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[Comrade P.]

Okay, this thread was not about racial identification, sorry for raising the question.

[T-Mick]

Hilaire Belloc did this before the World Wars. He detailed it in The Path to Rome. Of course, back in those days, you could speak only Latin, and at least the Catholic priests could talk to you.

[ragman le bon]

Yeah the Caucasus is considered Europe. Meph, better start planning a trip to Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia! I'm sure you want to go there anyway

[Meph]

I will, but my next one is Ireland/UK. Then maybe Algeria. The next big one Belarus, Russia, Kazachstan, Mongolia, China, North/South-Korea, Japan; in winter/early spring.

The Kaukasus I want to do when I do the Silk Road, which is also an option as a next big trip. I havent done enough planning yet, as I just came back 3 days ago from my last tour.

Hope Urist McScoopbeard doesnt mind the sidetracking, I was somehow expecting him to join this conversation sooner. ^^

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Sorry, I don't! I have been following the thread though. So first of all, thanks for all the advice! And Meph, I will at some point hit you up on the facebooks or something to grt some more information.

Anyways, I don't mind a little derailing. My original question got answered! Though, I do have another about employment... and I guess university too. This really is a big lifestyle choice for me. I'm not too happy with what i've done so far in my life, and that in itself is a pretty big motivating factor, but more importantly I want to change how im going to live the rest of my life... Preferably travelling the world. Unfortunately, im on a bit of an engineering track right now. I know it was suggested that I get some jobs while I travel to help pay for the trip, but i'm talking long term here. There will be times when I'll need a break, or want to settle down, or, god forbid, get too old to do a ton of travelling and for that ill need long term income. A career of sorts. Im an ok writer, but I write how I speak, which means very haltingly and just a little bit awkward. I have an opportunity to go to college and I very sincerely want to, but I dont want to waste 4-6 years on a career path that is going to make me miserable. Suggestions?

[Meph]

If you want to travel and make a career on your own, you dont need the university. What you dont want is to become an employee. What you want is to become an owner or investor, as in: Run your own business or have enough money to live of the interest.

Passive incomes are the best friend of long-term travellers. Because you spend much time travelling and living cheaply, a passive income, even if it is not much, will carry you a long way. Renting out property, getting royalties from art, books, articles, music or games are a way, as is affiliated marketing, sponsoring and running a website with ads.

Working on the move is way more difficult. First you have to get a working permit, which is easy for Australia, NewZealand, Japan and Canada, but hard for other places. Second you need to work, which is no fun. Third thing is that you have to get to know the laws and taxes of each place you work in. OR you work cash-in-hand illegally somewhere, which has its own pros and cons. OR you do what is called WWOOF-ing, which is working for food and lodging, which is legal, because you dont have an income. This allows you to stretch the money you have further and increase your travelling time, but of course does not generate an income in itself. Good examples for this are a PADI Divemaster, you would live on a beach in a tropical region, get free housing and food and go diving every day for free. Sounds good, which is the reason a lot of people do this. (including my girlfriend who is a divemaster, and I am a certified rescue diver. Speaking about me: I also have a passive income from rent, sponsors for free gear, a website, the MDF donations (yeah, thanks everyone) and interest on stuff on banks. Everything just little drops that taken together are good enough to travel for 7 years now without having to work.

I dont think that you have to worry about a career in your age. I know people that have started their own business and went from completely broke to well-earning upper-class citizen in 2-5 years, all without any degrees from any schools or universtities. They are only needed if you want to work FOR someone. No one asks you for your credentials if you start your own thing.

As far as I understand it, being a student in the US would leave you with dept, which is kinda the negative version of that passive income I was rambling on about. Definetily nothing you would want if you really want to leave a life of travelling.

Suggestion: Since you say yourself that you "dont want to waste 4-6 years on a career path that is going to make me miserable", but say that you really want to travel, travel first. Pay no heed to nay-sayers and people that tell you its a bad idea. Because even if it turns out to be one, you will not be worse of for it. The worst that can happen is that you have to move back to the US, get a shitty job to earn money to study. Which, as I gathered, is exactly your situation now?

