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[Sean Mirrsen]

"Well, you certainly have a knack for making guns that look like engine blocks.  Hopefully it'll be as impressive as your previous designs."  The body examines the block for a few more seconds, then turns to Anton and shrugs "So what does it do?  How does it work?"

"It's funny that you ask that, because... I don't actually know. You see, "knowing" how it works would imply activating it, and I was rather hesitant to do it inside the lab after everything I'd done to the poor thing."

He puts his hand on the prototype's top edge, careful not to touch one of the controls. "Concealed inside this little box, is what once was, or perhaps would be, a High Energy Projector. I've... slightly rearranged it, and given what it does to concrete walls, and Battlesuits, I'd like to be out of line of sight when it is activated. But what it does to Battlesuits specifically, got me interested.

I got my hands on the R&D research data from a long ways back, when the Projector was created. Just figuring out how to read those diagrams was an epic undertaking in itself, but I got through and started back-engineering the design from there, looking for ways to alter its output. I then rebuilt most of the weapon from the data, rearranged some of the components, added copies of other components, and put about half of those on a mechanical moving rig that this knob here is attached to. I'm working off a theory and lots of paperwork here, and like I said I haven't actually turned the device on since building it, but here's what it's trying to achieve.

You know how when you fire a HEP, it creates this nice, wide beam, great for making walkable tunnels in rock and vaporizing masses of people in one swing? When that hits a Battlesuit, the amount of energy delivered is so high that the outer layer of armor ablates with enough force to knock the whole machine to the ground, but it doesn't get much in the way of penetration, and fails to cripple the suit because it's so resistant to energy weapons.

What I am trying to do here, with an array of field-shaping deflectors that are attached to that knob, is to compress all that energy, all of that wide tunnel-making stream of power... into a beam about this thick." He brings his hand up to his eye, index finger and thumb curled together, making a little round hole about a centimeter across, which he peeps through at the Saint-bot, and smiles.

[piecewise]

Well, there isn't much to talk about, really. We just need better (bigger, more powerful, more efficient) weapons, new tech to perhaps defend the ships, etc. We're likely not going to invent any new fleet warfare paradigms, ships like the Black Death are powerful in principle but probably not cost-effective. We can test that, I suppose.

There isn't much to talk about?  Really?  We aren't going to decide whether to use missiles, lasers, railguns, gauss weapons, PSLs, HEPs, crystalline projectors, mindfuckers, nuke teleporters, fighters, rolly surface turrets, overloading manip launchers (cyanine missiles?), oversized automanips, AoW SM spheres, or whatever?  There's plenty of options I missed there.

How about fleet composition?  Are we using mostly heavy capital ships, with cruisers being focused on stealth?  Lots of skirmish-oriented cruisers, with a few battleships sniping?  Massive supercarriers with huge fighter swarms?  A generic balanced fleet?  Lots and lots of almost unarmored blitz ships?

What are we focusing on in our design balances?  Are our ships super-heavily armored, so that we have minimum losses?  Do they have massive amounts of stealth tech, so we can choose our battles and have excellent intelligence?  Armed to the teeth, so that they can destroy a UWM fleet many times their own size?  Extremely mobile, so that we always have the option of fleeing, and repositioning is simple?  Cheapness, so that we can close the attrition gap?


My preference would be heavily armored capships, primarily using upscaled PSLs mixed with FELs and possibly mindfuckers, with the cruisers being stealth oriented troop carriers specialized for orbital bombardment.  Add in a few AoW amp stealth fighters.  Does this line up well with your preference?  Do either of our preferences line up with Pyro's?  Or Radio's?  Or PW's judements on what would be actually effective?

I don't know.  So we should probably talk about it.  If nobody does, I'm going to build whatever I think is best, unless someone else builds something themselves.  A poor decision is far better than none at all.

The UWM ships are cargo/warships, not dedicated haulers. They kept their main guns and (some) point defenses, mainly because they are the only force we can project at all right now, so stripping them of guns is not smart. They also suck as dedicated transports for that reason. Some dedicated transport ships will be needed, and don't forget that Hephaestus is only the biggest, not the only site the ARM needs to keep supplied. And the Scabbards can be used as mobile operation bases for any future acquisition missions that are too minor for the Sword itself to embark on.

And don't forget that they're my cover-up for Steve's secret ships.

Hmm.  Generally, most of our Hephaestus stuff is very OOC, and I usually just assume that IC actions mostly mimic OOC actions.  For example, in my head Steve Saint has talked with Miya about troops about as much as I have with Radio, since he's in charge of sods on Heph.  I'm not sure what to think with this, though, because the hinge is that last line, which is fine OOC, but probably wouldn't be said IC.  I guess I'll just handwave it away as SS asked ARESTEVE to pick up the slack in ship production, since Anton and Simus are acting like shut-ins again; he didn't pay attention to the actual ship composition, and doesn't really care, so he never noticed the inefficiency of the UWM ships.

