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[Boltgun]

Great feedback, the place of the succubi in the world and their inventory will be reviewed while making the move to 0.40. There is much to change and the race should be more tied to the HF. Their theme however will be difficult to combine.

There is a possibility in the future, depending of what features MDF receives, that you'll have the option to make all the succubi fire immune. That should solve issue with children, and make the game easier.

Quite frankly, children have already been greatly reduced by the male/female ratio and making the race sterile will bring more issues down the road, so that will depend how the race lives after the world activation.

I'll probably take out Stygian pitchforks as a ranged weapon, it causes bugs with hunters and there is indeed no point to bother with that when you throw fireballs. They would instead cause syndromes on hit and be joined by upgraded blades and whips.

There should be more uses for prisoners indeed. Tormenting them like demons usually do or sending them to hell for resources. I'll was looking for a better way to capture them and did not realize that other races may already have such weapons.

As materials go, the problem is that MDF have a ton of inorganics already so I need a good concept of a material because I go creating a new one. I have been thinking of changing mundane metals into corrupted version. But where there is place to explore would be using slade, flesh and leather trough new workshops.

I'd rather not have armor with low cover suddenly get high cover because "high fantasy". Low coverage would also be a way to balance the succubi high speed and powers. I'll prevent corsets and breastplates from stacking too. As for SHAPED, we must first see how DF2014 handles it because in 0.34 it's very annoying for the military. Otherwise the same

The most important thing is to redesign the race's theme. It currently lack a connexion between their origins and what they became, and their goals are too vague.

[Illogical_Blox]

Just my thing on the children:

Incubi (in mythology) would use succubi to steal *stuff* from men and impregnate women to... create new succubi I believe? So, how about "infecting" prisoners to create young succubi?

[Meph]

An all-fireimmune race that naturally attacks with fireballs, while trying to convert prisoners sounds pretty good. Either you attack, but destroy resources (the surface, wood, clothing, and the attackers themselves), or you set up traps and fight passively, to ensure you get enough prisoners to convert.

Getting to the magma lake and/or HFS should bring big rewards, like healing baths in magma or freeing the HFS as allies (which for example still could kill your pets/caravans that enter the map), or adding some reactions for adamantine-like metals made of slade, so you end up with slade armor and slade weapons (minus the high weight of course).

Either way means that digging too deep would reap rewards instead of dangers. The dangers for succubi are on the surface, with the pesky hero-invaders and flameable materials everywhere.

[Boltgun]

An all-fireimmune race that naturally attacks with fireballs, while trying to convert prisoners sounds pretty good. Either you attack, but destroy resources (the surface, wood, clothing, and the attackers themselves), or you set up traps and fight passively, to ensure you get enough prisoners to convert.

Getting to the magma lake and/or HFS should bring big rewards, like healing baths in magma or freeing the HFS as allies (which for example still could kill your pets/caravans that enter the map), or adding some reactions for adamantine-like metals made of slade, so you end up with slade armor and slade weapons (minus the high weight of course).

Either way means that digging too deep would reap rewards instead of dangers. The dangers for succubi are on the surface, with the pesky hero-invaders and flameable materials everywhere.

That's the plan, making HFS a power goal by itself. Adding a layer of corruption for the biomes you live in should and foreign civs will bring new objectives.

[Meph]

Do you need 40.x for that?

[Boltgun]

Do you need 40.x for that?

Not for the HFS or magma play. Biome changes and civilisation influence will wait for 40.x.

Edit : And from what I read, 0.40.14 will provide a full range of emotions for the succubi to play with.

[Nelia Hawk]

maybe some "other" way to capture people than cagetraps, to later corrupt or use for other things.
maybe some sort of combat "spell/ability" that places the victim in a cage if successful?  so they can be transported then (maybe some sort of "lust" magic material so it doesnt spawn a million cages with value out of nowhere... think warlocks have blocks that disappear after a while? maybe the lust cage just disappears if noone is in it anymore and cant be used to build cagetraps etc. or maybe just disappears after a season setting people inside free again if not transfered to a cell or other cage? *shrugs*)

or a very low % chance to "seduce cage" with these abilities:

Learn the secret of lust: The succubus becomes a courtesan and receive access to several interactions that affect intelligent creatures. Her enemies will have a trouble raising a sword at her. At regular intervals she will become lusty and will multiply both her and other succubi's abilities.

or

Learn abyssal gaze (lust): Render an enemy unable to think straight, they may even fall unconscious after a while.

