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[flabort]

Why make your appearance the core of deciding who to vote for?

OK, quick post before I go to bed tonight. I'll address your other questions first thing when I get up. (Remind me if I post and don't address them)
I'm a terrible town player. OK? I'm doing as bad as I did in GBoO, doing as badly as I did in Seer's Academy, as badly as I did in that Vanilla Werewolf game who's name I forget (The equivalent of Beginner's Mafia here). Only one of those were on this forum, but the point is clear. I'm terrible. I just don't know the good questions to ask, I'm too concerned with my own survival, and I cannot keep track of each person. I get stuff blurred together. Despite this, my gut is usually right, but saying my gut told me so is a sure way to get my case dismissed.
I tried to change that this game. Incorporate some of the game I learned as scum and incorporate it into my town game. Confidence. Risk taking/claiming. Actually pursuing the guy my gut says did it.
But I'm still the same town player at heart, and that town player is far too concerned with staying alive long enough to build his puzzle, and by being too concerned about staying alive, I'm too concerned about the way people see me. If I royally screw myself over by voting the wrong person? I'm too afraid I'll get killed for it. Back in GitP forums, where not being part of the lynch wagon was considered scummy, it meant keeping quite and voting for who everyone else was voting for. Here, where a large wagon is considered a scum plot, it means more carefully considering each potential target.

So my vote was a survival instinct.

[notquitethere]

Imperial

Imperial Guardsman, if you had a kill, who would you use it on?

ZU or Jim, most likely.

Uh huh, and why? And why aren't you voting them?


Persus

Well, I'm voting him because he said some questionable things at the end of day 1 and his gut-instinct and nothing else Toaster vote. In spite of deciding his spreadsheet method is useless, he hasn't really been questioning things he finds odd, instead choosing to rolefish and call for a massclaim, which could be ascribed to him being inexperienced or him trying to get useful information for his team.

Remember he is a self-identifying puzzle-solver, though of course he could use that as a shield for trying to get away with asking more than is good for town. Still, I see a certain kind of earnestness in his cries for an early mass claim. But you don't?


Flabort

I'll need to reread day 2 so far, but at a quick glance:
Toaster: Seems passive where I expect him to be aggressive, and aggressive where none is due. High content posts that are fluffier than mine. Quite possibly Cult Leader, imo.
Jim Groovester: Arguably justified, but his levels of "upset" are overblown. It may be his character to call people "DIPSHITTARD"s, but he seems to be using that to pretend to care, rather than genuinely caring.
Toonyman: A lower post count than anyone but the replacements. He seems to show up to reply to everything, and then disappears for long periods of time. However, most of his content has been reading pro town.
Shall I continue?

Your scum read on Toony isn't particularly scummy. What do you think of Zombie Urist and TheWetSheep?


Toony

I have actually been a Cult Sexton in Supernatural 2. I remember being pretty open about my sightings, so I wouldn't trust ZU's alignment just because he claimed, but he's most probably a real sexton.

Noted.


Sheep

How do you parse "Too Townie" from "he's hiding under a bunch of content that could be done by scum as well as town"?

You never adequately explained exactly how I was hiding under helpful content.

I think I got everything. The first post is OK, making a case on Jiokuy. The second one is a bit more at Jiokuy and a softball at IG. The third is a bunch of questions without pressure or substance behind them. The fourth doesn't really contain any pressure either - it's mostly response. So yeah, there's not much there.

I'm sorry my performance disappoints you. Is there a case here?

Sheep, yeah I suspect [ZU] a small amount less but I always do when someone makes a conscious effort to up their game.

Blowing off my question like this comes off as not caring much about the actual substance of your case, but keeping it as a reserve to go after.

Am I blowing off your question? I think ZU is suspicious, until we hang someone who's genuinely scum then it's hard to get a solid read on anyone.

And now you're concerned his dubious Sexton claim be taken seriously. I want to hear his clarifications before I take this claim with more than a pinch of salt. We've killed one murderous third party and there's been no night kills so a ghoul is highly improbably. No one's been resurrected, so a town priest raising Jiokuy is out the question, so what else could have moved the body? The only explanation I can think of is if a scum priest raised Jiokuy and the resurrection failed, destroying the body and any kind of scum team can do that.