Annoying that Steve is keeping secrets like that.  It's perfectly logical, seeing as he both knows far more than any of us, and plans to kill us all, but annoying all the same.

Anyway, action:

Heph:

1.I often update the Heph page at the same time as my Hephaestus action, but last time I had forgotten to publish the update.  I had opened up a second con. crew because you said the massive ship built to handle the compaction AM would be done either way, and you authorized it.  Therefore, we should be able to build both a stevebot facility and biochemical forge.  How long will the stevebot facility take?

2.The space construction ships were done with the Space Magic Facility a while ago.  IIRC, two construction crews helped out, so it got finished quite quickly.  In fact, they had also salvaged the orbital wrecks after that.  I decided to mark them on the wiki as improving our JP defenses indefinitely.  Is this okay?

Personal:

3.Examine ARESTEVE's mindfucker.  How does it work, exactly?

4.What range does it have?

5.How effective is it against enemy infantry and battlesuits?  What effects does it have, and how are they mitigated by armor, if at all?

6.What flaws/dangers does it have?

7.Examine ARESTEVE's teleporter.  How does it work, exactly?

8.What limitations does it have?  Size of teleport, range, etc.

9.What flaws/dangers does it have?

1. Oh, Lets say valentine's day, for irony.

2.Alright.

3. The mechanics of it are beyond you; It has a vague gun like shape, but much of the rear half of it is taken up by some sort of odd enclosure, a slowly rotating dodecahedron with a greenish glow around it. The barrel, if it can be called that, appears to be a solid rod of some unknown material ending in a small, branching shape at the end. When you ask ARESTEVE about the exact way it works he starts to give you an explanation, the contents of which are about 90% incomprehensible to you. He stops, seeing your confusion, and furrows his brow.

"How should I put this...it's becoming increasingly obvious that reality is not as solid or immutable as most would believe. In fact, certain configurations of matter can cause certain interactions to behave differently or become possible. This weapon is simply creating a momentary configuration of mundane matter which causes a sympathetic change in other matter. The "spooky" connections which quantum entangled particles exhibit are merely one example of a similar process."

He pauses for a moment.

"Word of warning. As I researched this I discovered something that might be disturbing: These "spooky" connections, alignments of matter which force certain interactions, are increasing in number and variety. The effect which this thing uses didn't exist several hundred years ago."

4. the effect is projected in a cylinder, straight and 2 feet in diameter. It has a range of 161X10¹¹ Angstroms. During this distance the effect is at 100% strength. It stops precisely at the edges of the zone.

5.Effects vary by individual. It will effect anything with an organic brain that is somewhat similar to a human one. Most large mammals. It isn't mitigated by armor at all, but the effect can be overcome, or at least limited by the force of will of the target.

6.It never runs out of ammo, but the mechanisms are very fragile and precise. It can easily be rendered inoperable by damage and there's no way to repair it on the battle field. It's also somewhat expensive.

7. Well, it's not a gun yet, it's just a system, but are you asking how it would work or how it functions, ie what is the mechanism behind it?

8. Well, part of the problem is that it relies on resonance of the objects being teleported, so it has several restrictions in terms of what is possible. Objects made of many different kinds of materials are severely difficult to teleport, since synchronizing their harmonics is like trying to make a block of wood ring like a church bell.  Size is also a big thing since the amount of energy used to teleport scales at a frighteningly exponential rate. The range can be adjusted and is theoretically limited only by energy input.

9. Mostly those listed above, beyond the obvious problems of friendly telefragging.

You might want to. They both use different methods.

Good to know, continuing as planned then. By the way, when will the shipments to and from Hep arrive? End of the last mission in the batch, right? And when should we tell you what to ship?

By the way, Hep pinguins (but mostly kingpin pyro), are we still on for sending the pill machine back to the sword next run?


I agree with syv that the composition of our fleet warrants discussion, it's rather too important not to. However, I don't think I'll be able to hold very detailed discussions untill the end of the month or so (small posts are one thing, but these are the kind of topics often warranting walls 'o text). But don't let that stop you!

One thing I would just like to remind us of, is that we really need to work closely with pw/steve when deciding these. After all, he is the one who decides what works and what doesn't in this universe, so even if we have a particular idea which we can back with arguments, it'll still be up to him whether it works. And hey, if you have a big brain to help with the thinking, it'd be stupid not to exploit it.

You can start building a list whenever you want. And yeah, mission's end.

Anton Chernozorov

After being missing for an indeterminate amount of time, Anton once again appears walking within the corridors of the base, somewhat tired but subtly smiling. Sitting on the old-fashioned trolley that he is pushing along in front of himself is... a thing.

The thing is best described as a large metal box, with an aperture on the side and a curious little button on top. A knob next to the button makes the whole thing look a little like the unholy mother of all jack-in-the-boxes, born in the bowels of machine hell and arduously worked upon with 20th century household power tools. It's hard to say what this box once was, but the aperture and the little button combined hint at its current purpose being some form of weapon.

