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All the time.

2 (13.3%)

Sometimes.

9 (60%)

Only when there's a new release.

2 (13.3%)

Never. ((get out))

2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[Empiricist]

I thought the adaptive armor only kicked in if they failed the speed check majorly. That's how I'm using them anyway, because their rules aren't set in stone

Actually, it only kicks in if their they don't fail their speed check majorly. So if they get hit but there isn't a massive difference between the SKL that hit and the SPD that failed, it activates.

Aya can't possess constructs, you silly goose.

Why not?

She can. She'd had to touch them which is an issue due to their high speed, roll magic versus resist and when she does so, their Resource Denial Unit will kick in and destroy all their equipment so that Aya is left in a body with no weapons or armor.

Rocks aren't robots though. They don't have things that make them able to be controlled. A construct does.

These constructs are even more minimalistic than robots. But I don't see why they could completely negate possession. They'll discourage it definitely seeing as a possessed unit is far weaker than a normal one, but should Aya roll high enough, it should be possible.

Rocks aren't robots though. They don't have things that make them able to be controlled. A construct does.

These things are basically moving sacks of magical wet concrete. As soon as you possessed one, if for some reason it didn't explode, you would not be able to do anything.

Actually, they're moving sacks of mundane concrete. They won't explode when possessed, but all their equipment gets destroyed. Aya would be able to move, she just wouldn't have really gained much for all the effort and risk.

Oh yeah, is there anything that you guys want me to do with modern Youkai when I get to writing them up?

Yeah, have gashadokuro effectively extinct due to them being hunted down and harvested upon being formed. It's not like anyone exactly misses mindless murderous giant stealthy skeletons and their composition is required in certain constructs. Such as WSC-GW and Null.

((the primary weapons take essence but the super strong ones don't? Also, how is an instant +5 damage block adaptive? I'd imagine adaptive armor to be more like a whenever you get hit by a physical attack, gain a +1 against physical damage until some max amount, if hit by magical damage gain +1 on mag, but that gets deduced from the physical stacks already accumulated, and vice versa. I do btw not particularly approve of the excessive minmaxing going on. 0 strength would mean that they not even be able to lift a weapon, while 0 mag would mean they'd probably be too unmagical to actually regen their essence))

((Their high powered weapons do not drain their essence because they come with their own power sources. If they drained essence, they would heavily damage the constructs each time they were used and the constructs would be able to fire them as many times as they wanted.

Adaptive Armor is called that because it adapts to the attack. That is, rather than weighing down the unit, increasing creation costs and reducing both SPD and SKL, the plates adapt their formation to block attacks. Its effectively a type of reactive armor. If it were so easy to create armor that just outright gains DEF and RES without drawback, then they would come pre-equipped with it at maximum possible value having had combat data from every single past unit incorporated into it; however, it is not that easy to make such a thing. To create such powerful armor that does not raise the cost of production too much that has no drawbacks and which is infantry portable whilst remaining highly reliable.

Allow me to explain their 0 STR or MAG: the PCs have equipment that has things such as +5 SPD, +3 STR or -10 to all damage with no limitations. I will do whatever is allowed to make them a threat and seeing as the GM approved them, I would not consider that stat deficiency as an issue. If it indeed is. Then just consider them to have some unstated equipment that boosts those stats to a workable value.

Also, their regeneration is not magic-based. Its part of their nature. Much like how a human of 0 MAG would still heal from cuts, bruises and whatnot, these constructs innately heal from their wounds. They are just far better at it due to them being designed specifically for combat.))

it's a shame about their overly ambitious eldricth design. When i read construct and adaptive armor, I was thinking along the lines of

Eldritch? They are far from eldritch. You don't want eldritch for this kind of thing. You don't want units designed to be fielded as entire armies to drive their purchasers insane with their very presence. Not to mention making it a bitch to customize their behavior.

At the end of the day, they are just animated, liquified construction material armed with supernaturally optimized equipment. They are strange, yes, but entirely comprehensible in human terms.

could belkelels minions possess them? Seeing as this is what they do, possess lifeless constructs?

Of course they can. Probably a better idea to posses ones they've purchased though unless you want all their equipment to self-destruct. Actually, no, it's better to just buy all their equipment which can be brought separately and possess a different construct. Otherwise they'd be paying a price that includes the cost of an AI they aren't even using.

[Akroma]

thing is, those guys take minmax at absurdity. with mana and health being one stat, you can argue as much as you want "but their skills take essence", it's not like the minimal amount (-1 for a normal attack, -2 for the huge +10 damage thing? haha, oh wow) actually has any impact in how fast they go down. It's just a way of exterminating a usualy very important stat, for a much more beneficial stat, with a fake drawback.

[Empiricist]

If you wish to complain about their essence drain, take it up with Smurf. Look at their sheet Akroma, do you see any figures on essence drain? No. I did not provide them because I did not feel confident in my ability to provide uncontroversial figures that still ensure the constructs act as a threat.