Just a personal note: I have seen countless career and job opportunities on my tours, have been offered jobs, and very well paying jobs as well... and I wouldnt even blink if someone tells me that I need to move to another country or learn a different language for it, because I do that anyway. It might broaden your horizon to know that every place in the world is nearby, easily reachable and could be a way better home than the home you are used to.

For example I would pay over 1000€ each winter just for heating in Germany. For that money I can fly to a warm country, stay 3 months on a sunny beach, and fly back to Germany. And I think it is a way better value for money.

Another good job is IT or anything you can do online. Be it blogging or coding, anything you can do on the fly with only a laptop and an internetconnection is a real winner when you are travelling. Again, I personally know many people that do that.

Question from me to you: Why Europe? Why the most developed, white-western, expensive, safe, easy, populated area in the world? (which only hands out 90day visas at a time, so you have to leave the Schengen-zone every three months and re-enter)

[Urist McScoopbeard]

If you want to travel and make a career on your own, you dont need the university. What you dont want is to become an employee. What you want is to become an owner or investor, as in: Run your own business or have enough money to live of the interest.

Passive incomes are the best friend of long-term travellers. Because you spend much time travelling and living cheaply, a passive income, even if it is not much, will carry you a long way. Renting out property, getting royalties from art, books, articles, music or games are a way, as is affiliated marketing, sponsoring and running a website with ads.

Working on the move is way more difficult. First you have to get a working permit, which is easy for Australia, NewZealand, Japan and Canada, but hard for other places. Second you need to work, which is no fun. Third thing is that you have to get to know the laws and taxes of each place you work in. OR you work cash-in-hand illegally somewhere, which has its own pros and cons. OR you do what is called WWOOF-ing, which is working for food and lodging, which is legal, because you dont have an income. This allows you to stretch the money you have further and increase your travelling time, but of course does not generate an income in itself. Good examples for this are a PADI Divemaster, you would live on a beach in a tropical region, get free housing and food and go diving every day for free. Sounds good, which is the reason a lot of people do this. (including my girlfriend who is a divemaster, and I am a certified rescue diver. Speaking about me: I also have a passive income from rent, sponsors for free gear, a website, the MDF donations (yeah, thanks everyone) and interest on stuff on banks. Everything just little drops that taken together are good enough to travel for 7 years now without having to work.

I dont think that you have to worry about a career in your age. I know people that have started their own business and went from completely broke to well-earning upper-class citizen in 2-5 years, all without any degrees from any schools or universtities. They are only needed if you want to work FOR someone. No one asks you for your credentials if you start your own thing.

As far as I understand it, being a student in the US would leave you with dept, which is kinda the negative version of that passive income I was rambling on about. Definetily nothing you would want if you really want to leave a life of travelling.

Suggestion: Since you say yourself that you "dont want to waste 4-6 years on a career path that is going to make me miserable", but say that you really want to travel, travel first. Pay no heed to nay-sayers and people that tell you its a bad idea. Because even if it turns out to be one, you will not be worse of for it. The worst that can happen is that you have to move back to the US, get a shitty job to earn money to study. Which, as I gathered, is exactly your situation now?

Just a personal note: I have seen countless career and job opportunities on my tours, have been offered jobs, and very well paying jobs as well... and I wouldnt even blink if someone tells me that I need to move to another country or learn a different language for it, because I do that anyway. It might broaden your horizon to know that every place in the world is nearby, easily reachable and could be a way better home than the home you are used to.

For example I would pay over 1000€ each winter just for heating in Germany. For that money I can fly to a warm country, stay 3 months on a sunny beach, and fly back to Germany. And I think it is a way better value for money.

Another good job is IT or anything you can do online. Be it blogging or coding, anything you can do on the fly with only a laptop and an internetconnection is a real winner when you are travelling. Again, I personally know many people that do that.