I'm not saying it should be taken as definite truth, but should at least be considered. And you didn't say anything about disbelieving it when you addressed him about it.

I've since come back round to thinking he's probably telling the truth, but you'll note in the post you linked to I was somewhat sceptical about his account.


Jim

Are these reasons why you think zombie urist is fake claiming?

If your answer is yes, then I will ask: why would a sexton ever fake claim?

I thought it all very unlikely at first but now I've given it a bit more thought, I think you're on to something here. Zombie Urist probably is telling the truth: his claim could easily be countered by a warlock on Day 3, and as such either we have a necromancer or ghoul (in which case, we'll find out tonight) or a scum priest failed to resurrect the werebear. The latter is the best option naturally.

Is there anybody whose reads you like?

Mine, of course.


Toaster

Very much so not pictured:  you denying the accusation.  So are you a Necromancer or a Ghoul?

I am not a Necromancer. I am not a ghoul. If you don't think I'm scum, then why are you voting me.

Yes but you plainly know that 1 is false, a why would a scum player (let alone a cultist) want to preserve the life of a killer? (Maybe to night-convert them? But Meph confirmed last night that you can't convert monster hunters, and so my guess is serial killers likewise cannot be converted.)

What if the scum in question is NK-immune?  And "last night?"  Where is this?

A whole team of NK-immune scum? Pull the other one. Also, thanks for pointing it out: I meant 'last game'.

I notice in your reads list that damn near everyone is some flavor of "low quality of reads."  Do you think that this means your standards are too high?  Personally, I find it difficult to maintain high-quality reads on high numbers of players.

Sure, my standards are high. But I wouldn't say too high. Note, I don't think everyone is scum just because they haven't formed very good reads. I fully expect everyone's reads to improve on successive days.

Since that's an ask, Jack does indeed appear fairly townie; I have no issues with his play.  Jim was light D1, but then he was busy IRL.  Today... he's really slow to start [1], but he's starting to pick up speed[2].  I'll give him the weekend to see how things change- if he keeps it up he shouldn't be a problem.  Tiruin hardly gave any content to digest and I can't read her anyway, and Hapah hasn't posted enough to cement a read; nothing of what he has said has stood out.  Sheep has gotten a couple eyebrows raised (see top of this post.) 

Noted.


I'm not going to be able to guarantee posting over the rest of the weekend, but should be back on Sunday. In case I fall off a cliff or something, I'm most happy for Zombie Urist to be lynched today. Worth noting that the only people he's tried to lynch in the whole game are people he's since claimed are 3rd parties. This is particularly suspect in a potential cult game.

If you think I'm a Necromancer or Ghoul then who do you think is actually scum, ZU?

[Imperial Guardsman]

Imperial

Imperial Guardsman, if you had a kill, who would you use it on?

ZU or Jim, most likely.

Uh huh, and why? And why aren't you voting them?

Waiting for the right time but now the time is right. ZU

[Jack A T]

Guardsman: How do you judge when the time is right for your vote?  What makes this the right time?

[Imperial Guardsman]

Guardsman: How do you judge when the time is right for your vote?  What makes this the right time?

Its kinda something internal, It just felt like the wrong time before.

[Toaster]

NQT:

Toaster

Very much so not pictured:  you denying the accusation.  So are you a Necromancer or a Ghoul?

I am not a Necromancer. I am not a ghoul. If you don't think I'm scum, then why are you voting me.

Who said I don't think you are scum?

Yes but you plainly know that 1 is false, a why would a scum player (let alone a cultist) want to preserve the life of a killer? (Maybe to night-convert them? But Meph confirmed last night that you can't convert monster hunters, and so my guess is serial killers likewise cannot be converted.)

What if the scum in question is NK-immune?  And "last night?"  Where is this?

A whole team of NK-immune scum? Pull the other one. Also, thanks for pointing it out: I meant 'last game'.

