h?) on the other hand, that's a significant chunk of health. Meanwhile, Immobilizations are huge past the first, since you're giving up additional turns to do it; one would never really want to take them, since if you fail, you can just try again with the TN lowered by 3, which means effectively the same thing happened anyway, just this way you aren't wasting as many turns. The idea of TN in the first place doesn't sit right with me, because it gives another way for your huge magic shit to fail and then you're useless for the rest of the fight. Or stuck doing some weirdass random shitty move that doesn't even apply anymore. I understand the purpose of it -Magic is supposed to be high risk, high reward- but I just don't like the flavor or anything else about it, really.

Blargh I'm just rambling now.
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Empiricist

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4190 on: August 03, 2014, 11:48:33 pm »

I think she was referring to your comment on armor scaling...
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Projeck37

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4191 on: August 03, 2014, 11:50:09 pm »

What do you consider a stereotypical one?

Is under the age of 18, has an alter-ego/secret identity, a favorite weapon, a transformation sequence, and optionally an adorable animal sidekick.

GENERICISM ALL UP IN THIS BITCH
Nodoka/Gatekeeper is a magic girl then.
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Empiricist

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Re: Rise of the NPCs v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4192 on: August 03, 2014, 11:50:44 pm »

So in other words, the eponymous entities are just NPCs :P

The idea of TN in the first place doesn't sit right with me, because it gives another way for your huge magic shit to fail and then you're useless for the rest of the fight. Or stuck doing some weirdass random shitty move that doesn't even apply anymore. I understand the purpose of it -Magic is supposed to be high risk, high reward- but I just don't like the flavor or anything else about it, really.
I conccur, it would make sense for another setting and system like Perplexicon where any spell cast successfully is guaranteed to be a threat if you know what you're doing, but here, it just adds another failure clause and makes differentiates magic and physical further. Whilst I agree that magic and physical should have significant differences, those should be on a very limited number of decisive matters, not having what are effectively two entirely different systems, which just makes it more complicated to run and harder to balance.

In fact, I personally (and by this I mean I am not necessarily recommending this be adopted, merely voicing a hypothetical situation) don't see why mana is magic exclusive anyway. Let's take Ashley for example, if she can just shapeshift to an extent, why can't she enhance her physical attacks by contorting her body and bending her limbs at unnatural angles to increase her chances of hitting any enemy trying to dodge? Why can Sen, a master of general purpose magic not pump some of her own magic into enchanted weapons to temporarily empower them? Yes, I am well away that using magic to enhance one's own stats is ICARUS' ability, however she could simply do it with greater efficiency and versatility than everyone else, after all just about all of her systems could theoretically improved by increased power (defensive stats by having electric reactive armor and pumping it into it, offensive stats by pumping into weapons and motors, mobility and accuracy by pumping into motors and propulsion) whilst no one else has the freedom to improve any stat of their choice.

Effectively, it means that MNA actually becomes usable even by characters focused on physical combat. After all characters are so attached to their weapons that they may as well just be similar to spells for them, I mean has anyone ever just picked up a generic gun, shot someone and thrown it away when it ran out of ammo? Does anyone even have a generic weapon? With amount of speculative fiction or magic in half the weapons they may as well be a more limited, modular ability in themselves. Here's a few examples:
Electric Machete - Input mana, increase fine control over enchantment in order to use it as a defibrillator, it ain't going to be pleasant, but it can save lives;
Silver Particle Cannon - Input mana, add radiation poisoning and increases accuracy as high energy particles blasts in atmosphere result in a lot of radiation;
Supression - Input mana, void infusement causing small AOE and increased anti-creation damage;
Phaseblade - Input mana, increase phasing capabilities to ignore even higher classes of armor;
Ceramic Knives - Input mana, increase entropic power;

It may be argued that a MAG roll is required in all those cases, however, from my understanding, stats are used for the actually difficult actions. People don't roll to breathe or require any STR to stand up or carry equipment. Likewise, inputting magic into enchanted or otherwise compatible equipment should not actually require a magic roll seeing as it should be rather easy to do so.

A corollary would be that mana input only work if it should logically be possible. That is, someone with supernatural abilities of one realm would be unable to input mana into equipment powered by another realm unless the equipment has been specifically made or modified to allow it. Effectively, Void can only empower Void without modification. Creation can only empower Creation without modification. Twilight would be the exception in that, the equipment would not only have to be Twilight but also from the same Twilight realm, that is, Jungian Psychiatry cannot power Wall Street and vice versa despite both being Twilight.

Personally, I don't like it, but there are ways to get around the parts of it that make me twitchy. There's still parts of it I don't like
It is indeed far from perfect seeing as it pretty much requires a damn spreadsheet to calculate.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 04:32:49 am by Empiricist »
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4193 on: August 04, 2014, 08:08:04 am »

I am not sure mana is just "out in, get magic result". people needs years to learn how to put mana to proper use, especialy very quickly in a high stress environment like combat, it's a difficult thing. That's why few people ever learn much more than what they are naturaly affine to
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IamanElfCollaborator

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4194 on: August 04, 2014, 08:31:42 am »

What do you consider a stereotypical one?

Is under the age of 18, has an alter-ego/secret identity, a favorite weapon, a transformation sequence, and optionally an adorable animal sidekick.

GENERICISM ALL UP IN THIS BITCH
Nodoka/Gatekeeper is a magic girl then.
Who said she wasn't?

Projeck37

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4195 on: August 04, 2014, 01:55:36 pm »

Well, Elf, Smurf said we had 0 (Yes, bolding and underline included) stereotypical magic girls :P
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smurfingtonthethird

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4196 on: August 04, 2014, 02:28:25 pm »

Well, Elf, Smurf said we had 0 (Yes, bolding and underline included) stereotypical magic girls :P

Who are PCs.  :P

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Empiricist

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4197 on: August 04, 2014, 02:35:08 pm »

I am not sure mana is just "out in, get magic result". people needs years to learn how to put mana to proper use, especialy very quickly in a high stress environment like combat, it's a difficult thing. That's why few people ever learn much more than what they are naturaly affine to
Lore can always be handled easily. It is the mechanical aspect that is of interest.

After all, your statement assumes that the mana input is entirely dependent on the user, I see no reason why that should be the case. If it is advantageous to be able to input further quantities of mana into an object, it is likely that equipment and their enchantments would have that as a consideration in their creation. Effectively, the enchantment performs the work for the user, all they must do is provide the mana. Furthermore, it would be possible to modify pre-existing equipment to possess this function.

Mana siphon enchantment. Doesn't have to be remotely powerful since it doesn't need to take it forcibly. Upon activation, drains the user's mana and inputs it into the enchantment of the object. That could theoretically work.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 02:38:17 pm by Empiricist »
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IamanElfCollaborator

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4198 on: August 04, 2014, 02:37:39 pm »

Well, Elf, Smurf said we had 0 (Yes, bolding and underline included) stereotypical magic girls :P

Who are PCs.  :P


Anima fits every category except age.

Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Cado And Math Return!
« Reply #4199 on: August 04, 2014, 02:39:05 pm »

also summoning gods. that's not a standard attack.


speaking of anima and Maria, when will we ever see them again have a line of dialogue :P ?
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