Anton would feel a lot more confident, and safer, if he was certain that his latest prototype was actually a weapon, as opposed to a highly unconventional explosive. With that in mind, he navigates his trolley towards the shuttle bays, and sends a text message on his way there.

Saint, I'm conducting a little prototype test. If you want to see me potentially embarrass myself, fly over to the old salvage yard site. Bring a camera.

I'm also borrowing several Sods. Letting you know in case something happens to them, since you're the one in charge of them. I think.
Dammit I'm tired.

Commandeer a couple of sods as muscle power/lab rats. Acquire several slabs of cruiser armor plate at the ground shipyard for use as targets, load everything and the prototype into a shuttle, and fly over to the old salvage yard site (that's now been cleared) to begin testing.

Since the knob on the device looks and acts like a mechanical valve, may as well refer to it in those terms. Cranking it all the way in one direction would be "fully open", all the way in another would be "fully closed".

1. Start with aiming the prototype at some armor plate from, say, 50 meters, using the trolley, stationing a Sod next to it with orders to press the button when the command is given, and putting the knob in the "fully open" position. Then retreat to a safe distance and give the command to fire. Observe results.
(edit: Saint is providing remote robosods instead of regular Sods. May as well use them instead, as per his post below.)

2. If prototype survives and is still operating (replace tester Sod if needed), put the knob in the "half open" position, replace target slab if necessary, and repeat the test. Observe results.

3. If still operating, replace tester/target as needed, put the knob in the "fully closed" position, and repeat test. Observe results.

4. If complete penetration of target is miraculously achieved in any of the phases, stack all the armor slabs together as one target and repeat the test to find out maximum penetration.

Measure, record, and document all testing parameters. Find out or theorize what went wrong and how, because no way this is going to work without a hitch.

1. Same effect you'd get from a normal HEP. Ie a big hole and some missing armor.

2. The hole is half as big this time, but twice as deep. However, the prototype got quite hot after the firing and spent several minutes cooling down before being able to be fired again.

3. Close it all the way? How far away from this are you standing? Just out of curiosity.

[Empiricist]

Charles marches back over to Leo's cell and awaits a response from its inhabitant.
"Hello again, I believe I have some answers to your questions."
Charge dynamic Charisma bonus.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Anton Chernozorov

Anton, uncharacteristically, seems positively giddy at the prospect of finally testing his creation. Still smiling, he sets up the first test, places himself some hundred meters away behind the sturdiest piece of cover around (the shuttle), and gives the go command.

1. Same effect you'd get from a normal HEP. Ie a big hole and some missing armor.

"And that's a no for spontaneous explosion!" Anton happily looks around the assembled group of robobodies for a moment, trying to find Saint, but realizes the futility of the endeavor and goes to inspect the prototype, hoping Saint would follow. Finding nothing wrong, he puts his hands into his coat's pockets and looks over at the target with a critical eye.
"Well, I guess that means I at least put the original mechanism together correctly. Let's crank it up, shall we?"

He pushes the knob into the middle position and retreats back to the cover spot. As soon as all Saint-bots are back in cover, he gives the go for the second test.

2. The hole is half as big this time, but twice as deep. However, the prototype got quite hot after the firing and spent several minutes cooling down before being able to be fired again.

The result is not terribly spectacular, but to Anton it represents an all-important fact. "Да-аа! Теория работает!"
As he looks over the prototype and target, the heating problem does not escape his attention, but does little to curb his enthusiasm.
"See that? Worked almost exactly as I thought it would! The excessive heat is going to be an issue, but - look at that concentrated armor damage! There's probably some loss of power to the heating, but it seems to vaporize a roughly similar amount of material - when the power does not go into width, it goes into depth." Anton pauses, and looks at a nearby Saint-bot with a slightly bemused expression. "I mean, in retrospect, it's kind of obvious I guess. But you just never know with this alien-tech. Besides, this is pretty far from conventional optics."

He looks back at the prototype, which is just starting to be cool enough to be touched by bare hands. "Anyway. Next test?"

3. Close it all the way? How far away from this are you standing? Just out of curiosity.

He suddenly looks doubtful. "You know, I really didn't account for the heating. This thing's shedding power like nobody's business, and it'll probably only get worse on higher settings. What do you say to going in smaller increments from here, Saint?"

Since Saint likely won't object, proceed a little more cautiously, and determine if the device heats up proportionally to the amount of energy it has to redirect. Advance the knob towards "closed" by half the remaining travel space (making the position "three quarters closed"), set up a fresh slab of armor as a target, and retreat back behind the shuttle (it still has the spare armor slabs loaded in it, right?) to start the next test.

Assuming the progression holds (hole 1/4th original size, 4 times original depth), and the heating does not destroy the prototype, repeat the procedure. Advance the knob by half the remaining travel space again, take cover, and give the go command.

Keep doubling the compression ratio until the prototype is rendered inoperable. More testing data means a better Mark II prototype later down the line.