Doesn't have to be the whole team.  Look at the last two Vampire Cult games; each time the Vampire Lord had one ally to start with.  What if it's a Knight?

And oops, noted.

I notice in your reads list that damn near everyone is some flavor of "low quality of reads."  Do you think that this means your standards are too high?  Personally, I find it difficult to maintain high-quality reads on high numbers of players.

Sure, my standards are high. But I wouldn't say too high. Note, I don't think everyone is scum just because they haven't formed very good reads. I fully expect everyone's reads to improve on successive days.

If (nearly) everyone has poor leads, how do you discern poor townie reads from scum?



Jack:

Toaster: Do you think NQT is a necromancer or ghoul?

Short answer is somewhere between "I don't know" and "I don't care."

Long answer is that it's tough to say.  Necromancers have only one way to be played; they need a zombie before they can do anything else.  Any Necromancer that understood their role would be zombifiying the first corpse that came along- the fact that no one would want to res Jiouky is just icing on the cake.  A ghoul, on the other hand, can just go crazy with their kill, or eat corpses to be more precise and surgical with their kills.  NQT is the kind of person I would expect to take the latter route.  Given that, the fact that a corpse is gone doesn't tell me much, except that if it is a ghoul, the flavor is in line with what I would expect out of NQT.

To the town, it doesn't make a big difference except that a Necromancer is harder to pin down via night actions.


Flabort:

Despite this, my gut is usually right, but saying my gut told me so is a sure way to get my case dismissed.

It's okay if you're a not-great scum hunter, and if you want to listen to your gut, that's fine.  Just don't let your gut lead to bias in your reads; if you think someone is scum, read their posts.  If you find scum evidence to reinforce your gut, great, but don't let your gut bias your brain reads.

[Hapah]

Quick post!

ZU: What do you think the best fake-claim for a Necromancer or Ghoul would be?

Also,

zombie urist: Could you please just give a summary of your updated attack on Persus, with the strongest pieces of evidence?  Nobody needs or wants to hear about how he said he wrote around 8 sentences when attacking IG and really used exactly 6 sentences.  Key points with the post-Tracker material accounted for is all I want.

I'm certain at this point that NQT is at least an SK. Especially with Jiokuy's body being gone. I will also note that NQT doesn't deny doing anything to the body.

That's all well and good, but we've almost definitely got a cult running around and you're prioritizing getting rid of serial killers over getting rid of the cult leader.  I could sort of understand this vote if you felt you had nothing else to go on, but you just posted three posts explaining, post-by-post, how Persus was scummy.

Jack's right on this, that's an awful lot of effort if you were planning to go after someone else anyway. Why's your vote on NQT instead of Persus, when you went very nearly line-by-line to pick apart the latter?

Persus:

-snip- ... and we should all talk to Tiruin (now Hapah) more.

So why didn't you talk to me?

Flabort:

Because my gut honestly believes toaster to be scum. If I put my vote on the current wagon it would look scummy, if I put my vote on ZU it would look scummy, if I put my vote back on Jim, it would look scummy, if I put my vote on IG, it would just look plain dumb, if I put my vote on Tirun (now Hapah), it would look like I'm lazy, etc.
My only choices were Ottofar and Toaster, and I don't feel like Ottofar is as scum as Toaster. Ottofar may be scum, but Toaster is the scum leader.

Why is looking scummy such an important consideration for where you place your vote?

Narrowing your scum targets based on who you can vote without looking back is incredibly self-serving and not at all a town play.

This. If you can reasonably defend your vote then almost nothing can make it "look scummy". Either you've got something to hang your vote on or you don't; and if you don't you dig around until you do.

Spoiler: For Flabort (click to show/hide)

It's okay if you're a not-great scum hunter, and if you want to listen to your gut, that's fine.  Just don't let your gut lead to bias in your reads; if you think someone is scum, read their posts.  If you find scum evidence to reinforce your gut, great, but don't let your gut bias your brain reads.

This is good advice. You can't get someone lynched on your gut feeling alone, but it can be useful to decide who to investigate.