Question from me to you: Why Europe? Why the most developed, white-western, expensive, safe, easy, populated area in the world? (which only hands out 90day visas at a time, so you have to leave the Schengen-zone every three months and re-enter)

Well, a few things here. First of all, I've got the mula for university, little to no debt for me. I WANT to learn, its just that I ALSO want to travel. I'm not rich, but parents have enough money to pay, and I recieved an academic scholarship. So again, I want the education, and potentially very helpful skills, but I don't want to waste the time on a career that I can't use (engineering) because of my lifestyle. To answer your question... Europe, because i've never been there. My great grandparents were immigrants, and I want to go see the land where they lived. I want to see where western civilization grew up. For me, this travelling is my way of developing, I feel crowded and without time in my life, and I just want to get out and see SOMEWHERE else and see what its like just to... adventure. Aside from ancestry why would I choose Europe though? I don't know, honestly, i'm not ready for India or China, or anywhere else for that matter. I just thought that this would be a good jumping off point.

EDIT: Also, I should say: I'm very impressed with you Meph, kudos on your worldly travels and affairs!

[Meph]

I do understand. I started travelling when I was 19, and it has changed my view of... everything. You have a lot of time to think about most things you never think about in your safe, routine life at home... you meet people from all kinds of social, economic, religious and ethnic backgrounds. You might even live like them yourself for some time. Obviously I am talking less developed countries right now.

For Europe I would clearly recommend Couchsurfing and the cheaper hostels. The Couchsurfing to save money and meet locals, the hostels to be more independant and meet travellers. Stay one night in a 8-bed dorm, meet 7 people from 7 different countries, each one with a story to tell. You might end up with tourgroups or school classes and party people now and then, but overall I have good experiences from hostels.

I wanted to travel 1 year and then go to university btw, but changed that decision after the first year. So far I'd say it has been the right decision, but I am 27. (since two days ) So I dont know if it will backfire when I am 45. But most people that I know that started like me, and are now in their 30-40 are doing very well with their own projects, be it blogs, books, tv series, guiding...

My point behind the question about Europe was twofold: One the one hand it is very expensive, so instead of 1 month in Europe you could do 2-3 somewhere else, and on the other hand it is partly similar to the US. There is a massive difference in culture (I personally love the landscape in the US, but could never live there, sorry), but its not too alien. Jumping head first into some chaotic hindu world or sub-saharan africa is more challenging, but way more rewarding as well. From my point of view it sounds like a mountaineer, who says: "I will not climb anything difficult, but hike up hills with paved trails." Because Europe is a lot, but not adventure-material. Its too developed, too foreseeable... I dont want to imply that adventures are something good. Most of those I had are rather things I didnt like while they were happening, but I remember them fondly... they do build character.

But you are 18. (if your profile is correct). I dont know why you say that you dont like your accomplishments so far, because how could you have any? You barely had time to do anything. And why worry about "want to settle down, or, god forbid, get too old" now? You literally just got a bit of freedom by having that magic number on your ID. Even when you are twice as old as you are now, you would still be young and could train to climb Mt. Everest or fly to the ISS. But with 18 you cant fuck up anything... because even failures are good. How else should you learn and get life experience?

And PS: Thank you.

EDIT: Some more background info on money and travels: http://www.alastairhumphreys.com/i-headed-towards-africa-because-i-have-never-been-there/

EDIT2: Ok, lets go into try-hard-mode. I have something for this:

Wanderer
To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... cruising, it is called.

Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

I’ve always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can’t afford it. What these men can’t afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of security. And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine – and before we know it our lives are gone.

What does a man need – really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in – and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That’s all – in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade. The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed.

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

sterling hayden

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I do understand. I started travelling when I was 19, and it has changed my view of... everything. You have a lot of time to think about most things you never think about in your safe, routine life at home... you meet people from all kinds of social, economic, religious and ethnic backgrounds. You might even live like them yourself for some time. Obviously I am talking less developed countries right now.

Mhm, I feel very cloistered. I really want to meet new people and experience different cultures.

