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Author Topic: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode - Taking suggestions!  (Read 86003 times)

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #150 on: July 28, 2014, 10:59:10 pm »

>> Wait a minute. Does this mean you could technically wield TWO composite bows since they're one handed? 0_0

Carry, yes....  Fight with, not really. 

>>  Also, I have hard time picturing using a bow and a shield (thats not a buckler) o_o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavise ?

beepis

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #151 on: July 31, 2014, 11:16:17 am »

Why does the weight bench not train strength like the dwarven one?
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Meph

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #152 on: July 31, 2014, 11:36:24 am »

Smake, he is talking about this one:

Code: [Select]
[REACTION:WORK_OUT_TITLE1]
[NAME:*Trains Strength,Agility,Toughness,Spatial/Kinetic*]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:NONE]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:NONE]

[REACTION:WORK_OUT_TITLE2]
[NAME:*Even legendary Athletes still gain attribute boni*]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:NONE]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:NONE]

[REACTION:WORK_OUT1]
[NAME:Work out]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:CUSTOM_A]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:CUSTOM_A]
[PRODUCT:100:10:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SWEAT]
[SKILL:MISC_WEAPON]

[REACTION:WORK_OUT2]
[NAME:Work out - Medium (Any Metal Bar)]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:CUSTOM_B]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:CUSTOM_B]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:IS_METAL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:100:20:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SWEAT]
[SKILL:MISC_WEAPON]

[REACTION:WORK_OUT3]
[NAME:Work out - Hard (Lead Bar)]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:CUSTOM_C]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:CUSTOM_C]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:LEAD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:100:30:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SWEAT]
[SKILL:MISC_WEAPON]

Its a simple workshop that uses metal bars to train, using the MISC_WEAPON skill, which trains Strength, Agility, Toughness, Spatial/Kinetic Sense. Its renamed to Athlete ingame.
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beepis

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #153 on: July 31, 2014, 11:46:14 am »

I was talking about the orc one. All you can do is train combat skills not athletic.
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Meph

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #154 on: July 31, 2014, 11:51:15 am »

I know. Thats because smake made that, before I wrote the other one. Now he knows that two versions exist, and might or might not decide to change something in Orc mode about it.
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #155 on: July 31, 2014, 12:00:56 pm »

Why does the weight bench not train strength like the dwarven one?

No surprise, orcish and dwarvish culture have developed independently. 

Anyway MISC_WEAPON (athlete) is just a physical skill like any other and as far as I know doesn't boost your attributes any faster than the exercises that orcs do. 

... MISC_WEAPON is the skill that a tantruming Uruk uses to kill your scribe by throwing a table at him, but for most other purposes I'd just as soon get my attribute boost while learning to wrestle or dodge :)

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #156 on: August 03, 2014, 08:58:25 pm »

Thanks Arcvasti, Gamerlord, Guthbug, and others for contributing to these Getting Started tips!

Before world generation: 

The default world gen settings will give you a moderately easy first couple years, with several trading partners helping to guard your outpost and boost your economy.  If you are looking for a tougher challenge for your Orcish warriors, you might choose to limit contact to ~1 friendly trade partner (for example, the goblins) and replace the weak Gnome invaders with some of the more powerful Fortress Defense races.  You can turn off slag if you want since Orc Fort already has a similar inefficiency (rusty iron) built into batch smelting at the Molten Pit.

Before you embark:

Orcs are equally at home above or below the surface, so bring picks and axes of course.  Orcish tribal gear uses a lot of leather, bones, and ash, so it's a good idea to get hunting (bring leather for quivers) or ranching going fairly quickly too.  You don't need a lot of booze since orcs aren't alcohol dependent, and you don't really need an anvil since the Tribal Warcrafter workshop can provide without. Check the castes of your starting 7 for specialists.  If you start with an Artisan, (Dreamwalker, Corsair), you don't need to invest embark points in crafting (medicine, appraising).

