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Author Topic: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode  (Read 105620 times)

vcordie

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #315 on: October 30, 2014, 12:50:26 pm »

Nice. Witcher+runes+bloodsteel pointy stick/chopper+hexes+the poisons that cause slow and paralyze=gg no re for anyone.
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NeoxDark

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #316 on: October 30, 2014, 11:21:25 pm »

That's a little bit of an overkill don't you think? :o But yeah you pretty much described the penultimate kobold champion, avatar of death and koboldery. 8)

Edit: Kobolds don't have access to runes. Hexes+poisons for weapons/ammo and warpaint for leather type armors, plus tattoos from the stolen human workshop and songs from the paupers pub to augment your bolds' stats. No clue if you can get all of the bonuses or just one of the four effects the songs give to a single kobold.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 10:30:42 am by NeoxDark »
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Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #317 on: November 23, 2014, 05:34:40 pm »

This is a pretty minor question, but one I thought I'd ask anyway: what use do kobolds have for honey? As far as I can see they can't brew mead, so honey (and royal jelly) can only be used as cooking ingredients, and the wax from honeycomb can be used for crafts and non-tallow candles?
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Arcvasti

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #318 on: November 23, 2014, 07:14:04 pm »

They really don't have any major use for honey. But there are lots of new critters you can farm in hives in MW and some of them are useful for dyes or for poisons.
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Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #319 on: November 23, 2014, 09:50:17 pm »

Awesome, thanks for getting back to me so quickly about this. You brought up toxins, and that made me wonder curious about how you might organize your ranged squads: I was being a bit ambitious and thinking about a squad of bolas (lizards), bows (kestrels), and blowguns (extraneous non-military signs). But then I think 'why blowguns,' considering that any piece of ammo can be coated with any toxin (right?); and then I think 'why bolas,' considering that the lizards can be shifted to machetes and the resources can be used to make more arrows (or whatever).
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Arcvasti

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #320 on: November 23, 2014, 10:12:20 pm »

Actually, you can ONLY coat blowgun darts with most of the early poisons, like slowpoke and swamp fever. Arrows and bows require outside blueprints, which makes them suboptimal since blueprints are super rare and the race you steal them from is dangerous[Mithral + Ranged weapons + Ambushes = Very nasty.]. Bolas are really powerful, occasionally cutting off limbs[Although that may have been fixed?] if the material they're made of is good enough. They're like ranged scourges, basically.

RE: Military Birthsign allocation:

Usually using Kestrels or maybe Owls[Teacher and Student bonuses go a long way] only for ranged works best. On the other hand, Kestrels can be used for Stealth Masonry, which is really cool. I just thought of this, so feel free to point out any flaws. Kestrels, being Air-Sign, have stealth. So, once they've stealthed, enemies can no longer detect them, especially if they have high Ambusher skill, which can be obtained merely be having a stealthed kobold walk around like that for about a year. Since they're immune to being spotted[Except if someone with high Observer walks right next to them? More research needed,], they can literally perform tasks right under the noses of invaders. Except they spook, because they're just citizens. The solution to fear is crimson[Or whatever colour bloomberries are] warpaint, which gives [NO_FEAR]. An kobold with Masonry enabled, [NO_FEAR] from warpaint and stealth from being Air-Sign could, hypothetically, build things right in the middle of enemies with no/little danger of death or injury.

Awesome, thanks for getting back to me so quickly about this.

I may or may not spend most of my spare time watching this thread so I can give rants/advice/theories on kobolds. I may also take this too seriously.
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Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #321 on: November 24, 2014, 12:14:29 am »

Well hell, as long as you're reading this I'm going to take the opportunity to further pick your brain. I'm still pretty new to the Kobolds (largest fort was about 80) so I'm largely operating on theory, but here's how I divide up my more military-oriented castes. Bear with me here:

Vipers are easy, they're given large daggers and, if they live long enough, seem to turn into wrestlers (knife-using isn't a military skill, right?). What effect does their bite have? I have trouble figuring out the effects of syndromes from the raw files.

Lizards are also easy, since they get such a wide range of weapon bonuses. I usually start them out with pointy sticks, since they're so easy to start making with bone/glass. Although as we've seen earlier, I've also considered using them as Bola throwers, since they get Throwing as a bonus.

Owls I haven't quite decided on: ideally they survive long enough to be teachers for new recruits; though I tend to put them all into a single squad for the same reasons I saw earlier in this thread: they can take the lead on taking down stuff in webs. They don't get any weapon bonuses, but I generally give them choppers.