IG

IG: Why were those magical resources that you needed protected, why couldn't you access them without bloodshed? If you don't know, ask Meph and get back to me.

They were extremely powerful.

So, just to make sure I've got this right: you killed a man to steal artifacts of great power, came to a font of magical power (the leyline) which you claim also has ties to the Cult, and you plan to use what I can only assume is unstable blood magic to open a portal to the realm of a sleeping god. And once this is done, you plan to kill it somehow? With flabort's help, I believe you said: but I imagine the sage as a weak old man with no magic powers. How's that gonna work?

[notquitethere]

Pfp

Toast, you looked to be voting me accusing me of being a 3rd party. Thus implying you don't think I'm scum. Make your case clear.

I'm not basing my scum reads primarily on player's reads: those reads just present starting points for cases and a judge of player engagement which is the strongest town tell.

[Ottofar]

Sorry, midsummer celebration things. Will post tomorrow.

[Imperial Guardsman]

IG

IG: Why were those magical resources that you needed protected, why couldn't you access them without bloodshed? If you don't know, ask Meph and get back to me.

They were extremely powerful.

So, just to make sure I've got this right: you killed a man to steal artifacts of great power, came to a font of magical power (the leyline) which you claim also has ties to the Cult, and you plan to use what I can only assume is unstable blood magic to open a portal to the realm of a sleeping god. And once this is done, you plan to kill it somehow? With flabort's help, I believe you said: but I imagine the sage as a weak old man with no magic powers. How's that gonna work?

Its a sleeping, depowered god. Me and flabort can kill it easily.

[Jim Groovester]

My read on [ToonyMan] softened overnight, and I'm less sure now.

But whyyyyyyyyyyyyy??????????????

What made you say, 'You know, ToonyMan isn't as bad as I thought despite having voted him.'?

Him surviving to D3 or his power revealing scum?

The power revealing scum.

stuff

Don't beat yourself up about being bad, because there are enough people in mafia games who will do that for you.

The sooner you make your primary goal finding and lynching scum instead of survival the better. Even if you screw up at least your mindset is in the right place.

[flabort]

Flabort, give me the names of three scummy players and the reason for their scummitude in order of scummitudinacity.

I'll need to reread day 2 so far, but at a quick glance:
Toaster: Seems passive where I expect him to be aggressive, and aggressive where none is due. High content posts that are fluffier than mine. Quite possibly Cult Leader, imo.
Jim Groovester: Arguably justified, but his levels of "upset" are overblown. It may be his character to call people "DIPSHITTARD"s, but he seems to be using that to pretend to care, rather than genuinely caring.

Flabort: Please provide evidence backing your Toaster read.[1]  In addition, what makes you think Jim is pretending to care (provide evidence, please)? [2]

Because my gut honestly believes toaster to be scum. If I put my vote on the current wagon it would look scummy, if I put my vote on ZU it would look scummy, if I put my vote back on Jim, it would look scummy, if I put my vote on IG, it would just look plain dumb, if I put my vote on Tirun (now Hapah), it would look like I'm lazy, etc.
My only choices were Ottofar and Toaster, and I don't feel like Ottofar is as scum as Toaster. Ottofar may be scum, but Toaster is the scum leader.

NQT seemed scummy at the time, because half the players seemed to have some sort of minor or major case on him at the time. I saw no evidence to that. I felt Jim was scummy at the time, but no one else was able or willing to find evidence to the fact, and my evidence was poor. Jiokuy, was the leading wagon at the time, so seemed scummy to others. But I again didn't see the evidence to this, and he flipped SK, not scum.

See above for why Toony is maybe scum.

So, just to be clear:
*You consider Ottofar and Toaster your only choices for voting.
*This is because of how other votes would make you look.
*After cutting out all the targets that would make you look bad, you had to choose between Ottofar and Toaster. [3]
*You determined that Toaster is the scum leader because...um...
*...something...
*...gut.[3]
*You want people to hunt Jim for you.[4]
*NQT looked scummy because people thought he looked scummy.
*You think Toony might be scum because he doesn't post often, but you think his content is pro-town, and he's not on your list of possible vote targets.