The included embark profiles can get you off to a quick start.  The Goals and Tips in the scenarios below are designed to give an introduction to some of the features in Orc Fortress.  Use any extra points to get a pack of Orcish Direwolves for hunting and guard duty, or Steppe Aurochs for ranching.  Get some Arctic Condors or Terrier Squigs for vermin control.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After the embark:  Set up a basic camp with some secure living quarters, food supply, and carpenter/mason/craftsorc.  The still can wait if you have fresh water, although booze is still good in the long run.  Get multiple butchers and tanners running, and as soon as you have hides build leatherworker and the first two unique orcish buildings: Tribal Warcrafter and Fletcher.  Start production of lamellar leather for shields for your whole warband, and armor for your most promising warriors.  Add an ash supply from burning wood or the Crematorium; use leather, ash, and bone to create some ironbone weapons at the Warcrafter.

Choose weapons that suit your warband.  Common orcs will usually do their best with an orcish axe or sword.  Uruks can use great weapons one-handed, like the macuahuitl or greataxe.  Ologs will be great with any heavy weapon including a polearm, club or maul.  Snaga will do well with a composite bow from the fletcher.  Mix in some war-claws, jagged spears, or bladed chains if you face large or armored enemies for piercing damage.  For extra flexibility you can create combination weapons like the tomahawk, which allows you to fight in melee with axe and shield and also carry a quiver of throwing tomahawks.  If you have any mages that you would like to join the fight, have the warcrafter make them them a Crisknife and bladeshards, or Tribal Staff with runebolts.

Assign a speaker, shaman (psych/doctor), and scribe (accountant/manager) and equip their rooms.  You can add more shamans and scribes later as needed.  Churn out some crafts for trade but hold on to totems -- you might find them more valuable as bounties for the Freelancers guild to jumpstart your raiding.

Mid game:

If you start metalworking, get an Orcish Molten Pit for batch processing.  You can also use it to "re-size" small armor, like mithril armor taking from the corpses of elvish invaders.  Use an Orcish Factory to churn out blocks from clay or ash for above ground building.  The factory is also great for mass charcoal production from farmed or collected saplings.  Once you have access to massive quantities of enemies to butcher, add extraction of blood to barrels in your meat-works, and add Boneforges to create bars of ironbone and bloodsteel that can be used at your forges.

Start your raiding industry by building a seige workshop and Freelancer's guild, and cutting a couple hundred trees.  (Farming wood stalks or trade can help).  Forge or factory-produce cheap weapons like copper daggers. Craft ballista parts.  Mint or trade for rusty iron coins.  Build a Raider Drydock and send some expeditions for Goblin and Kobold migrant workers.  These workers are "tools" that can be used to unlock some useful workshops in the "Outlander's Ghetto".  If you have enough resources, move on to the riskier raids to suppliment your own productions.  You can loot unique foriegn weapons like warhammers and muskets, and blueprints or captives that unlock a variety of new buildings, but be aware that you are more likely to lose your ships and even have a chance to suffer a counterattack against your fort.  Target Merchant Shipping or Humans to get human captives and unlock buying and selling goods at the Caravanserai.  Then target Dwarves to get steel bars and gear, or Elves for the best bows and endless supplies of wood.

Late game: 

Once you have a good quantity of scalps, start crafting Standards of Honour at the craftsorc and build a Warriors Meadhall.  Your elite warriors can create powerful weapon kits with special melee and ranged attacks (try the Jaguar Society for your Uruks and the Seawolf Society for your Corsairs).  If you have access to brass, fuel, rocksalt, or saltpeter you might want to explore gunpowder weapons and heavy industry: start by adding a Goblin Tinkerer, Blacksmoke Foundry, and Steamfurnace.  If you have plenty of mithril or wolfram, you might want to add a damasc forge, where your best forgeorcs can make powerful elegant melee and throwing weapons.

Your Dreamwalkers can learn a great variety of spells at the Places of Power.  Use a Totem pole to capture souls from your enemies.  Rituals will grant you new equipment and mojos to unlock new spell powers; the ritual requirements vary at each temple but they all require some tallow or wax candles.  Craft a reusable Codex and have your Dreamwalkers use it to learn some arcane arts and upgrade themselves into spellcasting magic users.  Or, use some orichalcum that your smelters or raiders have found to create some Dreamwalkers' runic weapons at the Arcane forge, and use the Places of Power to enchant runic spells onto bladeshard or runebolt ammo.

