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Author Topic: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode - Taking suggestions!  (Read 86076 times)

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #420 on: January 14, 2015, 03:18:26 am »

As far as I can tell the manual is still up to date (ed:  on this topic, at least :P), with the exception of some of the details in the Appendix of Spells.  Everything quoted below was true before, is still true now, and I *think* it answers most of your questions.  Apologies if the explanations aren't clear, but I did my best, and I'm not sure what I would change to try to explain anything more clearly now.

1) From what I can tell the magic codexes are needed to go from dreamwalker to a named magicuser caste (druid, etc.) Various places also say that a codex teaches some spells but not sure whether that remains the case. Is it? Or are mojos required for all spell learning now? I don't see an option to learn spells without mojos, so it would have to be part of the actual promotion process, but no idea how to tell in game.
Quote from: manual
Dreamwalkers automatically learn a unique, powerful set of spells when they undertake a spirit journey and enter an advanced spellcasting society, or caste. This process requires a caste CODEX which can be crafted at great expense, or occasionally looted by raiders. The CODEX is preserved on use.
(edit) Aside:  the "Learn from Codex" column of the Appendix is still 100% accurate if I'm not mistaken.  There you can see the spells unique to each caste.

2) Can plain dreamwalkers learn spells from mojos ...
Quote from: manual
Any Dreamwalker including those who have joined an advanced caste can learn single spells by using a MOJO at the right Place of power. The spell is learned permanently, but the MOJO is used up.

...and use magic staves?  3) I think I get that any caste of magic user can use any staff or dreamcaster now. Is this correct?
Yes, any caste of magic user can use any staff, sigilblade or dreamcaster, both now and before.
Quote from: manual
Any Dreamwalker including those who have joined an advanced caste can temporarily learn additional spells by wielding ENCHANTED WEAPONS, and by carrying DREAMCATCHERS in their off hand. Enchanted gear is crafted at the Arcane Forge.

And ammo is simply a choice of two type that are matched to two of the staves each. Then that ammo can be further enchanted according to the limits for that type of ammo.
The difference is that now all SHARDS are called "bladeshards," whereas previously there was a superficial distinction between bladeshards and doomshards.  And all Bladed Magic Weapons are now "sigilblades," whereas previously there was a superficial distinction between wraithblades and sacred kris.  Staves and missiles likewise have had their in-game (superficial) names simplified.  But the following statement from the manual was correct before, and still is now.
Quote from: manual
ENCHANTED WEAPONS can also fire spells at range using special ammo. Bladed magic weapons can interchangeable share any SHARD type ammo, while druidic and mage type magic weapons can interchangeably share MAGICMISSLE type ammo.First "blank" spell ammo is crafted at the arcane forge, or through rituals at the place of power. These blanks can be fired at enemies to do mundane damage. Or, they can instead be enchanted at the Places of Power with additional magical effects. Note, rune-ammo magic is notoriously volatile even by Orcish standards -- spells including Chainlightning, Nova, or Wraithbinding may not be particularly safe to fire into a melee with friendly forces.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 03:34:56 am by smakemupagus »
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vonsch

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #421 on: January 14, 2015, 08:31:38 am »

Thanks, that is clearer.

I think the wording on "Any Dreamwalker including those who have joined an advanced caste can learn single spells by using a MOJO at the right Place of power. The spell is learned permanently, but the MOJO is used up" was part of my problem. If the advanced castes get spells when they move to advanced caste why would they need to learn from mojos? Unless the mojos are from the other advanced castes... but that isn't explicit. It's suggested logically, but logic rarely plays into DF  ???

Fighting off invasion after invasion and clearcutting between. Raiding sure does eat trees.
 

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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #422 on: January 14, 2015, 11:44:19 am »

OK glad it helped :)

vishdafish

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #423 on: January 17, 2015, 12:20:17 pm »

Just killed and butchered a megabeast, can I do anything with the megabeast soul (it seems that orcs don't have megabeast kennels) ?
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #424 on: January 17, 2015, 03:31:00 pm »

No, not that i know of.

Weirdsound

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #425 on: January 17, 2015, 09:10:05 pm »

They should get something out of Megabeast Souls... perhaps the dreamwalkers can learn Megabeast Secrets with one, yeilding a solid handful of treasure maps for the raiders. Megabeasts do tend to wander the world...
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #426 on: January 17, 2015, 10:56:47 pm »

That's a good idea :) 

Rutee

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #427 on: February 02, 2015, 03:43:15 pm »

Can the hunter uniforms be altered on a civ level?  Because I finally worked out why my hunters are categorically useless:  Indiv Choice, Ranged.  Pretty fine and dandy for dorfs in the main game, but horrible for orcs because you have so bloody many ranged weapons.  IF it's not hardcoded, can it be made like, Recurve Bow and mentioned in the manual (Which is probably due fora  rewrite anyway with the move to Reborn)
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #428 on: February 02, 2015, 04:21:46 pm »

Good idea, but AFAIK it's hardcoded.  I haven't had such a bad time with them as you seem to (i only tend to have a couple hunters, keep an eye on what ammo he likes... if it's not arrows, make some of it).

