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Author Topic: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode  (Read 80459 times)

jonveck

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #165 on: June 23, 2014, 01:23:34 pm »

It's not that I'm necessarily *anti-gnome* it's that the dwarfs have their temples, their wizards, their advanced armorers (and the size and skills to be a viable army)... I mean, it really should not be that much of a surprise to say that the dwarfs have more content, right?  I'm just interested in being able to add even more (i.e. automation) to it rather than get that new mechanic while losing ones I enjoy so much (by playing as the gnomes rather than dwarfs).

Don't get me wrong:  I know I'm asking to have my cake and eat it, too.  It's just that I'm a fairly advanced player who's been "dwarfin' it up" since early 2010, so I tend to enjoy the more advanced, "end game" content the most.  I like to be able to "do it all."
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Meph

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #166 on: June 23, 2014, 01:32:03 pm »

Maybe I can do add the automated-factory part to the Dwarves. The druidism and animal training, and time travel and crazy gadgets should stay gnome-exclusive. But the machines would fit well for dwarves.
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jonveck

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #167 on: June 23, 2014, 03:48:53 pm »

And, frankly, the machinery/automation is all I'm interested in at this point, so permitting that and *not* including the druidism/animal training/time-travel suits me just fine.  Because, yes, I too have always felt like such machines would be very dwarfy. 

I mean, if you were to actually make it an option in the GUI (e.g. Allow Dwarven Automation) that would be great -- particularly if anyone else is in the same situation as I am -- but I'm really only asking for myself since I love the idea of automation and want to play with it without feeling hampered by the loss of other dwarf-only reactions.  So regardless of which direction you go, if I'm understanding things correctly, I should be able to simply toss the PERMITTED_REACTIONS into the dwarf file and be good to go.  Should be fun.
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omniclasm

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #168 on: June 23, 2014, 05:26:31 pm »

Yeah...I kind of agree that the druidism stuff just isn't that interesting. It feels half baked and tacked on and I don't even know how it fits thematically. I'd rather see the machines, gadgets and clockwork animals expanded upon and the druidism stuff ported to elves or something.
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somebears

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #169 on: June 23, 2014, 06:27:27 pm »

And, frankly, the machinery/automation is all I'm interested in at this point, so permitting that and *not* including the druidism/animal training/time-travel suits me just fine.  Because, yes, I too have always felt like such machines would be very dwarfy. 

I mean, if you were to actually make it an option in the GUI (e.g. Allow Dwarven Automation) that would be great -- particularly if anyone else is in the same situation as I am -- but I'm really only asking for myself since I love the idea of automation and want to play with it without feeling hampered by the loss of other dwarf-only reactions.  So regardless of which direction you go, if I'm understanding things correctly, I should be able to simply toss the PERMITTED_REACTIONS into the dwarf file and be good to go.  Should be fun.
+1 on this. I actually just did that for my new fort. Unfortunately there was the best update ever. love you meph <3
I did only add the factory things and the logic stuff. I felt like the cosmic gear/seismograph is not dwarfy enough
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Meph

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #170 on: June 23, 2014, 08:39:02 pm »

I do love the nature part of the Gnomes though. When IndigoFenix mentioned it first, I thought "Wow, thats awesome, I didnt expect that at all". I think it fits them very well. Traditional fantasy gnomes were always nature-bound and lived in forests, that steampunk thing is pretty new, I would even mostly credit Blizzard for it.
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palu

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #171 on: June 23, 2014, 09:02:00 pm »

How do I make the sorting machine sort multiple items or materials. Like, if I want it to sort out all ores.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #172 on: June 24, 2014, 03:16:39 am »

How do I make the sorting machine sort multiple items or materials. Like, if I want it to sort out all ores.

You can't.  But regular rocks can go through the arc furnace undamaged.  I typically feed all rocks through the furnace, then separate the rocks from the bars afterwards.

Repseki

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #173 on: June 24, 2014, 03:22:51 am »

Does it only sort rocks from bars, or can you have it sort other things?

and doesn't the Arc Furnace also toss out the occasional block? Or was I just imagining things...
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #174 on: June 24, 2014, 04:29:45 am »

Does it only sort rocks from bars, or can you have it sort other things?

and doesn't the Arc Furnace also toss out the occasional block? Or was I just imagining things...