There are a number of foreign buildings that can be unlocked rarely, either by Dreamwalkers using souls to experience visions at the Totem pole, or by your raiders bringing back plans from overseas, or in some cases by buying plans at the Caravanserai bazaars.  None of these foreign buildings are critical but they can give you a unique edge in certain situations.  Keep an eye out in particular for the plans for the Ancient Foundry or Ashland Glassworks, which allow you to make some special high-end weapons materials. 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 09:09:15 pm by smakemupagus »
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Meph

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #157 on: August 04, 2014, 04:58:41 am »

Can I just copy paste that into the manual? :) Its neat, and a lot longer than I expected. (which is good)
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Gamerlord

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #158 on: August 04, 2014, 05:15:17 am »

Hey, I think the Goblin Tinkerer needs an update. Last time I checked it smelted ore-bearing-rocks not the ores themselves. It might be more efficient to smelt them at the smelter after processing. Something to check up on anyway.

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #159 on: August 04, 2014, 11:02:58 am »

Can I just copy paste that into the manual? :) Its neat, and a lot longer than I expected. (which is good)

Yep!  Some is new, some is from the old "Tips & Tricks" page.

Quote
Hey, I think the Goblin Tinkerer needs an update. Last time I checked it smelted ore-bearing-rocks not the ores themselves. It might be more efficient to smelt them at the smelter after processing. Something to check up on anyway.

Thanks for note ... I believe that what it does now is takes ore-bearing-rock and creates bars just as efficiently as if you had processed them first, which seems OK to me.

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #160 on: August 04, 2014, 03:26:00 pm »

v5.10.OF3 (last planned update other than fixes, at least until DF2014)
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732

Experienced players (or anyone else:) please comment on balance of new "pillage" and "assault" raids.  Get maps to unlock them at small chance from normal raids, or send the Kobold Trickster to scout.  Pillage are similar value but specific items that might be in high demand.  Assaults are 3 longboats with a chance for 3x loot, and one of the 3 loots might be an extra rich haul.  You can now unlock buildings again via raiding, with a much better chance for success on these raids that require maps though. -- Also a much better chance to trigger the counterattack scripts.  Dreamwalkers are still the fastest way to get elf/dwarf/etc. tech if you have the souls to cruise for memories.

Note, i really don't have a lot of time to playtest as much as I used to, so please consider giving it a shot :)

* remove RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_ENFORCEMENT from executioner, give to clanleader (invalid officer error)
* lessened some co-alloy requirements at damasc forge, rebalance since patternwelded metals no longer have special properties in MDF
* [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:EGG_MATERIALS] on squigs and condors.  fix(?) bug that prevented cooking eggs
* Removed some obsolete "soap" style blueprints which were no longer used
* [REACTION:KOB_THIEF3_ORC] - Kobold trickster - scout for maps
* [REACTION:KOB_THIEF4_ORC] - Kobold trickster - hunt for scalps

* [ITEM_TOOL:GNOME_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:WARLOCK_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:SUCCUBUS_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:MINES_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:ABBEY_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:DARKTOWER_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:WORLDTREE_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:UNDERCITY_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:TREASUREFLEET_LOOT_CRATE]

* [REACTION:RAID_GNOME_ORC]
* [REACTION:RAID_SUCCUBUS_ORC]
* [REACTION:RAID_ABBEY_ORC] (pillage loot: abbey)
* [REACTION:RAID_MINES_ORC] (pillage loot: mines)
* [REACTION:RAID_TREASUREFLEET_ORC] (assault loot: shipping/human/treasure)
* [REACTION:RAID_WORLDTREE_ORC] (assault loot: elf/elf/worldtree)
* [REACTION:RAID_DARKTOWER_ORC] (assault loot: warlock/succubus/darktower)