I find maintaining the manual to be pretty tedious and thankless task; no matter how hard one works on it, there's always the next thing "missing," and then once it's too big people no longer see the things that are already in it.  Considering i have limited time for DF any more it's not too high up on the priorities to rewrite it, except for the Getting Started info.  I would prefer that folks wiki if they really need info, because then (a) other people could help and (b) it would be easier for me to know what info people really want, like if they make a table i can fill it in etc.

Rutee

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #429 on: February 02, 2015, 09:51:49 pm »

Does it have its own wiki?  The part it has on the DF Wiki is really super sparse, and for 5.0.  I actually used the manual religiously, and figured keeping it totally up to date was too much trouble, but it was legit super-helpful.  Especially the part on warrior societies and greater souls.

 As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad.  That and the fact that I keep flechette guns around for actual cause (Plus the shit I don't actually use like atlatls that hte civ wants) means I'm doing that with the military, which tends to mangle the corpse/I hate doing it even though it's risk free and doesn't cock up.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 09:57:32 pm by Rutee »
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #430 on: February 02, 2015, 10:21:07 pm »

Does it have its own wiki?  The part it has on the DF Wiki is really super sparse, and for 5.0.  I actually used the manual religiously, and figured keeping it totally up to date was too much trouble, but it was legit super-helpful.  Especially the part on warrior societies and greater souls.

No, you're exactly right, I was referring to the DFWIKI and it is pretty sparse.  When we made a push to work on it in the past there have been some good pages created like
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Masterwork:Metal, but at the end of the day I guess MW and especially the individual races just don't have enough playerbase to really get the wiki going. 

True, the stuff on wiki is from version 5, but most of the work on the manual was from version 2 :)  Glad to hear you get some good use out of it though!

Quote
As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad.

Interesting.  I wonder if these kind of screwups happen in my forts too, more often than I've noticed.  I definitely do use hunters quite a bit in the first couple years, but I sort of stop paying too much attention to them after the fort gets bigger.

Weirdsound

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #431 on: February 03, 2015, 12:50:03 am »

Does it have its own wiki?  The part it has on the DF Wiki is really super sparse, and for 5.0.  I actually used the manual religiously, and figured keeping it totally up to date was too much trouble, but it was legit super-helpful.  Especially the part on warrior societies and greater souls.

 As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad.  That and the fact that I keep flechette guns around for actual cause (Plus the shit I don't actually use like atlatls that hte civ wants) means I'm doing that with the military, which tends to mangle the corpse/I hate doing it even though it's risk free and doesn't cock up.

This might be more of a MDF issue in general than it is an Orc issue.

I have to deal it in Kobold Mode, where multiple sorts of launchers/ammo were avaible right from the getgo. I just forbid all the ranged weapons/ammo save for the sort I want my hunters using, and that works nine times out of 10... of course, that fix could be a pain in the arse if one intends to use ranged units in their military.
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Insanegame27

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #432 on: February 03, 2015, 02:07:25 am »

Does it have its own wiki?  The part it has on the DF Wiki is really super sparse, and for 5.0.  I actually used the manual religiously, and figured keeping it totally up to date was too much trouble, but it was legit super-helpful.  Especially the part on warrior societies and greater souls.

 As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad.  That and the fact that I keep flechette guns around for actual cause (Plus the shit I don't actually use like atlatls that hte civ wants) means I'm doing that with the military, which tends to mangle the corpse/I hate doing it even though it's risk free and doesn't cock up.

go military, equipment, ammunition, hunters and delete everything except the ammo u want them to use. just forbid/melt/sell/desstroy the weapons you dont want them to have.

also military uniform and hunting uniform clash. alternatively, try having no hunters, and hunt with military squads. you need to standing order them to gather refuse from outside though. unless you're hunting cavern creatures
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Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #433 on: February 04, 2015, 10:35:04 am »

I do agree it is an MDF issue, and not just an Orc issue; out of all the races, Orcs have the most comprehensive entry on the wiki (by my assessment). I would very much like to try my hand at the Wiki, but I'll be stuck on a Mac where I am (thus an out-of-date version) for the next few months and don't think it's entirely appropriate yet; beyond that, details should be different with after MDF Reborn hits the shelves.

What I actually meant to ask, and this I suppose to Smakemupagus directly: I'm making my way through the embark scenarios right now, and am on the 'Steppe Clan/Old Ways.' When you wrote that a bonus would be embarking on an aquifer, did you intend for the player to confine themselves to an above-ground fort along the lines of the Forest Clan scenario?
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #434 on: February 04, 2015, 10:59:00 am »

What I actually meant to ask, and this I suppose to Smakemupagus directly: I'm making my way through the embark scenarios right now, and am on the 'Steppe Clan/Old Ways.' When you wrote that a bonus would be embarking on an aquifer, did you intend for the player to confine themselves to an above-ground fort along the lines of the Forest Clan scenario?

It's meant to get you started with a surface fort, but I purposely left it up to the player to choose whether to breach the aquifer eventually.

Also even in Forest Clan/Vale of Tears it's on purpose open to interpretation whether the Druidic Temple is your entire base, or just one structure within a larger town that might also include stone or underground buildings.

Maybe writing a couple new scenarios would get me in the spirit of updating the manual.  That is one of the actually fun parts of doing it :)
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