[piecewise]

Charles marches back over to Leo's cell and awaits a response from its inhabitant.
"Hello again, I believe I have some answers to your questions."
Charge dynamic Charisma bonus.

Leo looks over at you but doesn't leave his bunk.

Anton Chernozorov

Anton, uncharacteristically, seems positively giddy at the prospect of finally testing his creation. Still smiling, he sets up the first test, places himself some hundred meters away behind the sturdiest piece of cover around (the shuttle), and gives the go command.

1. Same effect you'd get from a normal HEP. Ie a big hole and some missing armor.

"And that's a no for spontaneous explosion!" Anton happily looks around the assembled group of robobodies for a moment, trying to find Saint, but realizes the futility of the endeavor and goes to inspect the prototype, hoping Saint would follow. Finding nothing wrong, he puts his hands into his coat's pockets and looks over at the target with a critical eye.
"Well, I guess that means I at least put the original mechanism together correctly. Let's crank it up, shall we?"

He pushes the knob into the middle position and retreats back to the cover spot. As soon as all Saint-bots are back in cover, he gives the go for the second test.

2. The hole is half as big this time, but twice as deep. However, the prototype got quite hot after the firing and spent several minutes cooling down before being able to be fired again.

The result is not terribly spectacular, but to Anton it represents an all-important fact. "Да-аа! Теория работает!"
As he looks over the prototype and target, the heating problem does not escape his attention, but does little to curb his enthusiasm.
"See that? Worked almost exactly as I thought it would! The excessive heat is going to be an issue, but - look at that concentrated armor damage! There's probably some loss of power to the heating, but it seems to vaporize a roughly similar amount of material - when the power does not go into width, it goes into depth." Anton pauses, and looks at a nearby Saint-bot with a slightly bemused expression. "I mean, in retrospect, it's kind of obvious I guess. But you just never know with this alien-tech. Besides, this is pretty far from conventional optics."

He looks back at the prototype, which is just starting to be cool enough to be touched by bare hands. "Anyway. Next test?"

3. Close it all the way? How far away from this are you standing? Just out of curiosity.

He suddenly looks doubtful. "You know, I really didn't account for the heating. This thing's shedding power like nobody's business, and it'll probably only get worse on higher settings. What do you say to going in smaller increments from here, Saint?"

Since Saint likely won't object, proceed a little more cautiously, and determine if the device heats up proportionally to the amount of energy it has to redirect. Advance the knob towards "closed" by half the remaining travel space (making the position "three quarters closed"), set up a fresh slab of armor as a target, and retreat back behind the shuttle (it still has the spare armor slabs loaded in it, right?) to start the next test.

Assuming the progression holds (hole 1/4th original size, 4 times original depth), and the heating does not destroy the prototype, repeat the procedure. Advance the knob by half the remaining travel space again, take cover, and give the go command.

Keep doubling the compression ratio until the prototype is rendered inoperable. More testing data means a better Mark II prototype later down the line.

The three quarter's test goes as follows: The armor slab is pierced straight through; a distance roughly double that of the previous shot despite the "shrink factor" being half of what it was originally. It eventually stops after tunneling through some distant debris. The prototype heats up A LOT; enough that it starts melting the stand you have it attached to and venting super heated exhaust out the front aperture. It takes a good 20 minutes to cool down enough to be handled, and at that point it has melted straight through the stand and burnt a black patch in the ground.

[syvarris]

((Kinda late, but eh.))

After the first test, when Anton tries to figure out which bot is Saint:  Saint starts once he realizes Anton is trying to figure out which bot he's using, and says "Just a moment, I'll turn on the facial facsimile system... Forgot these things even have that..."  A moment later, a /:( face flashes up, only to be replaced by the initials 'SS' almost instantaneously.

((I kinda like the concept of Saint being faceless in the crowd, but it's OOC for him to do that around people he knows well.))

After the tests are mostly finished, and the group is just waiting for the weapon to cool, Saint begins rambling "It's rather remarkable that you got such a powerful effect from this device.  Even if it takes twenty minutes to cool off after a shot like that, it's nowhere near the size or cost of a warship's gauss weapon; You could mount a lot of these and still end up with a lighter weaponry load.  The long cooldown is an issue, but automanipulators capable of greatly accelerating it would be far smaller than those used in gauss weapons.  You could also try using the hexplate armor we developed, since it's so resistant to heat, and is great for distributing it.  You could use the armor of the ship as a heat sink.

The damage is already excellent, but you might be able to enhance the effect by linking the fire control to overcharging FEL turrets, since their primary weakness is reflective armor...  Or you could try putting multiple weapons in a gatling style array, fire them in sequence..."

((Actual turn post laterish.))

[syvarris]

((Double posting for efficient PW post size.))

Hephaestus managing:

1.Order a construction crew to begin constructing a hammer cannon, in shipable sections.  Radio ordered this, so that we have something to give Q'baja.  When will it be done?

