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Dwarves - a lot

Dwarves - a little

Dwarves - Never tried them

Gnomes - a lot

Gnomes - a little

Gnomes - Never tried them

Warlocks - a lot

Warlocks - a little

Warlocks - Never tried them

Orcs - a lot

Orcs - a little

Orcs - Never tried them

Kobolds - a lot

Kobolds - a little

Kobolds - Never tried them

[Meph]

That would be dwarves and warlocks. ^^

[LMeire]

I'd play gnomes more often if they didn't almost demand a complete understanding of minecarts. Thus far my greatest accomplishment with the race is creating a 10x10 mandatory suicide booth shaped like a sawmill.

[c0mplex]

I must say that I'm a bit against the idea of stripping stuff away from the dwarves. Mostly I say this because I like seeing dwarves as a sort of middle ground. As said before they can do everything, however I don't think that means they should have things taken away in order to make the other races more unique. I see dwarves in this mod as being a kind of gateway to the other races. You start learning a bit about one area of the game or experiment with a certain play style from the dwarves and realize, "hey, this is kind of like that other race's big thing" and you try out the other race, using the experience from the dwarves as ground to stand on.

I say, instead of making dwarves less like other races, keep with the idea of the other races being extensions to certain elements dwarves have access to. Dwarves are the jacks of all trades, but the other races push and expand on their own prime aspects in ways the dwarves can't.

[Meph]

Let me phrase it that way: Dwarves have so many workshops, that I run out of all lower-case hotkeys, all upper-case hotkeys and all Alt hotkeys.

I dont plan to take away much, but rather merge it together (like playing Music and holding a Speech. Same thing really, could be one workshop), or temporarily remove parts that I feel are not the quality the mod should have (like the Diseases, which at the current state are barely playable)

[IndigoFenix]

While the large amounts of options gnomes have available can be overwhelming, it is actually very possible to start out playing as you would play Vanilla dwarves and ease your way into their game gradually, at least if you're into using traps or animals for defense.  The only important things dwarves do better early on are smelting and melee fighting.  There's also the no automatic traders bit, but that's going to be removed in the next version.

[Meph]

Not the very next, but the one when I add the new races and split them up in teams, yes.

Indigofenix, hope the image and description I made fit your Gnomes.

[IndigoFenix]

Yeah, that works for them 

[Patto]

Meph perhaps instead of focusing on the civs people play a lot (Dwarves), you should focus on those people don't play.

This is because people play the civs which are best to play, and leave the ones which they don't play because they have limited mechanics or interesting features to them.

This is acts similar to survivor bias. In WWII shot allied planes came back with bullet hole in the wings and near the tail fins. So these areas had more armour put on them. The same amount of planes were still being lost. Instead a statistician (I forget the name) suggested that they put armour on the areas which weren't hit, this increased the survivability of the planes, so more came back.

So please focus on the less played civs please and improve their gameplay and increase the time people are playing the mod and the over all enjoyment of it.

[IndigoFenix]

Meph perhaps instead of focusing on the civs people play a lot (Dwarves), you should focus on those people don't play.

This is because people play the civs which are best to play, and leave the ones which they don't play because they have limited mechanics or interesting features to them.

This is acts similar to survivor bias. In WWII shot allied planes came back with bullet hole in the wings and near the tail fins. So these areas had more armour put on them. The same amount of planes were still being lost. Instead a statistician (I forget the name) suggested that they put armour on the areas which weren't hit, this increased the survivability of the planes, so more came back.

So please focus on the less played civs please and improve their gameplay and increase the time people are playing the mod and the over all enjoyment of it.

The problem with this, I think, is that the less played races (gnomes and kobolds) aren't less played due to a deficiency in their design, but due to a lack of exposure.  In both cases there is an initial reason for that: kobolds are meant to be a challenge and gnomes have intimidating complexity, but I think that with a couple of good LPs they could be a lot more popular.  Kobolds have only a couple done and only very recently, and generally with an additional challenge, while the gnomes have yet to be placed in the spotlight even once.

[Meph]

I agree. Its the same conundrum that Toady one faces: People play fortress mode most, but most of his updates are for adv mode. Same reason, I guess.

That would be my idea:
Dwarves: Remove clutter, clean up.
Gnomes: Better manual, easier introduction into more difficult techniques.
Kobolds: New features.
Orcs: New features.
Warlocks: Bugfix, Balancing, and a lot more features, as they are the newest, most untested and smallest race.

IndigoFenix: Again, I agree. Thats why I want to add Gnomes as active race by default (more exposure), and move the Community Forts into the Community Fort section, not the MDF board. That way more new players come to the mod. Maybe you can find the time to play a Gnome Story Fort yourself?

the Orcs and Kobolds havent gotten any new updates in a while, thats why the interest is a bit lower.

[Rumrusher]

I agree. Its the same conundrum that Toady one faces: People play fortress mode most, but most of his updates are for adv mode. Same reason, I guess.

