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[taldarus]

@coolphoton- (Make obsidian) I doubt Meph will do that. He is wanting to avoid feature creep.

I liked the tribal/'high' orc concept, but the 'high' orcs just always felt like regular dwarves, only good at fighting. (so easy mode)
1- I would want to see an expansion on the raiding system.
2- An arena of blood (pitting your own against trails, enemies, or traps), if they succeed they 'become' a warrior allowing them to raid or something. (someway to make losing a raid hurt.) The trial requires a 'skilled' warrior to survive, and it forces you to 'risk' someone powerful on the raid.
3- Tavern should be re-worked. Outsiders are 'welcome' to join the clan, but must prove themselves.
4- A reason to kill off the weak members of the tribe. Oh, Codex Alera has a fun mechanic, blood magic. But that is a bit feature creepy (Darn it, I want them necro's) 

[Insanegame27]

Relative note: there seems to be an 's' missing from the thread title

[coolphoton]

@taldarus
 Feature creep, after a certain point, becomes versatility. It is why I am still playing the 6.2 MW. There aren't enough features yet in Reborn.

[taldarus]

@taldarus
 Feature creep, after a certain point, becomes versatility. It is why I am still playing the 6.2 MW. There aren't enough features yet in Reborn.

Woah...Just realized the @taldarus felt totally hostile. Maybe it's cause I am waking up. Is that a thing? Cause I read your message and thought, "Hey buddy, get your @ outta my face!" O.o

Since I started the @'ing. Let me take back mine first. 

But seriously, I am neutral on the feature creep. I was just trying to answer what meph would say. I've been reading up the last couple of weeks, and seen several times he mentioned avoiding feature creep. From a design perspective it's a good thing. As it means the factions SHOULD be significantly more diverse.

Let's take Bloodsteel:
Lots of factions used it, but because they all used it it made it blander.
Dwarves should have something like rocksteel (any boulder + any ore = rocksteel), because of there mastery of metalcraft. Rocksteel isn't as good as 'true steel', but is easily made (note: ANY ORE)
Orcs should get something totemic or shamanic so... (totem + leather = Totemic steel)
Necromancers should get something ritualistic Soul Steel (no materials, but ALWAYS kills the worker). Dwarves being the emotional tantruming babies would never EVER tolerate that.
Kobolds should get something haphazzard like Scrap Metal (er... a Metal called Scrap Metal). It definitely doesn't fit for Kobolds to get advanced, if any, metalwork. Bloodsteel never 'felt' right to me.

And that leads to another point of problem. Creep creeps, thats the problem. I ENJOY some feature creep (I like to play my dwarves more like Duergar), but I want dark 'evil' versions for ALL the factions. It's fun to me. But if all factions are dark, why make a necromancer faction at all?

skippable

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Age of Wonders III is a good example. THERE ARE NO FACTIONS AT ALL. I sank close to a thousand hours into AoW: Shadow Magic, because each faction was fascinating and a different experience. AoW III doesn't have factions. I can't even play twenty hours of the game, because the customization has ruined the diversity. Customization in ANY game is just BS. Take Fallout 4 Automatron, you can create cool amazingly different robots, but at the end of the day. People 'make' a cool robot. Post it's picture to reddit, and then go back to using the robot that actually has good stats. Super customizable = bland boring gameplay. Spore, who actually went back and 'replayed' the earlier stages? Wasn't that supposed to be how it worked? But all the stages boiled down to this. Choose the best tactical option, and there is only one good choice. Bland and boring all of em.

Take a making a steak. I like a steak marinated in soy sauce and vinegar, but my wife LOVES it. So every time I cook steak she wants it that way. I get tired and want something else, maybe some KC masterpiece. If I make one steak that has the every spice a thousand different people want, the result would be disgusting. Don't believe me? Take every spice in a grocery store, and dump a little bit into a bowl of mashed potatoes. If you don't overload the spices, the result wont be 'bad' just bland.

Anyway, Meph is trying to give a cool unique personality to each faction, and I support that (He is seasoning it his way). At the end of the day though, I could add in creep (I will tweak it to MY taste, not a thousand different people). It is really quite easy. Maybe 5 minutes of modding.

[coolphoton]

I sort of felt blood steel fit because of the somewhat different ways it was made... sorta like Wooze steel, and Tamahagane steel, both of witch are basically the same steel arrived at by different forging methods and source ores.

[Splint]

The main use for "civil" folk is as a serviceable material that can be depended on (more or less anyway...) In areas lacking in metals and where trade and salvage are kinda hit or miss (particularly if you don't use piles of masterwork food to buy everything, you dirty cheaters )

For orcs and warlocks it seems much more thematically appropriate because blood and bones are the one thing those civs should have in abundance, at least in the 34.11 version.

[taldarus]

There we have it, three people. Three different opinions on how bloodsteel fits the factions

[Meph]

My plan:
Bloodsteel will be back, for Orcs and Necromancers.
Kobolds obviously dont get it, they have no metals at all.
Dwarves wont get it. They are too elitist about metals.
Succubi might get it, depends on Boltgun.
Humans will be able to buy/get if from Orcs or Necromancers.

[Boltgun]

No blood steel for the succubi outside of the odd looted one from the invaders. I might use it for souls or corrupting effect however.

[smakemupagus]

Preview of Orc Fort features for v1.03 

Spoiler: quickguide (click to show/hide)

[Meph]

Awesome!

You took out the philosophers/hermetic garden again?

[smakemupagus]

Yeah, eh, i just wasn't sure about it, for now I took out all the tavern and scriptorium type stuff until i understand the function of libraries in the main game.

[Meph]

Yeah, eh, i just wasn't sure about it, for now I took out all the tavern and scriptorium type stuff until i understand the function of libraries in the main game.

They have nothing to do with each other. One is for scholar skills, which are useless in fort mode, while your workshop trains social skills. Btw, getting training for STUDENT; LEADER, OBSERVER, BOOKKEEPING and APPRAISAL would be useful and fit the hermetic garden too.

[LMeire]

Yeah, eh, i just wasn't sure about it, for now I took out all the tavern and scriptorium type stuff until i understand the function of libraries in the main game.

They have nothing to do with each other. One is for scholar skills, which are useless in fort mode, ...

That's not completely true; reading library books can also improve Mechanics, Pump-Operation, Organizing, Record-Keeping and all of the medical skills- depending on what the subject is. It's also a handy tool for brainwashing instilling useful values in the reader if the author held them, similar to how adventurers can now convince NPCs of certain values with high social skills.

Orcs could benefit from that last one by having a particularly war-mongering scholar write a whole bunch of books that imigrants of other races are then locked in a room with.

[Splint]

The Written Word: The most potent tool for indoctrinating non-orcs to the tribe.