* [REACTION:CRATE_GNOME_LOOT]; mech gear, skates, brass, alum, lead, traps, xbow
* [REACTION:CRATE_SUCCUBUS_LOOT]; sorcerer codex, souls, bladeshard weapons
* [REACTION:CRATE_WARLOCK_LOOT]; destructive spells, ebonglass, soulgems
* [REACTION:CRATE_ABBEY_LOOT]; crafts, medical, healing spells, soulgems, armor
* [REACTION:CRATE_MINES_LOOT]; ores, gems, moonstone & obsidian, coal
* [REACTION:CRATE_TREASUREFLEET_LOOT]; shipping++ with lifeguard & muskets
* [REACTION:CRATE_WORLDTREE_LOOT]; elves++ with ashland glass
* [REACTION:CRATE_DARKTOWER_LOOT]; destructive spells, codexces, blueprints, souls
* Entity permit all of above
* Tinker with some of the existing loot tables (balance/diversity)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 03:39:00 pm by smakemupagus »
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SecondBreakfast

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #161 on: August 04, 2014, 05:25:05 pm »

What labour do I have to enable to get orcs to sell stuff at the Freelancer's Guild?

Also the orcish weightlifting and blood bowl grounds seem pretty superfluous. They both seem to train the same skills, which are also trained by regular sparring? It's pretty confusing having an orcish weightlifter which requires far more resources and is noticeably worse than the dwarven equivalent so I'd suggest just taking that out.

edit: also why does the molten pit have the option to make 9 charcoal from 6 wood when the regular smelter already makes 3 coke from 1 wood? The molten pit option looks much worse.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 05:29:48 pm by SecondBreakfast »
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #162 on: August 04, 2014, 06:55:46 pm »

What labour do I have to enable to get orcs to sell stuff at the Freelancer's Guild?

Also the orcish weightlifting and blood bowl grounds seem pretty superfluous. They both seem to train the same skills, which are also trained by regular sparring? It's pretty confusing having an orcish weightlifter which requires far more resources and is noticeably worse than the dwarven equivalent so I'd suggest just taking that out.

edit: also why does the molten pit have the option to make 9 charcoal from 6 wood when the regular smelter already makes 3 coke from 1 wood? The molten pit option looks much worse.

(1) Scribe
(2) Yep, but i think that sparring and especially demonstrations works much better if you start with a couple ranks (you don't want them missing -- you want a swing and a hit or a block/dodge).  IMO the combo of weightlifter -> sparring is borderline overpowered, Mrs. Smak uses it all the time and gets legendary squads quite readily in just a couple years.  I can't comment on Meph's version since I don't play dwarf mode too often, other than to say sometimes we don't agree on every little balance detail :)
(3) Good question!  I don't actually know where that 3:1 reaction came from, and probably will remove it ^^ 

thanks btw :D
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 07:03:37 pm by smakemupagus »
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SecondBreakfast

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #163 on: August 05, 2014, 03:41:16 am »

Yikes, can I ask you to consider putting something else in to replace it? Even a chopping-block style building to get seeds from map trees? As it is the only way to start tree farms is to bring seeds or trade for them, and Orc industry is so heavily coke-dependant (and tree dependant) you need as many trees as possible. Some way to make use of peat might also be handy (perhaps peat and wood to make extra coke?), it seems a very orky resource.

The dwarf-style weightlifting bench does seem pretty overpowered, I wouldn't argue for it to be copied in to Orc mode, but I would argue for the orc bench to be removed and any extra reactions folded into the blood bowl pitch. Two different weightlifting benches with different requirements and reactions (and the more resource-heavy one being noticeably worse than the cheap one) is very confusing for newcomers.
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2014, 04:44:52 am »

You should recover seeds just fine when you burn gathered saplings at the factory, and the return rate is enough to keep a farm going if you have decent farmers/fertilizer.  I would suggest raiding elves if you really want to bootstrap some tree farms without trade, you'll get saplings to burn for more seeds, and eventually take some Elf prisoners for Labor Cells.

Indeed, there is peat compression in the new version (@ goblin muckraker).

fwiw Wood stalks @ kobold Textile Hut powers the forges in a lot of our forts.  Grow fast and seeds replenish very easily.  Switch to burning ironoak and steeloak saplings for greater fuel density once the farmers are skilled.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 04:59:10 am by smakemupagus »
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