2.The new armor techs: Are they already updated into our old armor, or do we have to explicitly design them in?  I.E. if I do nothing, will our battlesuits be using hexsand armor, or old BS plate?  If the latter, are there production issues that prevent us from updating everything?

Warship stuff:

3.Warships: You requested detailed designs, and I'd be happy to oblige, but is there any explicit system for space combat?  It's easiest to design an effective ship if we know how combat works.

4.We can build ships of varying sizes, but is there any real distinction between them, aside from "this is bigger" or similar?  How is having three ships that take ten days to build each, different from having one ship that takes thirty days?

Mindfucker gun:

5.ARESTEVE says that this thing uses exceedingly complex principles of distorted physics from the dying universe or whatever, so I don't understand how it works.  Can I alter the basic shape, and have some linear/predictable change in effect?  I.E. If I alter the shape at the front, can I mess with the beam width, or if I alter the rod's length, can I alter the range?  Etc.

((I have a bunch of disparate questions on different subjects I want to ask, but no large group of questions for one specific thing.  Irritating.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

Mindfucker gun:

5.ARESTEVE says that this thing uses exceedingly complex principles of distorted physics from the dying universe or whatever, so I don't understand how it works.  Can I alter the basic shape, and have some linear/predictable change in effect?  I.E. If I alter the shape at the front, can I mess with the beam width, or if I alter the rod's length, can I alter the range?  Etc.[/b]

((PW can answer that in detail, but if you'll contend with a simple answer, basically "yes". Anton asked Aresteve if the device is scalable, and was told that while it's based on data and output of modified manipulators, the gun itself can be scaled, presumably by altering the geometry of the "barrel" and other parameters.))

[Empiricist]

Charles relays his notes to Leo as charismatically as possible (use SPEECH and CHARISMA). He also notes that Steve intends to fade back into the background should the rebellion succeed.

• Structural shift from hierarchical control with centralized government at top to allied sovereign states. May be possible to convince governments to ally in exchange for power as removing the hierarchy altogether gives them a presumably significant amount of independence, they may not be leaders, but they will no longer be peons at the very least.
  
• Ordinary troops may not be necessarily loyal. Specialists will likely be hard to convince however. Rank and file soldiers might be offered better opportunities, more data required on specialists.
  
• May be opportune to focus on outskirts, core worlds are more loyal and in the case of a rebellion wold be fortunate to last even a week.
  
• UWM worse than expected. They do not even study alien or silent world technology, merely hording them until they possibly become unstable or otherwise dangerous. They will not learn from the mistakes of the fallen, they will eventually make the same mistakes.
  
• Remember: the Quiet Worlds may still be alive, merely with its human population in an unrecognizable state, likely even prospering. A different state of existence is existence nonetheless and if an entire civilization chose to adopt such, they likely had their reasons, thus it was likely beneficial. We are but primitive outsiders, peering with obsolescent sight into artificial sanctuaries.
  

[Sean Mirrsen]

Anton Chernozorov

The three quarter's test goes as follows: The armor slab is pierced straight through; a distance roughly double that of the previous shot despite the "shrink factor" being half of what it was originally. It eventually stops after tunneling through some distant debris. The prototype heats up A LOT; enough that it starts melting the stand you have it attached to and venting super heated exhaust out the front aperture. It takes a good 20 minutes to cool down enough to be handled, and at that point it has melted straight through the stand and burnt a black patch in the ground.

"Well... that's definitely a data point. I've still no idea why it's heating quite this much, but that it works exactly that way is... very promising." Anton is slowly winding down from the earlier rush of excitement, and his smile is more subdued than the grin he had in the past ten minutes.

He brushes his hair back with a hand, and looks over the scorched and molten debris that used to be the test stand. "I guess that's it for stress-testing for now. Although... there's one more test I'd like to do. Saint, can you get the Sods to lift this thing and point it o-over there?"

The direction indicated by Anton is a series of bumps and folds of landscape, mostly empty save for the occasional leftover piece of worthless debris. "I want to do a range test. Since I'm altering the output geometry here, I want to see if the compressed beam gets less falloff and proportionally greater range than the standard HEP. Have them hold it in that direction, and I'll set it back to default setting to see how far the beam goes. Also to see if we haven't fried the prototype with that last test. Since they're robots, they shouldn't get too burned when it's cranked up to the half-width setting."

Set up the range test experiment. Put the knob back into "fully open" position if it still functions, and get the Sods to hold the prototype aiming into a direction with some empty landscape to judge the effective range. Order another sod to push the button, observe results.

Then set the knob to half compression, and see if the range increases as the beam width decreases.

[piecewise]

((Double posting for efficient PW post size.))

Hephaestus managing:

1.Order a construction crew to begin constructing a hammer cannon, in shipable sections.  Radio ordered this, so that we have something to give Q'baja.  When will it be done?

2.The new armor techs: Are they already updated into our old armor, or do we have to explicitly design them in?  I.E. if I do nothing, will our battlesuits be using hexsand armor, or old BS plate?  If the latter, are there production issues that prevent us from updating everything?