That would be my idea:
Dwarves: Remove clutter, clean up.
Gnomes: Better manual, easier introduction into more difficult techniques.
Kobolds: New features.
Orcs: New features.
Warlocks: Bugfix, Balancing, and a lot more features, as they are the newest, most untested and smallest race.

IndigoFenix: Again, I agree. Thats why I want to add Gnomes as active race by default (more exposure), and move the Community Forts into the Community Fort section, not the MDF board. That way more new players come to the mod. Maybe you can find the time to play a Gnome Story Fort yourself?

the Orcs and Kobolds havent gotten any new updates in a while, thats why the interest is a bit lower.

Yeah it's kinda pops up in meph's adventure mode as well When I jump into the interactions I kinda expect some silly ability they could do... so far I don't know how the gnomes even talk to animals or commune with nature or why warlocks have a page full of blank interactions. Usually I just do away from those races and just randomly select a creature with dfhack to play in adventure mode (and fort mode never stop loving the Antman challenge.).
Thank armok for The Littlest Cheesemaker I can't wait for Misty to build up a cast arranged of Gnomes, Orc, Warlocks, Kobolds, oh and ElvesSuccubi.

[IndigoFenix]

IndigoFenix: Again, I agree. Thats why I want to add Gnomes as active race by default (more exposure), and move the Community Forts into the Community Fort section, not the MDF board. That way more new players come to the mod. Maybe you can find the time to play a Gnome Story Fort yourself?

Man, nobody's going to try it before me, huh?  Well, I don't have a whole lot of free time these days, but maybe I'll give it a shot.

Thank armok for The Littlest Cheesemaker I can't wait for Misty to build up a cast arranged of Gnomes, Orc, Warlocks, Kobolds, oh and ElvesSuccubi.

Oh yes indeed.

[Arcvasti]

Dwarves: Remove clutter, clean up.
Gnomes: Better manual, easier introduction into more difficult techniques.
Kobolds: New features.
Orcs: New features.
Warlocks: Bugfix, Balancing, and a lot more features, as they are the newest, most untested and smallest race.

Mostly sounds good. Additional suggestions:

Dwarves: Yeeeeah, definitely a bit of feature bloat. Their mining, masonry, metallurgy, underground farming of mushrooms, Armok religion, semi-advanced mechanics and stout warriors are the themes I associate most closely with them. Maybe trim down on the more extraneous protrusions. But try and keep most of the stuff relating to the above themes.

Gnomes: The problem I had with gnomes is what do I do before I can do all the cool machine stuff. It seems that there's not enough of an area between their early game nature hijinks and their more late game awesome tech stuff. Although I played a less recent version of gnomes last time I played them. Maybe the new armour and weapon crafting will liven that up a bit. Some more mid game stuff seems like it would be the way to go.

Orcs: I'm actually fine with orcs. They have a lot of features already. They're a tad OP ATM. I like the direction Teelox is going with them.

Warlocks: It would be nice if they had some more accessible magic. Currently, the spells require a LOT of relatively rare reagents to get. More features is good, and I LOVE the sound of the prisoner body parts thing you mentioned earlier.

Kobolds: This might not be a popular opinion, but I LOVE kobolds. Currently, they're the simplest and easiest race to play. Their melee capacity is sort of weak early on, but the rest of their stuff is really good and easy to get. I think they need a more layered tech tree which reaches higher upwards. They don't seem to have any really cool late-game stuff like the orichalcum forges and advanced magic the orcs have or the golems the dwarves have or the awesome machinary the gnomes have or the big ritual thing for the Warlocks. I remember earlier iterations of kobolds having great skill with clay. Maybe that option could be explored again?

The problem with this, I think, is that the less played races (gnomes and kobolds) aren't less played due to a deficiency in their design, but due to a lack of exposure.  In both cases there is an initial reason for that: kobolds are meant to be a challenge and gnomes have intimidating complexity, but I think that with a couple of good LPs they could be a lot more popular.  Kobolds have only a couple done and only very recently, and generally with an additional challenge, while the gnomes have yet to be placed in the spotlight even once.

I might consider doing a Kobold LP at some point. Taking a bit of break from DF ATM, due to marathoning Charmcrafted to finish my turn in time. That's why Questravagers II is stalled. Sorry folks.

[Meph]

High-End kobolds things would include some voodoo and rastafarian stuff. Think black caribbean style.

Warlocks: I noticed that by the time people have access to the library and magic, their normal military is so well trained, that the spells are rather pointless fluff. Earlier spells are planned.

But people are flooding me with new toys atm. Comes from not being here 3 months. Roses scripts alone make for interesting reading.

[IndigoFenix]

Besides the tinkering, there's also been a lot of animal related stuff added to the gnomes since the last official release: combat training, armoring, etc.  I actually prefer to play an animal focused game overall, using only the a small room of machines for more efficient production - it's.a lot simpler to work with, and you'd be surprised at what a couple of high level combat trained armored war tuskoxen can do to a siege.

They're best known for their tech, but really it's pretty balanced between druidism and technology at tis point, so they have a couple of different playstyles to explore.