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[mifki]

Maybe crashes are from people running low on RAM while using TwbT. (I'd guess that rendering more Z-levels at once requires more RAM.) Maybe 64-bit Dwarf Fortress will reduce the issues with users crashing.

No, it doesn't require more memory. It has to be something with synchronisation, maybe number of cores matter, I'll test it again on another laptop soon.

[DAOWAce]

Maybe crashes are from people running low on RAM while using TwbT.

Considering my crash was barely 20 minutes from a fresh startup, I doubt it's a RAM issue.  My game uses about 815MB and only very slowly increases, if at all.  It's not LAA, but that'd really only be a problem during world generation.  I've switched it anyway, never hurts.

I've disabled multilevel from initializing now (instead of disabling after the fact), so next time I decide to play, I guess I'll see if that did anything.

Oh, and I just remembered I added "twbt redraw_all 1" due to graphical issues.  I think the crashing became more frequent after that, but I could be mistaken. At any rate, it helps tremendously with my graphic set so I won't consider playing without it (bugged me for ages until I discovered the fix).

Edit: 6C/12T CPU (5930K).  Forced DF to run on physical cores, because it's a game, and 99% of games have performance degradation if using virtual cores.

[lethosor]

A question to those experiencing crashes:

Do the crashes tend to occur right when you attempt to do something in-game (i.e. does it crash right as you press or click something)? Or do they tend to happen when you're just leaving DF to run on its own?

I ask because of this.

[Pvt. Pirate]

i barely ever have no building designations ever. They are always busy building something, but the game crashed randomly, so i can't tell if it was linked to that.
on the other hand: in the 43.03-r07 LNP with multilevel 0, the game only crashed after excessive Alt-Tabbing.

[lethosor]

Does the game crash randomly when you interact directly with it, or regardless of whether or not you're interacting with it?

[Pvt. Pirate]

Does the game crash randomly when you interact directly with it, or regardless of whether or not you're interacting with it?

when i used 43.03-r04 LNP, it crashed randomly, but that meant also sometimes when i pressed keys too fast in sequence like b-w-l or b-C-w. deactivating multilevel only reduced the frequency of the crashes, but didn't get rid of it.

now with the 43.03-r07 LNP, it only crashed when switching to other windows frequently. although i haven't played that much with that version yet, it didn't crash for like 4 hours yesterday.

[DAOWAce]

I ask because of this.

Interesting..  I'll check if I have any pending designations around holes.  Maybe that was indeed the cause of the random crash when I zoomed to a different level.

As for my other crashes, I honestly can't remember.  Been playing a single fort on and off since .42 came out (my first one actually).  I can vaguely remember the game seeming to crash when I did a zoom to a different z-level recently (within last month), but I'm not sure about the ones prior to those.

Edit: I remember another crash; it happened when I was saving the game (from the menu).  Thought it was weird that the game closed immediately after the saving screen, then realized it probably crashed.  Still saved though.

[DAOWAce]

Oh, and I just remembered I added "twbt redraw_all 1" due to graphical issues.  I think the crashing became more frequent after that, but I could be mistaken.

Turns out that's exactly what's causing the silent crashes.

My game seemed to crash after a short amount of time after every reload.  I ended up trying TWBT_LEGACY and progressed through just fine.  Played for about 2 hours and saved.

Came back, switched to TWBT, played for about 10 minutes.. then crash about 12 seconds after a quicksave.

Reload.. 12 seconds, crash.

Went through my .init files changing stuff; after I removed the redraw_all command, the game progressed.

So.. something about it redrawing tiles is making it crash.  This is a shame, as it gets rid of the nasty graphical issues with my graphic set (phantom tiles all over).  I guess my random crashes after long play sessions before finding this command were due to multilevel.

I suppose a save would help debug it, so: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dkud40cqkv5ooia/twbt%20crash%20dungeonset.rar

0.42.06-r04  LNP
DungeonSet graphics
'twbt redraw_all 1' in dfhack.init

Just load and wait about 12 seconds, will CTD.

Don't know if anything else is needed.

[mifki]

Thanks, DAOWAce, it definitely crashes with your save and tileset.

I believe it's caused by overrides and synchronisation on multi-core CPUs, there's indeed some not very good code which is unfortunately difficult to fix. DungeonSet has a LOT of overrides - almost 4000 lines, and with redraw_all=1 all map tiles are updated each frame increasing the chance of crash. I'll see what can be done here, but there's a chance it's not possible to fix completely without big changes to TWBT, unless it's just a mistake somewhere in the code.

And crashes caused by multilevel rendering seem to be a separate issue because I believe not everyone experiencing them have so many overrides, and also I recently had several crashes with the Remote plugin where there are no overrides at all. If anyone experiencing crashes when building something over empty tiles or something else multilevel-related that are easily reproducible, please share your saves.

[Pvt. Pirate]

would it be possible to only force redraw for when the viewport is moved?
so it wouldn't have to redraw each and every frame, but only the moment it has to draw new tiles anyway.

[Bumber]

would it be possible to only force redraw for when the viewport is moved?
so it wouldn't have to redraw each and every frame, but only the moment it has to draw new tiles anyway.

Does the issue it fixes only occur when moving the viewport, or when any tile changes?

[DAOWAce]

It only happens when moving the viewport IIRC.

Das did a short video explaining the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDbuQ8CnGm0

[mifki]

I have probably fixed some multilevel-related crashes in version 5.66, some DF rendering weirdness I didn't know about, that is. I wasn't able to reproduce them, but the same code was crashing Remote, so I guess it may be crashing TWBT in some situations too.

DAOWAce, why are you still using 0.42.06? My new releases usually don't include plugins for older DF versions.

[DAOWAce]

DAOWAce, why are you still using 0.42.06? My new releases usually don't include plugins for older DF versions.

6 8 year old fortress, my first one ever, still going strong.

I heard upgrading versions can break your game, so I'd rather avoid the chance of losing my save and starting over.  (plus, I'm used to Workflow and don't know how the manager in v43 works or the consequences if it was randomly disabled)

Edit: Also, it's 2 versions behind the vanilla game and .04 had some pretty major bug fixes.  Too bad it looks like the dfhack folks are going right to .05 with 64bit support.  An alpha release is out and says 32bit support "should be" as good as usual, but I don't know if other plugins will work with it.

[lethosor]

0.43 is compatible with saves back to 0.40.03, and you can always make a copy of your current save if you don't want to lose it or want to roll back.
That said, the workflow/manager change is a good point. I'm pretty sure workflow still works without issues, but I don't know how well it would play with the new manager.