Warship stuff:

3.Warships: You requested detailed designs, and I'd be happy to oblige, but is there any explicit system for space combat?  It's easiest to design an effective ship if we know how combat works.

4.We can build ships of varying sizes, but is there any real distinction between them, aside from "this is bigger" or similar?  How is having three ships that take ten days to build each, different from having one ship that takes thirty days?

Mindfucker gun:

5.ARESTEVE says that this thing uses exceedingly complex principles of distorted physics from the dying universe or whatever, so I don't understand how it works.  Can I alter the basic shape, and have some linear/predictable change in effect?  I.E. If I alter the shape at the front, can I mess with the beam width, or if I alter the rod's length, can I alter the range?  Etc.

((I have a bunch of disparate questions on different subjects I want to ask, but no large group of questions for one specific thing.  Irritating.))

Oh dear. Thats a long one. Um, Beginning of next mission, because there theoretically should be a time skip between each of these missions for you guys.

2.You guys should state how you want to handle it. Remember the new stuff has weaknesses as well as strengths. If you want to standardize the use of a new material, you have to say which one and how you want it used.

3. In most cases, space combat involves to ships at extremely long ranges firing lasers at each other. Kinetic projectiles tend to be for stationary targets or things too close to be able to dodge.

4.Well, Mostly in that larger ships are generally better armored, armed and have more room for stuff in them. They're also slower and more vulnerable to fast craft. It should be remembered that the time to make a ship isn't a linear graph as size increases. Square cubed law, plus  larger ships need larger Automanips which are harder to make as well.

5. Altering the length and related properties is possible, but not easy. It's not as simple as bending a piece to make the angle wider. It would require figuring out the correct configuration of angles and materials, which could be done but would require a lot of brute forcing. It's a time thing, more then anything else.

Charles relays his notes to Leo as charismatically as possible (use SPEECH and CHARISMA). He also notes that Steve intends to fade back into the background should the rebellion succeed.

• Structural shift from hierarchical control with centralized government at top to allied sovereign states. May be possible to convince governments to ally in exchange for power as removing the hierarchy altogether gives them a presumably significant amount of independence, they may not be leaders, but they will no longer be peons at the very least.
  
• Ordinary troops may not be necessarily loyal. Specialists will likely be hard to convince however. Rank and file soldiers might be offered better opportunities, more data required on specialists.
  
• May be opportune to focus on outskirts, core worlds are more loyal and in the case of a rebellion wold be fortunate to last even a week.
  
• UWM worse than expected. They do not even study alien or silent world technology, merely hording them until they possibly become unstable or otherwise dangerous. They will not learn from the mistakes of the fallen, they will eventually make the same mistakes.
  
• Remember: the Quiet Worlds may still be alive, merely with its human population in an unrecognizable state, likely even prospering. A different state of existence is existence nonetheless and if an entire civilization chose to adopt such, they likely had their reasons, thus it was likely beneficial. We are but primitive outsiders, peering with obsolescent sight into artificial sanctuaries.
  

Charismatic notes eh? Sounds like something a wine taster would make up to sound cultured.

Regardless, the prisoner listens with a mostly blank expression, though it appears that some of it is getting through. He doesn't seem to have been shaken from his over all position, but you're wearing him down.

Anton Chernozorov

The three quarter's test goes as follows: The armor slab is pierced straight through; a distance roughly double that of the previous shot despite the "shrink factor" being half of what it was originally. It eventually stops after tunneling through some distant debris. The prototype heats up A LOT; enough that it starts melting the stand you have it attached to and venting super heated exhaust out the front aperture. It takes a good 20 minutes to cool down enough to be handled, and at that point it has melted straight through the stand and burnt a black patch in the ground.

"Well... that's definitely a data point. I've still no idea why it's heating quite this much, but that it works exactly that way is... very promising." Anton is slowly winding down from the earlier rush of excitement, and his smile is more subdued than the grin he had in the past ten minutes.

He brushes his hair back with a hand, and looks over the scorched and molten debris that used to be the test stand. "I guess that's it for stress-testing for now. Although... there's one more test I'd like to do. Saint, can you get the Sods to lift this thing and point it o-over there?"

The direction indicated by Anton is a series of bumps and folds of landscape, mostly empty save for the occasional leftover piece of worthless debris. "I want to do a range test. Since I'm altering the output geometry here, I want to see if the compressed beam gets less falloff and proportionally greater range than the standard HEP. Have them hold it in that direction, and I'll set it back to default setting to see how far the beam goes. Also to see if we haven't fried the prototype with that last test. Since they're robots, they shouldn't get too burned when it's cranked up to the half-width setting."

Set up the range test experiment. Put the knob back into "fully open" position if it still functions, and get the Sods to hold the prototype aiming into a direction with some empty landscape to judge the effective range. Order another sod to push the button, observe results.

Then set the knob to half compression, and see if the range increases as the beam width decreases.

