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Author Topic: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making  (Read 1933 times)

GavJ

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Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« on: May 27, 2014, 05:47:00 am »

A custom building I modded in for myself that others might appreciate.
A bloomery is a sort of low-tech, low-profile, smaller-batch method of iron smelting, where you don't actually need a forge capable of reaching melting temperatures. Instead you just get the iron hot enough to be spongy, and you hammer it and knock out the brittle impurities while the metal stays together. You can also use oxygen and carbon and steady nerves to make steel using the technique, bits which you then weld together by folding them into bars that are useful.

Thus, this is a realistic method of producing steel without flux. (Iron there's no point since the normal smelter in game is more efficient, and I can't mod that to require flux)
In terms of actual reactions:
1) Build a bloomery which requires fire safe material and a firesafe anvil (for hammering blooms and welding)
2) Smelt 1 iron ore into 4 iron blooms using coal and a fuel.
3) Carburize individual blooms using a coal and a fuel. You have a 50% chance of getting flakes of steel each of 4 times per bloom (it's easy to screw up, which in reality would give you pig iron that you can't use a bloomery to smelt. So in game, 10% chance of a pig iron bar representing errors, which you can use normally if you trade for flux or find some later)
4) Weld 4 flakes into a steel bar using a fuel. (uses blacksmithing)

Each steel bar on average = 3.5 jobs, 6 trees (if using charcoal only), 0.5 ore     (And comes with 0.5 bars worth of pig iron, if you have the means to use it)
Steel bars using the normal flux process = 1.5 jobs, 2.5 trees, 0.25 ore

So this is about double labor and resource intensive, but in return you do not need flux. Only iron and trees, or iron and coal. And it is actually metallurgically realistic still.

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« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 05:50:48 am by GavJ »
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than402

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 05:51:31 am »

i like it.it's balanced,realistic and makes settling into regions without flux much easier.i'll definitely give it a shot.
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Meph

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2014, 06:03:01 am »

Might I use this for a human race I plan? There was a large-ish discussion if they should have steel or not, and this seems like a nice way: Dont give them the normal vanilla DF steel way, but this more labor/resource intensive version. And since I want to base the humans on a no-nonsense-completely-RL-based tech (no magic etc) this would fit just beautifully. :)
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GavJ

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2014, 06:24:07 am »

Yeah sure, go for it.

If you want to be really realistic for the 14th century Europe, which is Toady's target setting IIRC, then it would mostly only be bloomeries, no blast furnaces. Which would require a good bit more work, but is doable. (note that pig iron is truly a waste product in that case, which it was):

1) You would want to add another reaction along the lines of "hammer bloom into iron" that takes one of the bloom_iron bars and makes it into an iron bar, for just one fuel (no extra carbon needed)
2) If possible, you would want to require steel armor and weapons to take a mixture of iron and steel. They would actually have been mostly iron core with steel casings forged onto them. Given the quality of steel at that point in history, this was stronger, because the softer core absorbed shocks without shattering, while the case held the edge and resisted weathering. But I'm not sure if this is worth it for modding. One semi-realistic compromise would be to have the forge make "un-hardened armor/weapon" and then allow an extra carburization at the bloomery to make it hardened armor/weapon. I don't actually know if that'd even be any easier, though.
3) Remove the smelter building entirely
4) Make your own custom smelter building copy for lower temp metal reactions only.
5) If you want to be really obnoxious, you could require the standard flux that is actually used for copper smelting --- iron ore. Lol! Or to be somewhat fairer, allow high quality copper with just a little bit of iron ore flux (something like 2 copper ore + 1 iron ore = 8 pure copper), or lower quality copper without iron ore flux, which is a separate metal you can still make weapons and stuff out of, but modify the physical attributes to be brittler and weaker.
6) Tin and lead don't really require flux, nor does alloying already smelted tin and copper.
7) You should NOT be able to make bronze out of only the ores directly, like in DF.
8) Gold or anything else that comes in native form shouldn't need any flux or anything, since it's not actually ore - it's just melting nuggets into bars, at low temps. A campfire can "smelt" gold nuggets.
9) You could possibly consider arsenic-containing ores yielding stronger bronzes (terahedrite, stibnite), which is discussed in much more depth in another thread active now around here somewhere. You would in this case want 3 types of copper and 3 types of bronze: impure-non-arsenic copper, impure-arsenic copper (both weak themselves), pure copper (stronger), impure-non-arsenic bronze (only marginally better), pure bronze (better still), arsenic-bronze (strongest, not as good as steel)


One way of making it easier to mod all the smelting stuff might be to remove smelters and then add custom reactions to the kiln building, which the game allows you to do. And mildly realistic (kilns would get the job done and may have been used earlier in history, though it's pretty anachronistic for medieval Europe).
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 06:41:37 am by GavJ »
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Meph

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2014, 08:21:10 am »

Quote
3) Remove the smelter building entirely
That one is sadly impossible.
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GavJ

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2014, 01:55:22 pm »

Perhaps you cannot remove the actual building, but what you can do is go in and remove every single iron ore and replace them with "iron oxide" ores or whatever, which your bloomery and custom smelter use but not the default. And so on down the line.