Badgers and Turtles generally are given clubs, since it's pretty important to have someone dealing blunt damage.

So now, Kestrels: I agree that their stealth bonus is useful in gathering, and I generally have at least one Kestrel-Woodworker to make use of their bowyer bonus (I try to make the rest Coyotes). I don't make them Thieves, though, since that's a destination for extraneous signs, along with Masonry. I mean, how many Rats/Eels does one REALLY need?

The real question here, then, is whether or not a blowgun squad could ALSO be used as such a destination, since most 'Bolds will start with as at least Adequate, and blowguns aren't really used for their damage. The Kestrels' Gunnery bonus could be overlooked so as to have a squad with Bows or Slings, where they make use of their Archery bonus. Do they get a bonus using Bola Throwers; that is, do Bolas rely on both Archery and Throwing?

As I said before I am still a Kobold newbie, and I haven't really figured out their end-game. Case in point: I don't know how to use Witch(ers) or Druids. In fact I just now started a new fort that has a Witcher in it, and I'm wondering if I should start training him in the military, with what weapon, etc.; Same with Druids; do Druids need to be in a squad to transform, how should they be trained/equipped, do they only transform when they make contact with the enemy/do they do that beforehand, etc.

Hmm... oh and while we're at it, is there really any difference between Crystal/Clear/Green glass for the purposes of making weapons? Besides the Material Value, their values in the Raws appear to the same.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 12:19:42 am by Zuzu Reish »
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Arcvasti

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #322 on: November 24, 2014, 12:37:55 am »

The bite of the Viper-Sign just imposes mild debuffs, IIRC. It USED to inject magma into peoples veins, due to a bug, which was absolutely hilarious. All Earth-Sign castes are good for combat, especially Lizards with their high recuperation, a stat that you can't raise normally, even Badgers, which I noticed you neglected somewhat. I'm pretty sure all Earth-Signs eventually get [LIKES_FIGHTING] and other positive combat tags, so they're by far the best. Turtle-Signs are pretty good, since Shield-User is really important, but they lack the built in stats and tags of Earth-Signs and the WEBIMMUNE of Air-Signs. Still better then other non-combat Signs though.

The thing with large daggers, is that they're not very good weapons most of the time, even if Viper-Signs DO get bonuses to them. They can stab pretty well and slash decently, but they're flat out worse then machetes in versatility and don't penetrate as well as pointy sticks. But you DO get them from snatchers, so they're pretty abundant. It might be worth it to jump start your military if you get enough Viper-Signs.Clubs are pretty meh. With Dwarves, their war hammers are super good, because they have a lot of force against a fairly low contact area. Maces are less good, because they have less force against a slightly higher contact area. Whips are decently OP because they have VERY high force against a TINY contact area. Clubs are like Dwarven maces, but with less force, less weight[Because they're smaller then Dwarven weapons are] and about the same contact area.

As for Druids... They need basic armour and a shield, to protect against archer fire and incidental damage before they transform. It might be wise to put them in a Wrestler squad so they can learn Biting and such for their Bear form. Druids need to be in a squad because, while they WILL transform if they're a civilian, they usually won't attack them and can't be ordered to attack a specific target. Druids transform when they see an enemy and then turn back after a week. Then they can't transform and are permanently dizzy for another week. Male Witchers aren't QUITE useless, but Witches are much better. The sickness-causing ability of the Witcher is useful, but Witches are WEBIMMUNE and can shoot webs. It was established a page or two ago that a Witch with a pointy stick of iron grade or higher can butcher about anything as long as they don't get gunned down by other WEBIMMUNES or ranged attacks. Their web ability means that their targets will almost always be helpless and will thus receive only headshots. Pointy sticks are the best for that because they're piercing, which means they penetrate armour really well. I haven't yet had the opportunity to try this in practice yet, but you should be able to use a Witch to get OHK headshots nearly 100% of the time. The haste and bloodsteel spike spells for them are pretty cool, but the stealth is nearly useless. A major problem with ANY stealth, including that of the Air-Signs, is that they never LEAVE stealth and so are ungodly slow for a the first year and a half after they stealth for the first time until they reach legendary Ambusher. You can achieve the same OHK headshot effect with a hallway lined with trap spiders shooting webs through fortifications and Air-Signs[Preferably Owl-Sign, since they're the best melee combatants out of all the Air-Signs] with pointy sticks. Keep in mind that, if you have weapon traps in the web hallway, non Air-Sign or Witch[Not Witcher] kobolds that step on the webs will fall down and take the entire weapon trap to the head. Possibly multiple times. You can turn any Sign into a Druid or Witch and this is in fact an excellent way to use up those unemployed Eel-Sign peasants my forts are always overflowing with.
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Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #323 on: November 25, 2014, 01:55:26 am »