or maybe the whole lust/corruption side could be some attacks that level up somehow based on a skill or training... (like dwarf mages learn more spells? or as own "corruption" skill that levels up by seducing in combat, going out to villages, corrupting/torturing prisoners? temples? dream interfering?) and at different skill/levels lust/corruption related attacks get stronger/ or get more effects.
as example:
maybe first combat seduction just stuns enemies, then prevents attacks against the succubus (secret of lust), then puts people to sleep (abyssal gaze), then turns them berserk to protect the succubus and turns them on their friends (like "Sow discord (envy)") and later has a chance to just capture them in a cage. (maybe if they survive the berserk part they calm down and are caged/captured then?)
or these could be random chances to apply instead of their own spell, but i guess that would be "the secret of lust" then with a few random outcomes if used in combat then. would probably be better to combine it with "the secret of lust" then just as random chance to do x or y or z. (stun, sleep, calm, berserk, cage) so a level 1 corruption would i.e. have 10% chance to stun. a level 2 would have 10% chance to stun or 5% to set to sleep. and level 5 might randomly cause be 10% stun, 5% sleep, 5% calm, 10% berserk, 10% cage on skill attacks or so.

hmm isnt the sorcery (?) skill used anyways for temples? might could double as level for seduction/lust/corruption based skills/attacks or so.

i think i once read somewhere in here the idea of going out to villages/dreams and seduce/corrupt people there to bring them back... something like some of the other playable races have to get slaves or items. (orcs have dreamwalking and raiders. and warlocks have prisoners and also raids)

well just a random idea for "something else than cagetrap capturing".

its probably just me who doesnt really want to use cagetraps (i probably need to use the temples more in general... the last forts always ended up in a tantrum after a siege haha. dunno why... maybe from dead pets or so... *shrugs* (well currently trying out the orks))

Just my thing on the children:

Incubi (in mythology) would use succubi to steal *stuff* from men and impregnate women to... create new succubi I believe? So, how about "infecting" prisoners to create young succubi?

i guess the problem with impregnating is... time... waiting 10+ years for a child to grow up to be a normal citizen just doesnt really work that well with DF.
i would say corrupting does work kinda well there... with low corruption turning prisoners into race based ... demon-y thingies.

and maybe with new higher more "time and magic" consuming methods that maybe turn humans/elves slowly into full succubi. maybe over a year you need to assign (maybe "opposite gender" succubi) at a temple near prisoners to slowly corrupt them? maybe the highcorruption ritual randomly adds "corruption liquid" on one bodypart/limb of a random prisoner nearby (similar to how you can be covered in water/blood) and you can just add one more layer of corruption on someone who hasnt got corrupted last 4 weeks or so. and once the whole body/limbs are covered it switches to a normal succubus.
or it could even be something like a mutation/illness. (no bloody idea if that would work mechanic wise... but might be more elegant than water covering mechanics.) and the "high"corruption ritual could affect nearby prisoners with an illness... and the more you do the ritual the worse get the illness and they slowly mutate limbs and horns etc at higher levels until they totally switch to a succubus at max "illness". and if you dont corrupt them regulary the illness gets weaker... so you have to corrupt the prisoners you want to corrupt to succubi every season or so.
but that probably should be rather time/material/labor consuming so its more a rare thing to do.

well just random ideas.

[Boltgun]

Leveling up is cool but I wonder if many bother to track that in dwarf mode. Humans introduced heroes, making it easier to manage. Perhaps I would introduce a leveling ability using a noble position so you have your assigned corrupter or tormentor (or several) to capture and handle your prisoners. I think we need custom positions to make the hierarchy more unique.

Trapping through spells will happen anyway. Using a material that rots will achieve it's temporary effect. Perhaps the mechanics job will be removed afterwards to remove traps (unless access to traps could be removed via dfhack).

I'll keep children and reproduction after all. But as long as their number are limited by the female to male ratio, they will receive their own bonus so you'll have 4-5 kids, no more, and they will providing something interesting for once. I'll try upping females to 95% to see if they survive world gen.

Otherwise I updated the github repo to MDF 6.1, the manual proofreading still need a migration but the first thing to do is to correct a couple of bugs, make everyone firemmune.

Fireborn succubi and their reaction will be removed, pets will probably be fireimmune too.

[AquaMouser]

In some lore, mankind change into incubi/succubi when they are in prolonged contact of the magic that succubi use. Maybe succubi can keep humanoids around as pets/followers, cus they are in love with/venerate the succubi. They start sharing their rooms, dinner places, work area's, maybe even haul the stuff succubi need, and over time they transform into a succubi/incubi (depending on their gender offcourse).