...Explain.  Why so certain Toaster's the leader, especially without evidence? [3]  Why complain about people not doing your job and hunting Jim for you?  [4]

Toaster You said yesterday that my scum hunting methodology is flawed. You probably still think so. How can you prove that yours is not? You were voting Toonyman yesterday, for "pretending to commit", or "not committing". The way I see it you have been doing more or less the same. I don't mean committing to a lynch, but committing to your stance.

Can you provide any evidence for the significant point you have here (the lack of commitment)?  Also, how is the issue of whether Toaster can prove he's the perfect scumhunter or not a relevant issue? [5]

As a side note, please read Bring Someone Else's Role.  Massclaims are not the magical super-scumstopping tools you argue they are. [6]

[1] In order of least damning to most damning:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Something about This Post feels off.
In this post, he does more scum hunting than any previous post... in one sentence asking IG about me.
This post shows him being somewhat noncaring about if IG dies or gets killed. Here, is a continuation of that. He's primarily focused on IG by this point; most of his questions have been to IG, most of his clarifications have been to IG, and he would not care if IG died, or would even vig him himself; yet would not lynch him.
Here, he appears to have content, but is just describing previous games and calling IG lazy. Here is same. More here. And the post this excerpt comes from is also the same:

Being helpful does not mean being townie.  Anyone can go and gather up information that's not actually relevant to the current game; helpful, sure, but it doesn't find scum.

NQT considers Toaster's reads to be unhelpful. And is justified as saying so.
By this post, he's still pursuing a pointless line of questioning. I believe it was him who said:

I think the biggest problem of D1 play is people tend to get focused on the first issue that comes up and drive a lynch off that, instead of teasing out side arguments and really digging in to that first one and seeing if it's truly a lynchworthy case.  Scum, of course, are typically happy to see that happen.

NQT justifies my hunt, or at least agrees that Toaster leans scum, here:

Toaster
Toaster, despite wading heavily into the Imperial affair, has only placed one vote in the game and that's on me. I addressed his points and he had made posts after that, even saying in one that he was most likely going to switch to Imperial. Now the latter has all but full-claimed. He's spent a lot of time pumping IG; I'd like to see him do some real scum hunting. Slight scum read here.

Here, he doesn't deny that he's trying to get NQT and IG lynched:

Who are you trying to kill?: NQT, 4mask, IG. You are so desperate to get one of them killed, consequences be damned.
You're not actually that desperate, but I'm pretty sure IG is pro-town at the moment, and the other two lean town for me.

Bullshit.  Quote me trying to get 4mask killed.

Jim, whom I also suspect, says something suspicious in this post:

Toaster - Looks like typical Toaster stuff to me. The usual strong day game. Null read.

Why would he say strong day game, which should lead to a town lean, but then say null? I would argue that Toaster hasn't even had a strong game so far. Ottofar must have noticed this too, based on This post.

[2]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Here he's too tired to care. Not pretending to care yet, but we'll get to that.

Alright, I've skimmed the game. So, the big thing that happened is Imperial Guardsman doesn't know how to play mafia.
-snip-
When I'm up for it I'll dig deeper but I think it's a good idea to get the conversation started. I've ignored RVS questions posed to me because meh whatever so if you really want them answered please tell me.

He needs more time, I understand. But he ignores all RVS questions. As I recall, RVS is important to "get the conversation started", which is a "good idea". So he doesn't really care about the conversation. There weren't even many RVS questions to answer! See the spoiler below.

Okay my read is done. I should be up to speed on all the happenings.

-snip-

I think you were convinced you were going to be lynched, and so you fakeclaimed a third party role in order to prevent yourself from getting lynched.

Now, I haven't played very much with Imperial Guardsman, or at all, but does he seem like the kind of player who has the mental capability of pulling off a third-party fakeclaim with any degree of competency?

Your casual dismissal of his claim makes me suspect.

-snip-

Jim You have yet to post anything relevant or, dare I say it, new. You jumped on the IG conversation when it was cooling down, and answered some quick questions (mostly with the answer of being too busy to answer). Do you have anything relevant or new to say?