For Europe I would clearly recommend Couchsurfing and the cheaper hostels. The Couchsurfing to save money and meet locals, the hostels to be more independant and meet travellers. Stay one night in a 8-bed dorm, meet 7 people from 7 different countries, each one with a story to tell. You might end up with tourgroups or school classes and party people now and then, but overall I have good experiences from hostels.

I will certainly look into it!

My point behind the question about Europe was twofold: One the one hand it is very expensive, so instead of 1 month in Europe you could do 2-3 somewhere else, and on the other hand it is partly similar to the US. There is a massive difference in culture (I personally love the landscape in the US, but could never live there, sorry), but its not too alien. Jumping head first into some chaotic hindu world or sub-saharan africa is more challenging, but way more rewarding as well. From my point of view it sounds like a mountaineer, who says: "I will not climb anything difficult, but hike up hills with paved trails." Because Europe is a lot, but not adventure-material. Its too developed, too foreseeable... I dont want to imply that adventures are something good. Most of those I had are rather things I didnt like while they were happening, but I remember them fondly... they do build character.

Hm... I guess, I should just jump straight in then?

But you are 18. (if your profile is correct). I dont know why you say that you dont like your accomplishments so far, because how could you have any? You barely had time to do anything. And why worry about "want to settle down, or, god forbid, get too old" now? You literally just got a bit of freedom by having that magic number on your ID. Even when you are twice as old as you are now, you would still be young and could train to climb Mt. Everest or fly to the ISS. But with 18 you cant fuck up anything... because even failures are good. How else should you learn and get life experience?

I get this a lot... I didnt have a bad childhood, but it was so boring, I never had an interesting experience, i'm embarrassed of that. I was very cowardly when I was younger, and that gets to me. Can't fuck up anything at 18? My god, i've been fucking up my entire life! and not in a good way, I didn't live life the way it should be lived, and I still don't... but I want to. I'm not sure what I'm ready to sacrifice for that yet though.

Wanderer
To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... cruising, it is called.

Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

I’ve always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can’t afford it. What these men can’t afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of security. And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine – and before we know it our lives are gone.

What does a man need – really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in – and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That’s all – in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade. The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed.

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

sterling hayden

That really puts some perspective on this... I have more thinking to do before I know if I REALLY want to do this.

[Meph]

Can't fuck up anything at 18? My god, i've been fucking up my entire life!

Why? Are you in prison? So far in debt that you can never pay it off? Addicted to drugs? Have 3 kids already? Chronicly injured yourself so bad that you cant move independantly, like sitting in a wheelchair caused by your own mistakes? Did you somehow ended up in a third world village with a life expectancy of 45 years, no running water, eletricity, school or even paved road and cant leave?

Wait a second. You can read and write, have a roof above your head and access to a computer with internet. That puts you in the luckiest and wealthiest 2% of all the people in the world.

You see where I am going with this. Maybe you think, from your own perspective, that you "done fucked up now". But maybe, seen from an outside perspective, without that selective tunnel vision, you do not have such a fucked up life.

Anyway: You are right. Big decisions ahead.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Can't fuck up anything at 18? My god, i've been fucking up my entire life!

Why? Are you in prison? So far in debt that you can never pay it off? Addicted to drugs? Have 3 kids already? Chronicly injured yourself so bad that you cant move independantly, like sitting in a wheelchair caused by your own mistakes? Did you somehow ended up in a third world village with a life expectancy of 45 years, no running water, eletricity, school or even paved road and cant leave?

Wait a second. You can read and write, have a roof above your head and access to a computer with internet. That puts you in the luckiest and wealthiest 2% of all the people in the world.

You see where I am going with this. Maybe you think, from your own perspective, that you "done fucked up now". But maybe, seen from an outside perspective, without that selective tunnel vision, you do not have such a fucked up life.

Anyway: You are right. Big decisions ahead.

Maybe you're right, but in my opinion one of the biggest fuck ups is not doing anything with your life. Which is what i've done, i've been philosophical enough from a relatively young age to realize just how little i've done with my life. God, I spent my first 13 years in existence just sitting inside playing videogames, and the next 5 years in a deep depression over it. There's more than one way to fuck up bad, and they don't all necessarily stem from privileges that you do or don't have.

