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Author Topic: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode  (Read 80344 times)

IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #285 on: July 25, 2014, 09:08:20 am »

My main complaint is WAY too many resources. Okay, I may have been a bit extreme on waterwheels... but I only ran the block making machine for about 60 seconds. 15000 blocks and every time I hit that entry in stocks I lag as long as the machine ran.

I think the efficiency may need a little downward balancing.

Way too many kids too. Gnomes aren't kobolds. They are long-lived. Kids should be rare. Gnomes should make up with pets and machines what they lack in gnome power.

15000 blocks?  How many boulders did you throw in there?  It's supposed to produce 16 blocks for every boulder.

Gnomes don't have any more kids than any standard race, but it takes longer for them to grow up (20 years), so you'll usually have a large number of them around.  However, most of those kids will do one kind of crafting labor automatically, so they aren't entirely useless.

Kiefatar

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #286 on: July 25, 2014, 09:29:55 am »

So how do I even start the mechanical crafting? I've been trying to get an Arc Furnace up, but even embarking with the two crates and building discs/wire/whatever I still can't  get the shop to build a dynamo. Do the boxes not come with magnetized bars? I've seen a bunch of bars (magnet) and I figured that'd be needed for the dynamo.

Also, rock disks/pipes are just weird too. Neither copper nor green glass seem to work. Gnomes really need a tightening up of their material and crafting requirements. I'm looking forward to the next release.

Also, question... how does one improve your standing with nature? Is releasing animals the only way? I've yet to be able to actually recruit anything.
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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #287 on: July 25, 2014, 09:54:38 am »

So how do I even start the mechanical crafting? I've been trying to get an Arc Furnace up, but even embarking with the two crates and building discs/wire/whatever I still can't  get the shop to build a dynamo. Do the boxes not come with magnetized bars? I've seen a bunch of bars (magnet) and I figured that'd be needed for the dynamo.

Also, rock disks/pipes are just weird too. Neither copper nor green glass seem to work. Gnomes really need a tightening up of their material and crafting requirements. I'm looking forward to the next release.

Also, question... how does one improve your standing with nature? Is releasing animals the only way? I've yet to be able to actually recruit anything.

Start with a stonecutter. It's simpler. :) An arc furnace requires some high end parts.

If it says rock, metal is what it really wants. Glass wouldn't be expected to work. I think when it says glass it really means glass.

The material requirements are confusing because, unlike most other races, many "components" have to be crafted first. For example, if something calls for a mainspring than you have to craft the mainspring out of multiple other components first. For the things I make the most of, I spent some time with a pencil and paper and wrote down all the subingredients first and then made macros for work orders for everything.

As for nature, you can release animals back into the wild and that helps. When caravans come, buy up all their useless animals and then release them into the wild. That helps. You can also send a gnome off into the wilderness wearing some good gear and that helps too, but now you're down one gnome.

My gnome fort fell last night to a frost giant attack. They tore through my steel robot gorillas like dwarf axelords catching a kobold thief. I think the robots are far less uber than they sound on paper. :( Once an enemy gets past the animals and inside the fort, it's all over but the crying. Even with steam armor and railguns, the gnomes aren't much of a match for any real enemy.
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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #288 on: July 25, 2014, 10:24:57 am »

Going through this, I have some ideas as to a gnome raiding workshop (in line with what the orcs, kobolds, and dwarves have).

At the forge, the following item would be crafted in the advanced body shop:

Robot Exploration Unit

Components: 43 metal bars, 1 drill, a chainsaw, 2 actuators, 2 clocks, 1 dynamo, 1 power cell

Creates: Robot Exploration Unit (just a big an expensive raiding kit/longboat/etc like the other workshops use as a reaction component)

Then use that item in another special gnome workshop called the "Robotic Launchpad" or something similar.

Reactions in that workshop would have varying degrees of chance to lose the exploration unit in a scalable risk/reward tree and require the unit plus a power cell (which is consumed each exploration).