You don't say. It's almost like I have not been physically present to actually do anything with this game.

Who gives a crud if a conversation about a topic is winding down if I still have questions? I'm going to ask them anyway.

You skimmed. You posted. TWICE. You had a day to read after the skim. You were, for all intents and purposes, "physically present" by the time I accused you. If you weren't by the point I said this, then it's because you don't actually care about being present. And you casually dismiss my question. You had nothing relevant or new to say, but didn't say so.
As you said, "Your casual dismissal of [this] makes me suspect".

blub

ladies and gentlemen
dariush 2.0

How can I be Dariush when I haven't called anybody a shitlord or told them to die in a fire?

I shall repeat: I WAS FUCKING ABSENT YOU DIPSHITARD

"DIPSHITARD" is awfully close to "Shitlord". Maybe even worse, if not just as bad.

Spoiler: JIM! READ HERE (click to show/hide)

As I said in the spoiler above, there aren't many RVS questions towards Jim.
Jim, I'd like to to answer these questions.

Jim Groovester What style of play does a Supernatural game best suit?

Jim Groovester If there is two anti-town teams or a serial killer, what would your response to hunt them be?

Jim:  Let's assume you're a Vampire Lord and it's N2.  A couple less "townie" players have claimed strong roles.  Would you base your conversion attempt to pick up a powerful role, or would you rather get a strong town player?

[3] Yeah, and I didn't really feel that Ottofar was scum. In fact, rereading, a lot of his opinions fall in line with mine. See also: Jim/Toaster alliance. I had previously voiced my concerns over Toaster, and put together a (admittedly weak) case on him; the fact that I had previously withdrawn my vote on him does not negate the fact that at my core I still suspected him.

[4] No, but nobody else has done any hunting on him, and I had little time remaining for that post. So I was lazy.

[5] In post self quote:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here, he appears to have content, but is just describing previous games and calling IG lazy. Here is same. More here. And the post this excerpt comes from is also the same:

Being helpful does not mean being townie.  Anyone can go and gather up information that's not actually relevant to the current game; helpful, sure, but it doesn't find scum.

By this post, he's still pursuing a pointless line of questioning. I believe it was him who said:

I think the biggest problem of D1 play is people tend to get focused on the first issue that comes up and drive a lynch off that, instead of teasing out side arguments and really digging in to that first one and seeing if it's truly a lynchworthy case.  Scum, of course, are typically happy to see that happen.

[6] Funny. I had read that just a couple weeks ago. And they didn't really act upon the mass claim when it came out. They could have at least questioned people on the truthfulness of their claims (besides Darvi/Wall of Flesh). And this isn't a BYOR variant, and I'm pretty sure I could do better. Hmph, not like anyone would believe me, though.

[7]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

Wow that's a weak case. Unvote.

I agree with you that your case on Toaster was weak. Why did you vote him in the first place?

Toaster, maybe, but my case on him is too weak to pursue.

So you suspect Toaster but you don't have enough dirt on him to justify a vote? Or is it because you fear reprisal if you do vote him? From your posts it sounds more like the latter.

I have to say I'm neutral on the NQT vs Toaster argument: if someone got mislynched, I'd feel it would be partially my fault, but mostly the fault of whomever I suspect of being scum and/or is voting the lynchee.
Meaning, I agree with NQT that everyone has a hand in mislynching, but not everyone is quite as to blame as the people who push everyone else into the lynch.

I don't understand why you are weighing in.

-snip-

Toaster - Looks like typical Toaster stuff to me. The usual strong day game. Null read.

Seems like an awful lot of defense towards Toaster. This is perhaps the most suspicious Toaster/Jim interaction post there is, actually. I honestly believe that Toaster and Jim are probably scum buddies from this post alone. Or share a quickchat at the very least.

