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All the time.

2 (13.3%)

Sometimes.

9 (60%)

Only when there's a new release.

2 (13.3%)

Never. ((get out))

2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[Sanure]

Regarding Lucifer as I worked with GWG on him and still have control of him should someone summon him, he isn't overlord of Hell as Sanure keeps forgetting, he's simply the most powerful demon as he is most convenient as a leader for them. If he started trying to be all overlordy he'd be crushed thus why he's so willing to make deals.

Also, the full lore on souls according to GWG is that they are taken by gods, then if unclaimed heaven, and if still unclaimed they are taken by a demon. Powerful people, trophies if you will, are normally somewhat pampered as they are pretty much marks of power for demons. Examples would be:  Any of the Northsdale Five, Icarus, Anima if they somehow got her, and Obama who I want to claim for a character.

Ah, I knew I was forgetting something. If anything, Ask KJ about hell. He has more experience with it than I.

@KJ, I don't remember Akroma ever mentioning Hell. I mentioned it a few times though.

[Rolepgeek]

If he can use True Exile on them, they're probably in a position where he can kill them normally anyway, you know...unless Void beings are invincible and cannot die, which is it's own brand of OP.

Also, I made Edits, take a look, to my post above.

Also, don't forget guys, that making everyone exactly balanced just means that in a fight between players it will always end (basically) in a tie unless the RNG gets uppity. Which is...odd, to say the least.

I mean, I don't want Leth to just turn into a Hell-flavored Alucard, which seems to be the direction this is going.

[PrivateNomad]

Void entities are pretty much immortal.

Alucard's perk is mana efficiency, where the spells he casts costs one less mana. That is from MAG.

Also, I would consider that summon godly. His stat base appears small, but he has very OP abilities and perks. 4 HP per health? OP. And that's without mentioning all the other abilities and perks.

[Empiricist]

And again, like I said, maybe he just bound the powerful ones, rather than just random dudes. If Hell is as numerous as Earth, 22 Dukes is very few, after all.

Judging by their abilities, I would presume they were ones that were useful to him that he could actually command.

Also, note that there are at least 22 Dukes of Hell not Demonic Dukes. Not all the Dukes actually are demons. So if you wish, you could just say that 13 Dukes are true demons and the rest are entities that are considered demons or were granted that title for services rendered.

Also, don't forget guys, that making everyone exactly balanced just means that in a fight between players it will always end (basically) in a tie unless the RNG gets uppity. Which is...odd, to say the least.

Not really. Strategy, tactics and contingency measures would play a significant role.

[kj1225]

Yes well Icarus referred to Lucifer as the overlord of Hell and Akroma never corrected it.

[smurfingtonthethird]

Void entities are pretty much immortal.

If you trap them in a strong anti-void field and kill them, they don't come back.

[PrivateNomad]

Void entities are pretty much immortal.

If you trap them in a strong anti-void field and kill them, they don't come back.

Assuming they had a strong enough anti-void field to do that. Hornless entities and 1-horned entities probably could, but have fun killing the higher entities like the ones we're fighting now with that.

[Rolepgeek]

Those entities also couldn't be Truely Exiled, now could they?

The difficulties are about on par.

As well, if you wanna consider it godly, PrivateNomad, I disagree, but that's our differences of opinion. I can change it, but you just saying 'it's godly' seems like you're saying 'it looks like it might actually be dangerous and require more than just tossing attacks at him to beat'...which is the point. He's a Duke of Hell. They don't get to their positions by being weak. Granted, I haven't been using this system long enough to know whether X is balanced, but somehow I don't think have 4 HP per point of health is OP. It's a third more survivability. That's all. I listed them as Perks simply because I didn't know what else to list passive abilities as. Not all of them are beneficial.

As well, isn't immortality "OP"? Void entities in general seem fairly made up of shenanigans.

And I would certainly argue that a perk that reduces mana cost has to do with mana.

[smurfingtonthethird]

Assuming they had a strong enough anti-void field to do that. Hornless entities and 1-horned entities probably could, but have fun killing the higher entities like the ones we're fighting now with that.

Well, to do that, you'd need to hit them with something made of pure Creation then, wouldn't you? 

[Empiricist]

As well, isn't immortality "OP"? Void entities in general seem fairly made up of shenanigans.

You have no idea how much I've argued against half their crap in the past. By the way, apparently, you can never kill a void entity in the void for some absurd reason.

[PrivateNomad]

If void entities could die then the void would be fucked, considering how few of them there are already.
Immortal characters OP? I guess a lot of the cast is op then.

The perk simply makes his spells more effecient. It's in the OP as one of the example perks.

Assuming they had a strong enough anti-void field to do that. Hornless entities and 1-horned entities probably could, but have fun killing the higher entities like the ones we're fighting now with that.

Well, to do that, you'd need to hit them with something made of pure Creation then, wouldn't you? 

Actual anti-void is actually void magic itself. Nullifying itself and all that.
Pure creation? Pure means it is completely clean of anything else. Does that mean anything that isn't pure creation has some void in it?

As well, isn't immortality "OP"? Void entities in general seem fairly made up of shenanigans.

You have no idea how much I've argued against half their crap in the past. By the way, apparently, you can never kill a void entity in the void for some absurd reason.

Never kill as in they are invincible in the void or they are still immortal? If the former, then that's bullshit. They would still take time to reform as always, but I doubt they are invincible. You can still kill demons in hell, and you can still kill creation entities in creation, it should be the same with the void.

[Empiricist]

As well, isn't immortality "OP"? Void entities in general seem fairly made up of shenanigans.

You have no idea how much I've argued against half their crap in the past. By the way, apparently, you can never kill a void entity in the void for some absurd reason.

Never kill as in they are invincible in the void or they are still immortal? If the former, then that's bullshit. They would still take time to reform as always, but I doubt they are invincible. You can still kill demons in hell, and you can still kill creation entities in creation, it should be the same with the void.
[/quote]
The previous lore is, you can kill them. It just doesn't count at all. As soon as you exit, they're still alive.

[PrivateNomad]

Previous void lore confuses me as all hell.

[Rolepgeek]

As well, isn't immortality "OP"? Void entities in general seem fairly made up of shenanigans.

You have no idea how much I've argued against half their crap in the past. By the way, apparently, you can never kill a void entity in the void for some absurd reason.

Unless you're their master, apparently.

Yep. Nigh-complete immortality/invulnerability isn't OP, apparently, but the ability to keep you out of a plane of existence after a long and arduous process is. Sounds legit. [/sarcasm]

As to your logic about void entities dying and the void being fucked; no, that's bullshit logic, that is so much bullshit logic. The solution isn't 'the few of them there are are impossible to kill' it's 'when one dies, it gets shoved in the fucking soul mill like the rest of them'. Just have it recycle shit, jeezus.

None of my characters are immortal. Mabarius could be considered immortal in some sense, but gods can be killed. It's just balls-breakingly hard(and Mabarius can't do shit on his own anyway, really). Being invincible/immortal seems way more OP than just about anything else, since it means you simply cannot lose. Not in the long run, at any rate. While those who can die, well...can die.

[smurfingtonthethird]

Actual anti-void is actually void magic itself. Nullifying itself and all that.
Pure creation? Pure means it is completely clean of anything else. Does that mean anything that isn't pure creation has some void in it?

Well, how does the whole "respawning" thing work anyway? How do Creation and Void particles interact that makes them destroy each other? How does void manage to not be instantly cleaved into trillions of tiny pieces when they enter creation, like when creation enters the void?