Also, they don't just lose essence from attacking. They lose essence for being in combat.

Yes they are min-maxed. Yes they use every single thing that fits them that has been approved and which can give them an advantage. Just like a PC. You are even able to complain about them because of one of their greatest weaknesses: meta-gaming. They're mass produced. They've been deployed in countless battlefields in some form or another. There is a reason why I posted their stats rather than PM'ing them when they were needed. Because it is absurdly easy to find out about them.

At no point did I ever consider essence and related mechanics to be true drawbacks. They were an overall advantage. As was intended. Their real weakness is in information warfare. Think about it. Before they even were deployed, you knew everything there is to know about them. With a bit of research, so will the PCs, if they don't already know. Furthermore, recall their trait Artificial Intelligence. Tell me, what would be an unfamiliar situation? Being deployed with no intel, literally on your enemy's door step with orders that vastly understated the amount of enemy units? That would indeed be the case. Take them out of what they know and they'll flounder. They're comparable to Sods from Einsteinian Roulette.

In any battle, if you manage to drastically alter the circumstances. They will struggle. Here, you don't even need to. Those two incompetents have done that for you. I make no apologies about nor will I hide the fact that they are indeed designed to pose a threat to PCs and should their user outwit the PCs enough, to have as much of a chance to perma-kill as possible. That being said, such an adversary is rather hard to come by. There are a myriad of ways to fuck up their deployment. To list a few: incorrect intel, assault with no prior recon, wrong domain, incorrect objectives, poor thresholds, thresholds that cause logic error, deployment in a rapidly changing environment, incorrect deployment sphere usage resulting in them being made out of flimsy materials, poor matchup (such as Physical versus technomancy or Supernatural in an antimagic field), unexpected units entering the combat area (easy for a human to differentiate civilians from enemies, hard for an AI to), specialized countermeasures, enemies being anti-creation units, enemies having Wall Street abilities, etc.

A behavioral flaw can and will be as fatal as a mechanical flaw.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Also, it would kind of make sense for me to do stuff with Youkai since I actually had one as a character.

...

Who? I actually have no idea who you're referring to.

Oh yeah, is there anything that you guys want me to do with modern Youkai when I get to writing them up?

Eh... Explain why they've been hidden all this time I guess? What are you going to do with them anyways?

[kj1225]

Akira. She wasn't truely one as she's an alien that share qualities with oni but still.

And that's mostly what I planned on explaining. I was thinking it would moatly fall under them either going into hiding or adapting. And what I plan... well, besides looking for places to slip in Touhou refernces I was just going to write up stuff for them as to expand the world a little.

[PrivateNomad]

I'm calling dibs on harpy lore

[Akroma]

what I am mostly complaining about is that it undermines what I've worked so hard on when making the rules. The number one thing I wanted to avoid at all costs were people who just came up with their own rules or mechanics "because my dude is different", and then try to pass up something clearly superior as fair somehow. In Essence the minmax you pulled gave them an extra 20-40 points of stats for free




and "being at a disadvantage in an unfamiliar situation" a) does not matter when the only situation you are in is combat. Incorrect reckon? These guys point at things and shoot, oh boy they care. and b) when that's something that really does apply to anyone. As far as the matchup goes, their minmax allows all relevant stats to be high, without actually creating any actual weakness to a certain matchup, just marginaly lowered effectiveness should the targets main defence fall into their attack mode. who cares about that, either you have 8 in mag and strength, or have 16 in one of them and do way more damage, even if the enemy has large defences in that part.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Akira. She wasn't truely one as she's an alien that share qualities with oni but still.

And that's mostly what I planned on explaining. I was thinking it would moatly fall under them either going into hiding or adapting. And what I plan... well, besides looking for places to slip in Touhou refernces I was just going to write up stuff for them as to expand the world a little.

Ah, I see. I guess Akira always registered more as an alien than a Youkai to me. _{She also barely got any screentime.}

Otherwise... Sounds good I guess? I don't really know what to say or contribute, but will gladly slip in some references as well.

I'm calling dibs on harpy lore

...

Congratulations?

[Empiricist]

I should note this: I cannot say for certain as I do not know the specific Objectives and Thresholds of these constructs, but I would say, chances are, they won't even attack someone like Aya or anyone else that their two deployers didn't mention, except in self defense. Obviously if Aya tries to touch one or they see someone aiming at them, they'll defend themselves, but until that happens they won't even consider them as hostiles.
How about rather than just cutting out great swathes of lore, people get a claim on lore that they've actually made? Want Youkai? Pantheons? Harpies? Write the lore first.

what I am mostly complaining about is that it undermines what I've worked so hard on when making the rules. The number one thing I wanted to avoid at all costs were people who just came up with their own rules or mechanics "because my dude is different", and then try to pass up something clearly superior as fair somehow. In Essence the minmax you pulled gave them an extra 20-40 points of stats for free

and "being at a disadvantage in an unfamiliar situation" a) does not matter when the only situation you are in is combat. Incorrect reckon? These guys point at things and shoot, oh boy they care. and b) when that's something that really does apply to anyone. As far as the matchup goes, their minmax allows all relevant stats to be high, without actually creating any actual weakness to a certain matchup, just marginaly lowered effectiveness should the targets main defence fall into their attack mode. who cares about that, either you have 8 in mag and strength, or have 16 in one of them and do way more damage, even if the enemy has large defences in that part.