Potential Reactions include:

Mine for common metal (returns random metal bars in small amounts)
Mine for rare metals (returns valuable metals such as deep bronze)
Mine for adamantium (returns small portion of adamantium but at high risk to lose your machine)

Also possible reactions:

Farm underground trees (returns netherbark or glass tree type logs)
Retrieve plant samples (returns underground plants)
Retrieve fossils (fossils)
Retrieve treasure/relics (obviously retrieves treasure chests or relics)
Seek out gems of Arnok (blood, stone, etc. of Arnok)

Some advanced chained reactions (patterned off the warlock overlord throne) might be (rare drop):

Found underground ruins > analyze map to underground ruins > explore underground ruins (which could return anything from gem statues to broken automaton parts or whatever)

Just some ideas I had for gnomes. I don't know if the creator of the mod has any plans for a raiding workshop, but I thought I'd throw this out here if not. Hope it doesn't step on any toes.

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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #289 on: July 25, 2014, 11:19:56 am »

The Fall of Whiskeredflats.

In the halls above, the sound of the railguns fell silent. The frightened gnomes who clustered in the safe room below listened intently. The whistle indicating that all was clear did not come. The roar of the invaders was growing louder. From up above came the sound of an explosion and then more enraged roars.

"That was the steam engine's boiler," Jagarix said. She was the wife of one of the tinkers. She hung her head and began to softly cry.

The door burst open and in came Kibster Hollopex. His steam armor hissed as vapor escaped from a crack in the right shoulder. Ettin blood smeared his armor. His empty railgun had been abandoned and he held his vibroblade down at his side. Behind him towered Punth, the mechanical war gorilla who was the military commander's faithful bodyguard. Punth was heavily damaged and leaking oil. His right arm was gone and one of the ruby lenses was missing from its eyesocket. He was battered all over, but still looked around watchfully, standing at Kibster's back and waiting for danger.

"The gorillas have fallen," the military commander announced to the room. "The traps did not slow them down and the invaders are on the upper level. The militia is running out of ammo. I have given the order to abandon the fortress."

Wails of suffering rose from the assembled gnomes. This was the last stronghold. Carved deep into the heart of a mountain, there was rich metal here and a chance for a good, long life to rebuild the gnome civilization.

"How did it come to this?" asked Halama, the bookkeeper and wife of Kibster.

"We traded too much technology," the military commander replied. "Word got out of what we had, and other races decided to come take it for themselves."

"Where do we run?" asked a voice from the crowd. Kibster thought it was the cook. "The dwarves? The elves?"

"They do not think like we do, nor would they understand our way of life. The gnomes will look out for themselves in the forests, as we have always done. Perhaps now we have learned that technology cannot protect us from the evils of the world."

Kibster turned to go but stopped at the door. "Run. Take what food you can and go through the secret tunnels we have long prepared against this day. Pull the lever on the other side when the last of you have reached it. The children at your side and the babes you hold in your arms are the future of the gnomes now."

"If we pull the lever, how will you escape? The frost giants have taken the entrance."

Kibster looked back to his wife. Punth looked down at his gnome friend sadly, even his robot brain sensing the moment. His movements were slowing down and becoming jerky as his actuator failed.

"Just go," Kibster said. "I must return to the fighting. There will be a few of the militia still alive yet."

As the steam armor clanked into motion again, the gnomes gathered in the burrow knew that the last failing machinery and the brave heart of their military commander constituted a sharp line between their lives, and the savagery that approached.
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___MeRliN___

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #290 on: July 26, 2014, 03:43:44 pm »

I dont get it... I figured that I need to magnetize my iron with an electrostatic generator. No problem build one. "Oh it needs power... ok guess I setup a couple of windmills and see if I got wind. Yes got wind... now just to wire it up... hm doesnt seem to work... lets use gears instead of axles... doesnt seem to work... lets try from another direction... hm doesnt seem to work..."

