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All the time.

2 (13.3%)

Sometimes.

9 (60%)

Only when there's a new release.

2 (13.3%)

Never. ((get out))

2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[Kansa]

I think half the people just forgot about it. Also there were complaints back then, the exact same complaints which were then addressed, which people then forgot about. Which from my experience with collaborative settings, does indeed happen without some sort of centralized documentation.

I didn't see any complaints around that post actually, but yeah even so I think we have had the same conversation in the past.

Wasn't that what Everything: Gaiden, New Dawn Academy and Dissociation were meant to be?

Pretty much yeah.

[Sanure]

@Kansa, what is being complained about is the lack of proof of approval. As I discussed with Projeck a while back, A lot of the void stuff that was injected into the game was... not approved by the void Lore holders, Aka Projeck and Ragnarok. It was like how Akroma tried to overwrite my lore on Sen to make Amazeroth's Lore, and subsequently her Sultan Lore, more ingrained in the game. There wasn't any permission given, from what I'm learned from my discussions with Lore holders, for the subsequent lore changes. It's not a matter of keeping it hidden or not, or even posting the full lore to the OOC, it's a matter of showing proof that the lore changes were approved by the Lore holders. I'm not asking for the Lore to be scrapped and thrown out. What I am asking for is either Proof of the Void Lore changes being accepted by Project and Ragnarok, or The sultanes being moved to their own seperate entity aside from Void. We have Creation, Void, Twilight, and my Ethemyral. I doubt making the Sultanes their own entity apart from Void would break things.

Also, I'm going to go back and grab all of the parts of When the Sultanes first started being referenced and had full lore disclosure.

@Emp, It was. It didn't work due to clusterfucks happening.

[Empiricist]

Did Projeck and Ragnarok have any GM-recognized right to veto implementations to their lore though? It was a crazy and poorly organized time back then, I mean, if she got USEC or Twi's approval, I'd imagine it would have been considered fine by the standards of the time.

[Sanure]

The thing about it was was that void Lore specifically affected two characters, Void and Ashley. If I go back and look up OP of the OOC for the RotMGv2 thread:

Staff: Keep the game running smoothly.
GM: Me, obviously.
Lore Managers: These guys check any lore and plot submissions as well.
Twi
USEC_OFFICER
Lore Experts: Check these guys for anything involving current lore.
Myself
Ragnarok
kj
Co-GM: Help run the game.
Projeck
PrivateNomad

It says that Twi and USEC were Lore checkers. Their job was to check Lore and Plot submissions. No one was given GM rights of approving any lore. That means Elf was the only one who could approve Lore. But wait, It gets better: Elf stated that no one ever sent him lore approval requests. At all. Not until way late into him not caring about this game anymore. Then, Looking a bit more down, it says to Check with Elf, Ragnarok, and KJ for current Lore. Obviously that part was ignored seeing as the three of them had barely a clue on where all lore stands. Hell, I bet we still don't have a fully compiled list of all approved lore at the ready.

From what I've gathered from the Old v2 thread, the lore keepers were this:

Elf- Persona, Minor and Major Gods.
Emp- Twilight
Rag- Void, The God, Midorikawas.
Projeck- Void, Shadowlands
GWG- Demons
KJ- IRIS, Monstergirls
Twi- Selesnites
Sanure- Ethemyral

If I were to update this list to the current legitimate holders of each lore due to grandfathering:

Projeck- Void, void-walkers, Shadowlands, Moors
KJ- Monster girls, Demons, Iris
Sanure- Demons, Moors, Ethemyral
Private Nomad- Eldritch beings, Dracula
Akroma- Sultanes
Smurf- SERT
EMP- Twilight

See how things would look if people kept to their specific lore? We could do even better if we made all lore that does not affect a player character public domain.

Also, Looking back through v2. I found no full lore disclosure on any of the void sultanes or their lore. The only one I did find was Belkelel, and that was before Akroma changed the domain of Belkelel from hedonism to Robots and golems.

Now, again I'm not saying that the lore needs to be scrapped, far from it actually. I am requesting Proof of the accepted lore change or placing the sultanes in their own entity. All I'm asking.

[Empiricist]

Er, just to be clear, I didn't have the Twilight realms, I just happened to be the only person with stuff classified into that by Ragnarok. Well, what you're saying kinda requires you to drag Elf kicking and screaming all the way back into this somehow to testify in the kind of argument he avoided in the first place.

[Sanure]

Or I could just pm him and ask him the relevant questions so that he doesn't have to re-enter this clusterfuck

[Empiricist]

Right, and get a PM'd reply that no-one can check

Unless you get him to PM Smurf I suppose.

[Sanure]

I'll also have him send it to you and KJ as well.

[Empiricist]

Why me? I don't even play this anymore >__<

[Sanure]

Innocent bystander clause. You visit, thus we have you join the jury.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

Well, you dragged me back here.

My stance here is that I only permitted Akroma's lore overwrite because I assumed Sanure was asked first. Any other overwrites made were entirely her responsibility.

Sultanes, I permitted under the impression they were a smaller part of the void, not needing extensive retcons.

That is all.

[Empiricist]

So in other words, this:

I dunno, I thought Akroma said that the sultanes were just a bunch of assholes living on the fringes and everyone else including Void just sat around not giving a fuck.

[Sanure]

Seeing as I had no control over Void beings, I assume you mean Projeck and Rag. I'm currently trying to contact Rag.

[Sanure]

Anyways, I'm heading to bed for a few hours. I'll be back to respond to the inevitable shitstorm that will await me.

[Empiricist]

What shitstorm? All this established was that the status quo was the correct, just that the person in control (Projeck) somehow didn't know he was in control.