The beam, uncompressed, travels a good distance, judging by the damage, however, as it continues on, it seems to becomes less consolidated, as though the wall of energy is breaking up into separate pieces and traveling out at different angles. These pieces travel for quite a while before the last traces of them on the ground and landscape end.

Compressing the beam by half has the effect of effectively quadrupling the range before the beam starts to break up.

[syvarris]

Armor questions:

Glossary:  Hexsand is the hex stone material mixed with the energy sand, Sharkplate is the nanobot maintained nanotubes, and xenohex is the insect shell mixed with hex stone.

1.How does the protective value of sharkplate compare to the cloth that civic defender longcoats use, as far as cost?

2.Is sharkplate flexible, or would infantry armor need unarmored sections to facilitate movement?

3.How brittle is hexsand?  If we were to give a battlesuit a layer of it on top, would a gauss rifle be able to break it?  I remember someone shot the original stuff in M9 with a gauss rifle, so I had been assuming.

4.How does the hexsand's laser resistance compare to an equivalent cost plate of battlesuit plate?

5.Could we give the hexsand a backplate of something like sharkplate, which keeps it mostly in place after shattering?

6.Would the above method keep the armor at least somewhat effective against lasers?

7.You said Xenohex was "nearly unbreakable" to the point that it damages it's mountings.  How well does it do against lasers?

8.How thin can a layer of xenohex be before it breaks to, say, a gauss cannon round?

Spaceship question:

9.For our initial run of ships, which is really just for defending Q'baja and Heph, would it be a bad idea to give them primarily laser-resistant armor, and only laser weapons?

[Unholy_Pariah]

Are the various hexplates made of lots of little hexagons or can we mold them into any shape we want?

If they are, how small can each hexplate armor cell be made?

Can sharkmist be used to make something analogous to silk thread?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Anton Chernozorov

The beam, uncompressed, travels a good distance, judging by the damage, however, as it continues on, it seems to becomes less consolidated, as though the wall of energy is breaking up into separate pieces and traveling out at different angles. These pieces travel for quite a while before the last traces of them on the ground and landscape end.

Compressing the beam by half has the effect of effectively quadrupling the range before the beam starts to break up.

Just to clarify, the total range of the shot likewise increases, not just the range until it starts to break up, right? Or do the individual fragments of the standard shot never technically stop, they just either hit the ground or wander off into the atmosphere? I mean, as far as Anton can see/tell.
While we're on the subject, we never got a solid number for the effective range of the HEP, beyond "medium range". Can we have a number here, about how far does the standard beam stay coherent? One, two, three hundred meters? More, less? It's important if we start making space-combat weapons out of these by using the range multipliers.[/b]


Anton just keeps smiling at the test results. "And yep. That's an affirmative. Range increase, penetration increase, that's just excellent. Let's pack up and head to base. I'm dropping this off with some paid professionals once they're available, so they'll work the issues out of it. Maybe actually make it into a weapon, and not... a box with a knob. And a button."

Pack everything up and head back. Drop the intact leftover slabs back at the yard, bring the prototype and the development and testing data on it into the R&D labs, and leave it there until a science team becomes available. Got some things to do.


Things to do:

1. Examine the standard UWM spaceship armor(s), and standard UWM spaceship laser weapons. Are the lasers in any way incorporating the same principles as Free-Electron Lasers, or are they all standard UV wavelength? Is the armor in any way specially made to resist those specific lasers?
   Take a free-electron laser and a regular laser of the same power input, and test them both against the same slab of armor, changing the wavelength of the FEL with each test. Theoretically, XRays would hit the hardest. Theoretically, gamma rays would hit even harder.

2. Design a large-scale FEL that is designed to be a "graser" (Gamma-Ray Laser). Instead of a cycling mechanism to charge the beam of a specific frequency, let it use a conventional induced gamma ray emitter similar to what you'd find in a typical X-Ray tube, but with a different isotope, for seeding the beam.
   The magnetic oscillation chamber would have to be pretty long to let the emitted electrons wiggle themselves into place in short order from the seeding, but that's not a problem if it has to be ship-mounted. The huge generators needed to power it would be an issue if, again, it wasn't intended for a ship. ((This is probably a very complicated and advanced design. Theoretical weaponized grasers would normally be bomb-pumped. Hell, even weaponized XRay lasers. So feel free to do an Int roll to see if Anton figures this out on his own, or needs science-team or Aresteve assistance.))

3. If successful in designing the Graser, use it as the weapon for the new ship design. Model the design after a typical battlecruiser class, but (if applicable) slightly wider/flatter and with sloped/beveled edges instead of a typical brick design. The Graser would be a spinal-mount weapon since there's no reflecting that thing with a rotating mirror.
   Other weaponry would include standard laser PD, and any backup weapons that are typical for these ships (Gauss cannons for bombardment? Bombs/missiles/torpedoes?). Standard set of shuttle bays for crews, and, top and bottom or port and starboard, docking and resupply collars for 2-4 small craft a-la Black Death (in lieu of having actual plasma cannon turrets). Armor... leave standard for now. Of course the ship is FTL capable, but not planet-operations-capable. ((Calling design discussion on new ship class!))