So I tried out to power it from all possible angles and it just wont even receive energy... so how do I power that electrostatic generator? I need magnets for my arc furnace and railguns... checked manual a bit and it didnt gave me any hints either :/

And yeah, the axles and 2 gearboxes receive power... use up 10. Do I simply need more power or is there something different I need to know when trying to power my machines... tried a machine input... didnt work either.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 03:46:07 pm by ___MeRliN___ »
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Qrox

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #291 on: July 26, 2014, 11:05:42 pm »

I guess you need more power. windmills do not provide much power, and I used two waterwheels and they successfully powered it. One might be enough though, but two will definitely work

___MeRliN___

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #292 on: July 27, 2014, 09:09:28 am »

Yeah needed more power, linked 2 watermills to it and it worked. Charged the capacitor, created magnetized iron. Then build the dynamo followed by the arc furnace... forgot the off switch... well... it decided to eat 3 of my gnomes and turn them into ash... which is turned into concrete... "The walls are living" and "They are coming out of the walls" got a completly new meaning due to that incident. Intercepted a Tantrum Spiral which almost developed cause of the arc furnace and added an off switch. Its now only on when I have to smelt ores. And its doing a damn good job on smelting ores... maybe I use that thing as a instant kill trap at the entrance at some point... but for now time to create the first Railgun... and damn the ammo is expensive...
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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #293 on: July 27, 2014, 09:47:07 am »

Why not use the steam engine? That thing seems to put out a lot of power.
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windalu

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #294 on: July 27, 2014, 08:38:57 pm »

I have no idea what you mean by "workshop hooking to the machine" :D

Where does the axle touch the workshop? :)

I think you need to have a Gear (mechanism), not just an axle, touching any corner of the workshop (the corners look like gears too).

On a different matter, I found out that using the "machina" command in DFHack makes all the dangerous machinery check their power status so they turn on/off immediately. My previous work accidents happened (I guess) because the machina script checks machine power in relatively long time intervals so when I disable the power grid, the machinery turns off when machina script checks power. That sometimes leaves a long time window for FUN. :D
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #295 on: July 28, 2014, 01:22:27 pm »

Actually, there is no periodic check, the script checks immediately in response to certain events, like a change to a machine's power level or the construction of a new building.  However, there are still a few bugs, mostly because the script takes shortcuts in order to avoid hurting the frame rate.

It is possible that if a machine's state changes but the number of machine systems remains the same and  all machines retain the same power level the script might not recognize the change.  It also has problems when you make your first machina building, apparently the startup code isn't perfect.  But designating a new building should reload everything.

celem

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #296 on: August 06, 2014, 12:23:58 pm »

Decided to give the gnomes a whirl while I wait for invasions in the new releases.  Lotta fun guys, nice work.

Some thoughts/observations/tips for others:

Pop:
At first I frowned at the idea of dismissing members of my civ at the nature shrine and ignored it.  However it's pretty useful later on.  You end up with a lot of children since they stay children so long, and while kids will have a couple of jobs they will do you cant alter them and they wont haul in a reasonable manner.  I had issues with a lot of idle kids whose skills were not useful, dismiss those.  Those who have a decent skill can be kept and allowed to train.

Related to this, watch out for child immigrants with outdoor non-workshop labours.  Fishers, herbalists and woodcutters.  You can only keep them indoors with a burrow, which is a good plan as they will get snatched a lot.  Burrow the kids inside the walls.

Wildlife:
Seriously, bring a decent druid on embark or cry.  It takes quite a bit of skill to persuade decent animals across, and the ones you really want can be very hard.  Likewise you need a high skill druid to wartrain the high end creatures.  Animal Trainer levels obscenely slowly, sure everyone in the fort has novice, but migrants with it I havent seen yet and you want it early and big.

Actually getting favor shouldnt be hard, just dont ever ever butcher anything yourself or keep stuff caged.  Keeping animals seems to constantly pad your score over time, with some exotics seemingly worth big amounts of credit.  I never had issues even with occassional combat deaths.

Using wildlife in combat as your defense totally works, but you need the right animals, big ones.  Dogs and wolves are about as small as a melee war animal should go with certain exotic exceptions.  Bears, big cats and large hooved/horned stuff like yak and up are best.  Even so you will have to armor your pets or they will get annihilated.  The animal armoring system worked really nicely, though needed some micromanagement of pastures and nicknaming animals so I could see what I was doing.  Training the animals helps hugely too, many will have bite primary attacks so my starting 7 included a pair of druid5/bite5 gnomes as beastmasters.  Trained grizzlys are tearing armored goblins in half with shakes.