This can even be done randomised when you corrupt prisoners, where there is a chance the humanoid fell in love by the succubi and wanted to stay with them before they got changed into a demi-humanoid form (aka some get corrupted and change into their demi-humanoid form, some are left untouched this round, and maybe 1-2 per every 20-30 captured, become enraptured by a specific succubi and maybe see them as their master.)

If continuing further down this path of thinking, you can even stop the reproduction to only when a succubi mate with a humanoid before it turns, and them staying together afther the humanoid turned succubi.

Maybe in df, this can also be done with the succubi sometimes get into a strange mood and go into a special workshop that enables them to go out and "raid" a settlement, cus they got someone over there they got an interest in. Tho i would not make it something you can plan in, due to abusement (starting with 7 succubi, and within 1 season have over 9thousand humanoid pets waiting to be transformed (yes i know, an over 9thousand joke, sue me )). The chance of this succeeding could also be tied to the fact if your succubi nation is in war with the target race, or if they are in peace (i am saying this, cus in my latest fort, i was in peace with all the others except for frost giants, even had dwarf traders, it prolly is a bug, but seeing as i only play with succubi, i got no clue how that came to be).

And ohw, add cats to the succubi race, them females love them pussies

[Boltgun]

The original plan was similar to this, prisoners would join the civ as they are and transform over time. The problem is that DF does not give jobs to civ members so we ended with the corrupting transformation instead.

Strange moods were planned too but that will require a good script that runs on a regular interval to simulate one, this the one that prevent moral loss because of clothing works well it is possible. That would be cool if that an affected person in an enemy civ ends up migrating to your fort (with perhaps a way to target a good weaponsmith or other useful jobs), all that left would be finish the job in the den of iniquity and turn him into a devil.

Edit : In an effort to make the succubi more related to the DF, I am removing references to Lovecraft. This means that I need to redesign the esoteric order (thinking of making it a dungeon heart as a reference to dungeon keeper), the shothoth spawns also need a redesign (bile demons?).

I'll take out the rat things to make way for cat sidhes (cat pets!). Their teleport effect will be a spell from the temple of sin instead, that may be useful to have a succubus able to teleport through a fortification to their enemies.

[Meph]

Not that I dislike Lovecraft or Dungeon Keeper, but how is replacing one with the other making the mod more DF-like? Both are foreign properties, so to speak.

If you give succubi extravision, they can target units behind walls, which might be interesting for the teleportation.

[Boltgun]

That's right, no dungeon keeper then. Truth is the HFS lore is quite limited beyond the impending doom on players. One of the reasons I am looking towards 0.40 is that it expands this. I guess it's time for me to seek new books for inspiration (something great about df and modding is that I made me read a lot).

[AquaMouser]

you can always use the mamono universe for inspiration *wink wink*

[Meph]

I didnt mean to remove Dungeon Keeper references, I just wanted to point out that flaw in your logic. Do whatever you like best for the Succubi, be it references to other games, books, or self-invented stuff, or try to keep it HFS/DF friendly. Or all of the above.

HFS lore: Check out the procedually generated demons. Then start with those as basis. Salt demons, horrible in combat, but can be farmed for food/alchemical ingredients. Fire demons that have firebreath attacks. Tiny flying units that serve as scouts. Extract a dozen or so of the procedual demons, use them as pets (minus the intelligent tag of course).

Maybe ask IndigoFenix for his script that digs a hole straight to hell, it could be run from one of the larger altars, giving you instant access to the HFS. (and possibly killing your FPS if you have a lake in the cavern that drains into the pits now).

Use adamantine to make "upright swords" (a custom workshop), which lures adventurers on the map (spawns a unit with nice gear on the map edge? or caravans that you can rob?)

Make Succubi like slade (if you can do that with scripts), so that slade rooms and furniture give positive thoughts.

[Boltgun]

That's a good way to start.

It's been a long term objective to provide a power goal of turning the site into an evil biome. Over time freaky weather will start raining and black roses should grow there. All of the suggested actions may also work towards another secret goal that I would not spoil.

Perhaps the upright sword once toppled by an adventurer (just add buildingdestroyer to them) will spawn a mini circus, that should be easy to do because we have events on building destruction.

In case the world was genned without clowns, I'll use the creatures we have already (cerberus, fire wraith etc.).