I only used essence because of the shitstorm in v2 when Sanure had the person who just powered all his magic with HP. I could have literally just have had the Physical Specialists have no MP, only HP and just not have their firearms drain anything. They'd have more HP and not lose it from attack. It's a net loss this way.

A) Wrong. Dead wrong. If that's all they did, they wouldn't be there. They'd be off wandering around shooting birds and civilians rather than bothering with the PCs. Humans can recognize images easily, AI, not so much. It's like the Vietnam war if the soldiers only recognized the Vietcong if they started shooting and let them carry around guns in public without caring.

B) It will do little if their users are floundering. These units, they probably won't even shoot at anyone other than the people the two attackers specified. If Ashley didn't immediately attack, she could have literally walked up behind them with a megaphone and sung 'I'm about to stab you dumbfucks in the back' for five turns straight without them realizing that she about to stab them in the back. If Stella didn't throw something and breathed fire, chances are, those constructs wouldn't have even attacked her.

[kj1225]

Yeah, if I feel Akira need to be brought back in expect stats fitting of something that can smash a mountain.

But anyways, I'm thinking that the youkai from now will fall into three different categories. The ones that hid which are pretty much the same but... in hiding in places people wont find them, the ones that adapted and look more human like while being weaker (or characters in certain video games). And then there are the occasional ones that are none of these and instead rampage through towns and are generally nusiancies.

[Empiricist]

I would presume that generally, the ones that hid are the ones that are creatures in their own right, the ones living with humans are the ones that used to be human or interact a lot with humans and that the nuisances are the ones born out of vengeance, dark magic and the like?

[USEC_OFFICER]

Sounds good to me. Though obviously the occasional ones that go on rampages are incredibly rare. _{Also, inb4 ZUN is a Youkai.}

...

I guess I could make up a few hiding places for Youkai if need be. One has to be underneath the crust of the earth for obvious reasons.

[Empiricist]

I would imagine so. Since anything formed out of the fury of the fallen wouldn't be very prevalent when the wars currently being fought are more about skirmishes than World War type stuff.

[kj1225]

I would presume that generally, the ones that hid are the ones that are creatures in their own right, the ones living with humans are the ones that used to be human or interact a lot with humans and that the nuisances are the ones born out of vengeance, dark magic and the like?

Generally yes. Of course, there are cases that are special but yeah, that sounds about right.

Sounds good to me. Though obviously the occasional ones that go on rampages are incredibly rare. _{Also, inb4 ZUN is a Youkai.}

...

I guess I could make up a few hiding places for Youkai if need be. One has to be underneath the crust of the earth for obvious reasons.

ZUN is definitely a Youkai. Or multiple people. Either or.
And sure, I was kind of hoping people would either come up with what they want to see in Youkai and tell me so I could write something up for it or toss me some spare writing to see if I could patch in. You know, make it like the group we are.

[Akroma]

A) has no mechanical impact. they attack what the GM tells them to attack

B) then why do they even dodge any attacks other than the targets at all? if their attention and focus are that narrow, then for example they have not recognised stuff like hilda morphing into a weapon and firing at them. Once again, there is no mechanical impact at all.

this is why I hate minmaxers, they go into lengths of explaining various strengths, but leave flaws entirely unmentioned and to the GMs imagination. Because simply, GMs don't keep such things in mind if not properly spelled out.


but why am I even argueing with you, you don't even play the game, what are you doing here besides watching us for your entertainment and trying to porpagate your lore into mattering when literaly you are not part of the game. It's like we are some kinda play on a stage for you and you shout from the audience for us to change the script to your liking - to a somewhat disruptive extend, as you keep encouraging everyone to bend and change rules and generaly break the game. Yes, guns running of skill makes sense, but no, ranged fighters having a single huge skill for both hitting and dealing damage, while melee fighters need two stats is simply unbalanced. No, a one-shot rifle that shoots through walls and explodes organs and has a lock-on mode that unhinges elemental mechanics is not okay, neither is a stone that allows us to turn anything into anything with utterly arbitrary limitations. It's a huge relief people forgot about those things. Even with the nerfs to the snowball potential of the fatigue katana, it still runs on rules entirely different to any other, and looking at the past fights, its still one of the most powerful things in the game

sorry for the rant, but this needed to get out. I am sick and tired of you hovering around the game nudging and poking and commenting but not even bothering to play, just watching and telling everyone to use cheatcodes.