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[mifki]

Yeah, I was thinking of enabling multilevel, but disabling the override tiles.

I was looking at installing more tilesets for MasterworkDF and I'm trying to come up with a good way to swap tilesets using TWBT, but the override tiles make it difficult... I have some unique ones per tileset, some that are always on, and other that should probably be disabled if you play with ASCII or an ASCII-like tileset.

I was really hoping to get GemSet to work, but its rather difficult. Tilesets, overrides, TWBT font tileset, creature sprites, different size (32x)... but that is another topic.

It's not possible to split them, but I can add some options if you need, however I didn't quite get what exactly you want.

[Meph]

Sorry if I was incoherent. I meant disabling the overrides, while leaving multilevel active.

You can see multiple levels, you have two tilesets for the game/graphics and the menu/text; but the plugin ignores everything that's inside the overrides.txt in data/init.

The reason it would be useful (at least for me) is, that I soon have over 30 tilesets in my mod, but only one set of overrides. The graphic-style of the overrides fits some tilesets, but looks awkward with others. So I'd like to keep them for a few of the tilesets, but otherwise disable them.

Example:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's an ASCII-style tileset, yet on the workshops some overrides are still active and show tiles from Phoebus. The solution for me would be to make 30 override files, or disable overrides when using that tileset.

Oh, and my usual request: Caste-specific creature overrides? Please? Male/Female sprites... different sprites for worker, warrior and queen bees/hornets/ants... cool custom races with multiple castes... ?

[mifki]

Sure I can add a command to switch overrides. What I didn't understand was "swap tilesets using TWBT" and why you can't just rename overrides.txt when changing tileset settings.

Creature overrides... yeah.. I started to work on a completely new TWBT implementation, and while it had many advantages like improved performance and greater flexibility, it turned out to be more difficult to implement and probably not worth it. I mean, I'm not actively developing it now, once I have time, I'll look into creature graphics again to understand whether it can be an addition to the existing creature graphics handling or would require reimplementing it completely.

[Rydel]

Meph, in your case, would it be possible to store an overrides.txt and any graphics for it in a folder with the graphics pack, then have a separate "Default" folder with the current graphics, which would be pulled from if the selected graphics pack doesn't contain an override?

[PeridexisErrant]

FWIW PyLNP handles separate overrides for each graphics pack, just as we handle different tilesets.  It's not that hard to set up...

I'd also appreciate an interface more like standard DFHack plugins though, where you have to explicitly "enable $plugin" for anything to happen, and a single dylib can provide multiple commands.  Separate commands for 'use text tileset', enabling multilevel, and using item sprites would be nice.  Perhaps "enable twbt/multilevel/itemsprites" respectively? 

[Meph]

FWIW PyLNP handles separate overrides for each graphics pack, just as we handle different tilesets.  It's not that hard to set up...

Yes, I can create a override file for each set, using an empty one for each tileset that does not use overrides. I'll actually do that today, I'm working on installing Gemset, would have to do that anyway for it.

 I just found it strange that you can't disable (unload?) the plugin or part of the plugin. The other dfhack plugins can be turned on/off on command, with TWBT it seems you have to close DF, remove the file, replace the automaterial/resume/mousquery plugins with the Non-TWBT versions, and restart DF.

EDIT: Slightly related to that: Is there are maximum number of override tilesets you can use? Does a high-number affect performance in a noticeable way? For example both the MasterworkDF mod and GemSet have 8 sets. The mod override file has about 1600 lines, the Gemset override file has 4000 lines.

[mifki]

FWIW PyLNP handles separate overrides for each graphics pack, just as we handle different tilesets.  It's not that hard to set up...

Yes, I can create a override file for each set, using an empty one for each tileset that does not use overrides. I'll actually do that today, I'm working on installing Gemset, would have to do that anyway for it.

 I just found it strange that you can't disable (unload?) the plugin or part of the plugin. The other dfhack plugins can be turned on/off on command, with TWBT it seems you have to close DF, remove the file, replace the automaterial/resume/mousquery plugins with the Non-TWBT versions, and restart DF.

EDIT: Slightly related to that: Is there are maximum number of override tilesets you can use? Does a high-number affect performance in a noticeable way? For example both the MasterworkDF mod and GemSet have 8 sets.

What is a use case for unloading TWBT? I could never understand that.

You don't need to replace automaterial/resume/mousquery plugins - TWBT versions work just fine without it.

There's maximum number of tiles that would fit in one texture of maximum size supported by your GPU. For each tileset all its tiles are loaded, having tilesets with half of tiles empty/unused is bad. However, this limit is probably reachable on old GPUs only. As for the performance, a large number of overrides for a single tile number may affect performance.