Breaking pet bonds needs some serious skill for a high value pet, it was 2 years in before my starting druids had enough skill to pull off stuff like spiritwebbers.  I didnt play much with the formation/follow stuff but I imagine it's likewise needing of good skill for many creatures.  Clockwork/mechanical takes really high skill to wartrain too.

Clockwork:
I didnt tinker much with tinkering *hehe*, made some clockwork critters which worked quite well.  A handful of copper beetles scattered around the entrance as spotters were useful earlygame.  I also made a number of mechanical dogs which proved quite combat effective.  Note that mechanical animals need a really good druid to 'war/hunt train' at the advanced trainer but improve considerably with it.  I did make the cool clockwork pants for my smelter and forger so that they worked while they slept, that was great.  I didnt find the flowchart until late on, if you dont know the recipes its a little irritating, i used the manager to order end-products and then reverse-engineered the recipes from cancellation spam but it wasnt pretty.

Playstyle:
Good unique feeling to the race, I started by trying to play them pure vegetarian water-drinking.  You need a lot of wells for a big fort however and with harder farming enabled you will have a big job feeding the masses.  I added fish into their diet and things stabilized out.  I did no hunting and butchered nothing deliberately (an accident or 2 with weapon traps and animal-on-animal scuffles).  I didnt muck around with much of the machinery this time through the few bits I played with needed plenty power so definitely embark on flowing water for power, fish and drinking.  They are highly amusing in melee combat, I didn't make squads but the few times a gnome was on the receiving end of an attack they pretty much blew to pieces. 

Played 4 years up until attacks began to intensify past the point at which my purely animal defenses could handle.  They struggle once the hostiles start armoring in a serious fashion.  I'll do another more mixed play-through now that I have a handle on the animal system, which is epic.  Damn fine job.  I embarked on tropical moist brdleaf and mountain, both untamed wilds with wolves and grizzlies.  Wolves made good bodyguards while grizzlies are brawlers.  I swiftly picked up from the local area snow leopards which was awesome (proficient druid worked), then later giant snow leopards which was even cooler (It took a professional druid to attract a giant snow leopard with mixed success), and finally giant sloth bears which was also fairly brutal. 

Armored and trained the wild catches and used them as frontline defense until they bred and their offspring got tamed, then released the parents and replaced them with the next generation.  Remember that even gnomes cannot take every wild creature and make it (Tame), you still need to breed certain (Trained) creatures and tame the offspring to establish fully tame populations. 

Letting your druids spar for a bit unarmed will buff their fighter/dodge/strike/kick etc which they can then pass on.  But bite is what you really want to teach your animals and that climbs very slowly, hence embarking with biter druids.

?: Where is the whole 'Replace a limb with a mechanical one' thing done?  Couldnt seem to find a workshop for that, reactions didnt appear in the Artificer's.  Also gnomes will wear adjustable gauntlets, is that intentional?  seems to be the only animal gear they can wear but suited me fine, I produced loads before realising 95% of my animals needed none but wanted 4 boots.

Also, got plenty of leather from dwarven/human caravans, but bone is really tough for gnomes to source, makes you quite dependant on vermin for the leather II upgrade so bring a vermin-hunter.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 12:42:21 pm by celem »
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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #297 on: August 06, 2014, 12:31:56 pm »

I made some changes on the mounts. Gnomish sieges should have a little more power now. I did remove can_speak and can_learn from the mechanical animals for that.

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celem

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #298 on: August 06, 2014, 12:45:16 pm »

Aww, I was war-training them and teaching them bite.. :p

I guess can_learn interferes with the second, will they still wartrain without can_learn?
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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #299 on: August 06, 2014, 12:58:04 pm »

I think you can still train them with the script. (?) But thats something indigofenix has to answer.

But you can buy them now at embark, and migrants might bring such mechanical pets, so its not all bad. ;)
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