It can sort any item from everything else and/or any material from everything else, but only one item/material at a time.  So there's no way to sort all ore-bearing boulders from all regular boulders using a single machine, but you can separate bars from everything else, or boulders from everything else, or malachite from everything else, and so on.  I usually like to feed the boulders into a stone cutter/furniture assembler after getting out all the metal I can, so usually I will separate boulders from the smelter's output and let everything else fall in a pile for sorting and smelting by hand.  You can make more complex systems that then separate the slag bars from the useful metal for use in a thunder forge, but you'll need more sorting machines to do it.

Repseki

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #175 on: June 24, 2014, 04:41:52 am »

Ok, cool. I hadn't done a huge amount with all the different machines in my current fort, but now I think the next Gnome fort I make will have to include some sort of over complicated sorting chain that separates just about everything.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #176 on: June 24, 2014, 10:35:24 am »

What's the consensus on the enhancing equipment?  I didn't really test them out thoroughly; the intent was that they should make the undersized gnomes be a reasonable match in combat with the larger races and be worth the complex means of attaining them, but not to turn them into game-breaking powerhouses.  Think they need to be toned down somewhat?

Meph

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #177 on: June 24, 2014, 10:46:29 am »

I havent playtested them, but I know that speed upgrades are always very powerful, because it also affects the attack speed.
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Repseki

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #178 on: June 24, 2014, 11:17:57 am »

I haven't given them to my military dwarves, but the haulers I have wearing Rocket Boots basically move at fastdwarf speed, which sure helps cleaning stuff up. I didn't give them to the military because of the more significant skill rate hit.

What I have had my military in are Steam Armor, Motorized Pants, Spring boots, and Handy Hat helms, first cobalt, then upgraded to Steel. They definitely aren't anything more powerful than a well trained decently armored Dwarf military, so they don't seem to crazy.

After the Vanilla update, when movement and combat speeds are split, it will probably be easier to have items like the Rocket Boots without to much craziness.
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omniclasm

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Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
« Reply #179 on: June 24, 2014, 11:33:24 am »

What's the consensus on the enhancing equipment?  I didn't really test them out thoroughly; the intent was that they should make the undersized gnomes be a reasonable match in combat with the larger races and be worth the complex means of attaining them, but not to turn them into game-breaking powerhouses.  Think they need to be toned down somewhat?

I love them, so much.

It seems they are actually pretty close to being balanced, at least top end. Fully decked out and fully trained, you can generally cause some havoc, but no more so than other races.

Some of them are kind of weak, though, or very gimmicky. Like the helmet that defends against mind control or whatever...very small range of usefulness. Others are just kind of nobrainers...Motorized Pants are way better than the alternatives. Gutsy Pants and automated pants are both solved by a Clockwork Helmet.

Exoskeleton is also rendered nearly useless because of the Clockwork Helmet. It's slight improvements over the clockwork helmet are nowhere near worth the cost of 20% reduced skills and "muscles may atrophy". It also isn't worth losing the 50% agility bonus, or even the 50% strength bonus from other chest pieces. It also prevents training...you just get the "Individual Combat Drill/Resting" that I always get with skeletons...and they gain no skills, just stand there.

Clockwork Armor is also useless because endurance has no point with a Clockwork Helmet.

The various "stay alive without a head" pieces also seem kind of pointless. If you can never move again, what's the point of keeping them alive? And won't they eventually just get killed by whatever ripped off their head anyway?

Boots are also weird. The first tier, spring heals, give a net of 93% (1.25 speed * .75 skills). The next tier gives a net of 100% (2 speed * .5 skills), the last tier gives a 40% net (4 speed * .1 skills). Seems like an odd progression. The hoops you have to jump through to get civilians to actually use rocket boots off duty also really hurts the potential.

Lack of gloves make me sad.

I also suggest maybe changing the special attacks to gloves. Currently, you can just equip multiple shields and gain all of the special attacks. Can use a smart guard while also having an Ion caster, and a fireball caster, etc.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 11:36:15 am by omniclasm »
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