Okay great, I'll try to keep all of this in mind moving forward. I have three questions:

1) What do you actually do with your Viper Signs? Do you train them in non-Knife weapons, or do you train them without any weapons, as wrestlers, to take full advantage of their bite?

2) As I understand it you train your Druids together as wrestlers; do you group your Witche(r)s in a separate squad, make individual members of different squads as Witche(r)s, or how?

3) You've established that Bolas and Blowguns are important, and that Bows might not be worth the opportunity cost; do you ever use Slings?

Thanks again for your advice. I haven't fought anything bigger than goblins as Kobolds; it was a Pyrrhic victory (at best) which is why I'm asking so much.
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Meph

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #324 on: November 25, 2014, 05:47:59 am »

1. Just have them as normal kobolds. The bite is a minor addition, just like the others.

2. Druids turn to bears, so it doesnt matter what weapons they have, they'd drop them. Witchers and Witches just get an extra attack. It would be best to group your witches (which can throw webs) with web-immune castes.

3. Blowguns are awesome because of poison. Bolas do the most damage. Bows have the highest shot force/velocity, they should shoot faster. Slings dont do that much damage.
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Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #325 on: November 26, 2014, 07:50:19 pm »

Awesome, thanks again for your responses. I died to some dragon raptors (yay!) and, on my next embark, I now have a Druid. I realize this is spectacularly statistically improbale, so I'm going to go with your suggestions and see what I like.

Once again, though, I'd like to ask: are there any differences in the weapon value between different glass types? From what I understand from the Raws they all have a higher MAXEDGE (I think that's it?) than steel; I'm wondering if, then, that makes a green glass pointy stick 'better' than a steel one, or is there more to it than that.
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NeoxDark

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #326 on: November 28, 2014, 01:17:48 am »

The green glass is supposed to be 20% worse than iron, clear glass being iron grade, and finally crystal glass being 20% worse than steel. I don't know if this is the case, haven't look at the raws in a while but it said so in the manual. In the last couple of pages a few people pointed out that making glass weapons isn't really worth the trouble, better off going with the far easier to obtain ironbone.

For iron and clear glass:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here are some more raw dumps for comparison purposes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I used rusty steel for comparison because it is (supposedly) 20% worse than steel...oh dear...8000 edge. All the glass material seems to have identical stats compared to its metal counterparts other than the edge stat which is higher for some reason. Glass weapons supposedly break easily and will not last very long and the weapons you can make is limited to pikes, pointy sticks, and large daggers so it is not versatile as actual metals/metal-like materials like ironbone.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 10:49:16 am by NeoxDark »
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Meph

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #327 on: November 30, 2014, 07:07:04 pm »

Weapons dont break, nor do armor. Its safe to use glass.
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Gamerlord

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #328 on: December 01, 2014, 02:29:58 am »

Do you know what would be useful? Four - six stacked lists of materials, from top to bottom, best to worse, in the categories of Edged, Blunt, Spear and Armour. Maybe split armour into armour vs edged, blunt, spear as well. Otherwise we have to search the raws just to figure out if it's worth it to make wolfram armour or just use mithril. Also, to know just how good Bloody X of Armok really is (as far as I can tell in game it's really not that good).

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Kobolds☼ - Everything Kobold Mode
« Reply #329 on: December 01, 2014, 07:10:41 am »

Do you know what would be useful? Four - six stacked lists of materials, from top to bottom, best to worse, in the categories of Edged, Blunt, Spear and Armour. Maybe split armour into armour vs edged, blunt, spear as well. Otherwise we have to search the raws just to figure out if it's worth it to make wolfram armour or just use mithril. Also, to know just how good Bloody X of Armok really is (as far as I can tell in game it's really not that good).

This wiki page exists.  On phone can't link

With data anyway.  Lists aren't quite that simple.  Eg important secondarys like weight and yield at fracture make it hard to say there's just one list for armor
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 07:12:33 am by smakemupagus »
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