Thus, the smelter will exist, but none of the ingredients for any of its jobs will...
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Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

Meph

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2014, 02:32:48 pm »

True. The game adds an automatic reaction to it for each ore, so if you make iron ore a boulder it would work. But it would lead to all kinds of stockpile issues, the embark finder wouldnt know that there is iron ore (actually iron rock) at embark, and overall its not a neat solution. I did that to Masterwork once in a test, replaced all ores with rocks and made a custom version of the smelter, but... wow, that backfired.
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Dirst

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2014, 02:37:02 pm »

but... wow, that backfired.


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GavJ

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2014, 02:53:18 pm »

Not seeing stuff on the map --> sounds like a bonus to me, for a hyper realism mod.
Stockpiles --> What about just making them "economic" stones generically, if you can do that, without them being ores? If you can't do that, then just tag them "flux." Flux will end up showing up almost everywhere in the whole world map and being uninformative, which is fine by me. And the game will still conveniently avoid building stuff out of your ores automatically.  The smelter would hypothetically allow your tin ore, etc to be used as flux, but it doesn't matter, because none of the reactions using flux have their other ingredients (ores) they need, so it's still an empty husk of a building. In your CUSTOM reactions for custom buildings, you can then specify exactly whatever actual flux you want.

That doesn't seem very messy. Actually almost better than the previous idea! Because it removes the unrealistic knowledge of everything deep in the earth -- both ores and flux (due to flux being so often reported as to be useless)

You could even add a custom smelter reaction labeled "This building is not used" to communicate with the player in game (the smelter would  have either zero or almost zero other jobs listed, since you'd remove all the alloy ones and there would be no technical metal ores in the game).
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GavJ

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2014, 05:07:20 pm »

^
Implemented above ideas. Seems to be working pretty well. Correctly says flux everywhere, metal nowhere on embark. The normal smelter building has no options other than "melt object," and the "realistic smelter" building and the bloomery handle everything else quite well. Things I've added so far (along with accompanying entity stuff and new mats):

Note: brass is now more expensive, considering it being more annoying to make, and similar across the board for other things as appropriate.
Note2: arsenical bronze is about 30% better than bronze on weapon characteristics. Impure copper is about 30%-40% worse than copper.
Note3: "Litharge" is lead oxide, which I plan to allow as a yellow glazing compound in revamped ceramics later (want to make various industries realistic)
Note4: No magma forge version, even though several of these magma would be hot enough for, it is silly to have a magma forge that just never cools off, with no flow, and it's supposed to be adding realism.
Note5: Lead can make bolts. Silver cannot make weapons and stuff (but sterling silver can, which is about 20-30% stronger than silver), few similar changes.

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« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 05:12:47 pm by GavJ »
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Wannabehero

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 03:06:54 pm »

While I commend your attempt at removing the need for flux from the steel making process realistically, bloomeries and the resulting iron blooms often produced higher and extremely variable carbon content iron.  Additionally, due to how the blooms form and how the carbonization and reduction processes work, the iron blooms still contained higher impurity/slag contents than desired for quality steel.

Bloomeries were an efficient method at their time to reduce iron ore to metallic iron, and to allow the removal of the majority of ore dross without the need of additional flux.  But to progress to actual fine steel, the iron would still need to be worked, decarbonized or carbonized further, and purified with additional fluxing agents to remove remaining impurities, elsewise the iron would need to be worked excessively.
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GavJ

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Re: Bloomery - realistic no flux steel making
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2014, 04:35:20 pm »

Quote
But to progress to actual fine steel, the iron would still need to be worked, decarbonized or carbonized further, and purified with additional fluxing agents to remove remaining impurities, elsewise the iron would need to be worked excessively.
In other words, exactly the reactions I already included in my mod, as described in the OP?
The bloomery building in the OP requires something like 8x as much labor as making the same number of steel bars in vanilla DF smelters.
It also requires like 5x as much fuel to represent keeping the stuff hot for all that extra time.

Seems pretty much like excessive working to me! Which was intended.

Note also that flux, in addition to being optional in exchange for more "excessive working" as you say and as the mod does, also could not actually be included in sufficient quantities to replace all that working anyway. A "just add flux" solution is not a realistic option for bloomeries. You can add a LITTLE bit, and it would help a little bit, but not much at the end of the day. If you add amounts similar to those used in blast furnaces, you'd completely screw up the consistency of the metal and/or slag and it would become counterproductive, at those temperatures.



And without getting rid of the original smelter building, trying to make a realistic flux-included reaction seems like an excercise in futility anyway, since by comparison, the vanilla smelter is so hugely unrealistic and overly easy that it would never be balanced in play / nobody would ever use it.
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Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.