Flabort:

Because my gut honestly believes toaster to be scum. If I put my vote on the current wagon it would look scummy, if I put my vote on ZU it would look scummy, if I put my vote back on Jim, it would look scummy, if I put my vote on IG, it would just look plain dumb, if I put my vote on Tirun (now Hapah), it would look like I'm lazy, etc.
My only choices were Ottofar and Toaster, and I don't feel like Ottofar is as scum as Toaster. Ottofar may be scum, but Toaster is the scum leader.

Why is looking scummy such an important consideration for where you place your vote?

Narrowing your scum targets based on who you can vote without looking back is incredibly self-serving and not at all a town play.

This. If you can reasonably defend your vote then almost nothing can make it "look scummy". Either you've got something to hang your vote on or you don't; and if you don't you dig around until you do.

Spoiler: For Flabort (click to show/hide)

It's okay if you're a not-great scum hunter, and if you want to listen to your gut, that's fine.  Just don't let your gut lead to bias in your reads; if you think someone is scum, read their posts.  If you find scum evidence to reinforce your gut, great, but don't let your gut bias your brain reads.

This is good advice. You can't get someone lynched on your gut feeling alone, but it can be useful to decide who to investigate.

Thank you for the advice.

Flabort

I'll need to reread day 2 so far, but at a quick glance:
Toaster: Seems passive where I expect him to be aggressive, and aggressive where none is due. High content posts that are fluffier than mine. Quite possibly Cult Leader, imo.
Jim Groovester: Arguably justified, but his levels of "upset" are overblown. It may be his character to call people "DIPSHITTARD"s, but he seems to be using that to pretend to care, rather than genuinely caring.
Toonyman: A lower post count than anyone but the replacements. He seems to show up to reply to everything, and then disappears for long periods of time. However, most of his content has been reading pro town.
Shall I continue?

Your scum read on Toony isn't particularly scummy. What do you think of Zombie Urist and TheWetSheep?

ZU: Eh, he/she doesn't really ping "scum" to me. He/She seems to be maybe active lurking, but she's a step above Toonyman. AKA "Not particularly scummy".
TheWetSheep: I don't understand how anyone finds him scummy yet, sorry. Has a case on NQT, but half the players seem to have some sort of half-assed case on NQT, so that's a "null tell". Has a case on Jim, whom I and Ottofar also suspect.

stuff

Don't beat yourself up about being bad, because there are enough people in mafia games who will do that for you.

The sooner you make your primary goal finding and lynching scum instead of survival the better. Even if you screw up at least your mindset is in the right place.

In the foreseeable future, I predict you are one of those people. Due to the evidence I am posting above in this post. But thanks for the encouragement.

Ottofar: I don't mean to buddy you, but I'm glad to find our suspicion points in the same direction, Otto. What can you contribute to, or critique about, my suspicion of Toaster and Jim?

TWS: Same question. What can you say about what I've said about Toaster and Jim?

[Jack A T]

Flabort: Alright, good, you have evidence now and you're trying to improve.  I'll refrain from commenting on most of it (it will be more interesting to see how Jim and Toaster respond), but one bit of advice needs to be given: pointing out repeatedly that you're not the only one to see Toaster as scummy doesn't actually help your case against Toaster.

Referring to points other players made that you agree with (like you did the first time you mentioned NQT's thoughts in your Toaster evidence) is fine (though do make sure it's not your whole case).  Noting that others suspect the same player you do (like you did with your second NQT mention and your Ottofar mention) is not, however, an effective justification of your vote.  It doesn't show us that Toaster is acting against the town.  It doesn't show Toaster doing anything wrong.  All it shows is that others claim to suspect Toaster.

Imagine me using zombie urist's old statement of agreement with me about NQT as evidence against NQT.  That attack would be laughed off, and rightfully so: it doesn't show NQT doing anything wrong.

Beyond that, I'll just reiterate the advice already given: the target matters a lot less than the justification when looking at the scumminess of a vote, and gut reads are fine starts, but they're not evidence.
Toaster: Thanks for the answer, though that wasn't exactly what I meant by the question.  (basically, the intent was to ask whether you thought NQT was one of the SK types you referred to or not)

Is NQT more likely an SK, or main scumteam member?  Is there anyone you suspect more of being on the main scumteam, or is NQT your top suspect for both SK and main scum?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim, whom I also suspect, says something suspicious in this post:

Toaster - Looks like typical Toaster stuff to me. The usual strong day game. Null read.