[Meph]

Thank you

What is a use case for unloading TWBT? I could never understand that.

Testing, looking for sources of crashes. I got a lot of reports from players about crashes that stopped when they started playing without TWBT. It would also help comparing the before/after look of overrides.

You don't need to replace automaterial/resume/mousquery plugins - TWBT versions work just fine without it.

That's good to know, thanks

There's maximum number of tiles that would fit in one texture of maximum size supported by your GPU. For each tileset all its tiles are loaded, having tilesets with half of tiles empty/unused is bad. However, this limit is probably reachable on old GPUs only. As for the performance, a large number of overrides for a single tile number may affect performance.

Ok. Guessed as much about the first part, the last part about "large number of overrides for a single tile number" is good to know, although probably a rare case.

In the end I'll make overrides for each tileset, which will fix the issue I had.

[PeridexisErrant]

What is a use case for unloading TWBT? I could never understand that.

Testing, looking for sources of crashes. I got a lot of reports from players about crashes that stopped when they started playing without TWBT. It would also help comparing the before/after look of overrides.

You can always "unload twbt", or any other plugin.

@Mifki - I have multilevel as an optional setting in my pack, due to crash reports.  This means I have to disable it in one init file, and conditionally enable it later.  "enable multilevel" with it off by default would be a cleaner interface, and remove potential ordering problems.

[lethosor]

No, you can't.

I just found it strange that you can't disable (unload?) the plugin or part of the plugin.

Also, multilevel wouldn't have to be a separate plugin in order to support "multilevel enable|disable" syntax - things like mousequery and embark-tools do this already.

[mifki]

@Mifki - I have multilevel as an optional setting in my pack, due to crash reports.  This means I have to disable it in one init file, and conditionally enable it later.  "enable multilevel" with it off by default would be a cleaner interface, and remove potential ordering problems.

I don't understand the problem. There's "multilevel N" cmd with 0 to disable. And 0 is the default value.

[DAOWAce]

So multilevel is the problem?  Looked up my last crash report and it was TWBT as the faulting module.

Game looks far better with multilevel (and my graphic pack [DungeonSet] kinda requires it to not have weird ASCII characters replace lower levels), losing it really sucks.

My game's crashed an unfortunate amount of times the last few times I tried to play DF.  I always quit for a while afterward because it really sucks to lose ~30 minutes of work/progress.  Maybe I'm going to have to grin and bear it just for the sake of not having my time wasted..

Edit: I disabled multilevel after loading.

My game still crashed after about 20 minutes of the client running.  It froze when I attempted to zoom to a hotkey (which I did many times before) and then closed itself (silent crash; reports it in Windows event log but no popup saying it crashed).

Either multilevel isn't the problem, or setting it to 0 doesn't actually disable it fully.. at least if started with it enabled?  No idea, hopefully someone can provide some insight into what the issue could be.

I'm still running the 0.42.06 version of the LNP, for clarity. (Don't want to risk upgrading my save..)

[PeridexisErrant]

I've opened an issue on Github, but given that most of the modders are on the forums I though it would be worth cross-posting.

The DFgraphics group has a two-part feature request:

• Support multiple overrides files, eg anything matching "overrides*.txt"
• Support item subtypes by name and generally discourage use of numbers as IDs

This will allow modders to provide substantial extensions for various graphics packs, to give a native look to their new content.  I'm working on some fairly major changes to PyLNP to support the other end of this, so some indication of whether you'll be able to help out (and a timeline if so) would be awesome 

[mifki]

I've opened an issue on Github, but given that most of the modders are on the forums I though it would be worth cross-posting.

The DFgraphics group has a two-part feature request:

• Support multiple overrides files, eg anything matching "overrides*.txt"
• Support item subtypes by name and generally discourage use of numbers as IDs

This will allow modders to provide substantial extensions for various graphics packs, to give a native look to their new content.  I'm working on some fairly major changes to PyLNP to support the other end of this, so some indication of whether you'll be able to help out (and a timeline if so) would be awesome 

Item subtypes by name would be good, but required a lot of code to handle all the item types. Multiple overrides files is easy and I will do that in first place. I just need to find time to get back to TWBT and do all this and other stuff.

As for the crashes, I mentioned before that the biggest problem here is that I can't reproduce them. I see many people reporting them, but I was really trying a lot, on different Windows machines and versions, and it crashed just couple times, and I even don't know if it's the same issue. I'd be happy to fix the crashes of course but it's difficult if I can't reproduce them at all.

[jecowa]

Maybe crashes are from people running low on RAM while using TwbT. (I'd guess that rendering more Z-levels at once requires more RAM.) Maybe 64-bit Dwarf Fortress will reduce the issues with users crashing.