[martinuzz]

First thing to do: exercise.
Put on a backpack, and build up distance walking stamina.
Start with a 20 mile walk, with just some food and drink for the journey in your backpack.
if that does not tire you, next time add 2 or 3 bricks to your backpack.

Slowly build up mileage, and carried weight. If you can walk 40 miles a day with 30-40kg on your back, without your feet or legs killing you afterwards, you've got some decent built up stamina.

Do not go on long hikes, without first training for it. It won't be fun if you skip it.

Then, once you get to Europe;
most western European countries are safe enough not to need self defense training to be safe.
However, be aware that in most countries, it is against the law to camp out in the wild. Fines aren't funny either. So before you go, either make sure you booked all your campings and hotels in advance, or try alternative options on the internet like farmers who don't mind travellers putting up a tent on their lands for a day or two. Be wary though, there's good and bad people out there. Check posted reactions to these kind of deals, to see if travellers that went there before you can rate it as trustworthy.

As for languages.. English will get you a long way in the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and all Scandinavian countries, Germans aren't bad at english for most part either, although percentually there's less people proficient at english over there than in aforementioned countries. France and Italy are still lagging way behind, even a lot of youth there still do not speak english. Spain is similar, although I do think more people in Spain can speak english than in France or Italy. If you do feel the need to learn an extra language, I'd advise spanish, since that is going to be helpful all around the world.

I do not know much about the Central, and Eastern European countries, as far as travelling safety is concerned. You'd have to ask other sources for more info on those.

[Sheb]

A nice trick, at least in Belgium and France, is to look for churches. You have one in every village in the countryside, they always have a faucet to fill your bottle (look near the cemetary) and they usually have a plot of land you can camp on if you can find the priest to ask him.

[Meph]

Slowly build up mileage, and carried weight. If you can walk 40 miles a day with 30-40kg on your back, without your feet or legs killing you afterwards, you've got some decent built up stamina.

Thats utter nonsense.

The "best" ultra-hikers, which actually can do 40 miles per day, carry about 5kg. Not 30-40. My largest backpack for a 1 year trip was 25. And I was inexperienced at the time, and didnt even go hiking with it. Now my backpack + water/food + bicycle weights less than 25kg. When I go hiking, I carry between 5 and 10. And thats for an unspecified time, its the same weight for 1 week, or 1 year.

Through-hikers on the PCT, AT and CDT, which do several thousand miles in one go, have an average mileage per day of 22 miles. And thats on trails, soft earth. Not on concrete, like most hiking tours you find in Europe. Walking on concrete messes up the soles of your feet. I once walked 75km a day around the Chiemlake, and my feet were killing me. But I can walk hundrets of kilometers of trails without any problems, if you dont overdo it like that.

For proper, expert advice, look here: http://andrewskurka.com/how-to/ Andrew knows how to hike, I have to give him that, even if his international travel knowledge is rudimentary.

most western European countries are safe enough not to need self defense training to be safe.

All countries are safe enough not to need self defense training.

However, be aware that in most countries, it is against the law to camp out in the wild. Fines aren't funny either. So before you go, either make sure you booked all your campings and hotels in advance, or try alternative options on the internet like farmers who don't mind travellers putting up a tent on their lands for a day or two. Be wary though, there's good and bad people out there. Check posted reactions to these kind of deals, to see if travellers that went there before you can rate it as trustworthy.

I wild-camped literally hundrets of nights in Europe, never got anyone complain or call the police, or get fined. And I never camped on a camp ground, and I never booked anything in advance. That advice is so extremely wrong. Sorry to say this outright, but you just dont do stuff like that if you are on an open-ended tour that might lead you this way one week and that way the next. You do not book anything in advance, because it narrows your options down. You lose freedom by doing so, and artificially construct a time schedule you have to keep.

[Sheb]

Yeah, even if it is illegal to wild-camp in many place, the worse I ever got was police coming around, telling me it was bad and that I'd have to leave the next day.