Why would he say strong day game, which should lead to a town lean, but then say null? I would argue that Toaster hasn't even had a strong game so far. Ottofar must have noticed this too, based on This post.

This is not a contradiction. Players with significant skill and experience can play a scum game that's indistinguishable from their town game. Toaster is one of these players. That Toaster was playing his usual day game, at least as far as I observed, told me nothing about his alignment, hence the null read.

Also, bringing up that post by Ottofar does not support your point because Ottofar did not find whatever it was he was talking about, and dropped it.

He needs more time, I understand. But he ignores all RVS questions. As I recall, RVS is important to "get the conversation started", which is a "good idea". So he doesn't really care about the conversation. There weren't even many RVS questions to answer! See the spoiler below.

Nobody cares about RVS questions when the game proceeds past the RVS. I ignored them because once people start voting fo' rizzle, which people had started doing, RVS questions become irrelevant.

When you noticed this did you also notice that you are the only person to actually care that I did not answer those questions?

You skimmed. You posted. TWICE. You had a day to read after the skim. You were, for all intents and purposes, "physically present" by the time I accused you. If you weren't by the point I said this, then it's because you don't actually care about being present. And you casually dismiss my question.

This is dumb.

Making good posts in forum mafia takes a long time. At least for me. If it doesn't for you it's probably because your posts aren't good. In any case, after I skimmed the thread, it took me the better part of a day to read the thread in enough detail to get a bead on what was actually happening and get reads and ask questions.

Saying I don't care about being present at that point is insulting. Less than twenty-four hours after I reported I was back, I had a decent post up.

Get real. I'm not pretending shit in this game.

You had nothing relevant or new to say, but didn't say so.

What.

You quoted (and trimmed) a whole post of stuff I have to say, and then claim I had nothing new or relevant to say?

That's ridiculous.

"DIPSHITARD" is awfully close to "Shitlord". Maybe even worse, if not just as bad.

I shall reiterate that being a jerk doesn't make me scum.

Jim, I'd like to to answer these questions.

But why? They are completely irrelevant now. It's Day 2. Answering RVS questions from early in Day 1 is not productive or informative at this point.

[4] No, but nobody else has done any hunting on him, and I had little time remaining for that post. So I was lazy.

This is factually not true since there have been several people who have voted me over the course of the game. You mention several of them in your post.

Seems like an awful lot of defense towards Toaster. This is perhaps the most suspicious Toaster/Jim interaction post there is, actually. I honestly believe that Toaster and Jim are probably scum buddies from this post alone. Or share a quickchat at the very least.

You are mistaken in thinking it was about Toaster. It was actually about you. Toaster is perfectly able to defend himself without needing me to come to his rescue. These questions were about you and your weak cases.

Also, your post was horrible to respond to, by the way.

[ToonyMan]

@Meph:

@MOD MEPH:
Could a Werebear be converted by a cult or something?

Attempting to convert 3rd parties can have unusual effects.

I see...


@Toaster:

Toony:  Ever since your first post of the day where you vote ZU, you've done pretty much nothing besides answer questions.  What are you doing to get ZU lynched?  Who else would you not mind seeing lynched?

It's true, my pressure is fairly light. I'm only asking him about one question a post. He's getting votes from other players too, and he is up on the chopping block so I'm interested in how he'll react.

Ottofar has simply been away so I'm not sure I could give a fair opinion of him.
Imperial Guardsman is annoying me, and I could easily suspect him as to the reason why Jiokuy's corpse disappeared (thanks to ZU's claim).
Flabort is crazy, but I would avoid a lynch for now until we see what's up with IG.
Notquitethere has some oddities, but I don't see why he would bus ZU. Depending on how the day plays out I may change my mind and decide IG or NQT are better lynches. ZU has already claimed after all.
Persus13 is another choice because some of his logic is...odd. I don't have any direct suspicions of him however, so don't expect to see a vote coming from my direction.