3a - Even if successful with the Graser, make another design based on the above. Instead of the Graser, use a pair of large FELs as the main weapons, complete with the circular charge circuits, side-by-side to be able to charge and fire rapidly at the same target (one charges, the other fires and cools down).
   In this case instead of just having a pair of openings facing forward, use a series of deflectors along the "loop chamber" (that also runs the length of the ship like the wiggler chamber) to be able to divert the focused beam out of any one of a number of openings/reflectors scattered around the hull, one for each of the two lasers on each side of the ship except the opposing one. ((i.e. two fore, two aft, two dorsal, two ventral, but only one each port and starboard if the lasers are side-by-side))
   The reflectors should be able to redirect the beam via refraction up to at least 45 degrees, to make a series of 90-degree aiming arcs surrounding the ship, leaving as little in the way of blindspots as possible. The armor of this ship should probably be on the heavier side, perhaps using the hexbug plate, as it can afford not being able to quickly turn around if its enemies are in different directions. ((Calling for discussion on this one also!))

[piecewise]

Oh shit, thats a lot of text.

Anton Chernozorov

The beam, uncompressed, travels a good distance, judging by the damage, however, as it continues on, it seems to becomes less consolidated, as though the wall of energy is breaking up into separate pieces and traveling out at different angles. These pieces travel for quite a while before the last traces of them on the ground and landscape end.

Compressing the beam by half has the effect of effectively quadrupling the range before the beam starts to break up.

Just to clarify, the total range of the shot likewise increases, not just the range until it starts to break up, right? Or do the individual fragments of the standard shot never technically stop, they just either hit the ground or wander off into the atmosphere? I mean, as far as Anton can see/tell.
While we're on the subject, we never got a solid number for the effective range of the HEP, beyond "medium range". Can we have a number here, about how far does the standard beam stay coherent? One, two, three hundred meters? More, less? It's important if we start making space-combat weapons out of these by using the range multipliers.[/b]


Anton just keeps smiling at the test results. "And yep. That's an affirmative. Range increase, penetration increase, that's just excellent. Let's pack up and head to base. I'm dropping this off with some paid professionals once they're available, so they'll work the issues out of it. Maybe actually make it into a weapon, and not... a box with a knob. And a button."

Pack everything up and head back. Drop the intact leftover slabs back at the yard, bring the prototype and the development and testing data on it into the R&D labs, and leave it there until a science team becomes available. Got some things to do.


Things to do:

1. Examine the standard UWM spaceship armor(s), and standard UWM spaceship laser weapons. Are the lasers in any way incorporating the same principles as Free-Electron Lasers, or are they all standard UV wavelength? Is the armor in any way specially made to resist those specific lasers?
   Take a free-electron laser and a regular laser of the same power input, and test them both against the same slab of armor, changing the wavelength of the FEL with each test. Theoretically, XRays would hit the hardest. Theoretically, gamma rays would hit even harder.

2. Design a large-scale FEL that is designed to be a "graser" (Gamma-Ray Laser). Instead of a cycling mechanism to charge the beam of a specific frequency, let it use a conventional induced gamma ray emitter similar to what you'd find in a typical X-Ray tube, but with a different isotope, for seeding the beam.
   The magnetic oscillation chamber would have to be pretty long to let the emitted electrons wiggle themselves into place in short order from the seeding, but that's not a problem if it has to be ship-mounted. The huge generators needed to power it would be an issue if, again, it wasn't intended for a ship. ((This is probably a very complicated and advanced design. Theoretical weaponized grasers would normally be bomb-pumped. Hell, even weaponized XRay lasers. So feel free to do an Int roll to see if Anton figures this out on his own, or needs science-team or Aresteve assistance.))

3. If successful in designing the Graser, use it as the weapon for the new ship design. Model the design after a typical battlecruiser class, but (if applicable) slightly wider/flatter and with sloped/beveled edges instead of a typical brick design. The Graser would be a spinal-mount weapon since there's no reflecting that thing with a rotating mirror.
   Other weaponry would include standard laser PD, and any backup weapons that are typical for these ships (Gauss cannons for bombardment? Bombs/missiles/torpedoes?). Standard set of shuttle bays for crews, and, top and bottom or port and starboard, docking and resupply collars for 2-4 small craft a-la Black Death (in lieu of having actual plasma cannon turrets). Armor... leave standard for now. Of course the ship is FTL capable, but not planet-operations-capable. ((Calling design discussion on new ship class!))

3a - Even if successful with the Graser, make another design based on the above. Instead of the Graser, use a pair of large FELs as the main weapons, complete with the circular charge circuits, side-by-side to be able to charge and fire rapidly at the same target (one charges, the other fires and cools down).
   In this case instead of just having a pair of openings facing forward, use a series of deflectors along the "loop chamber" (that also runs the length of the ship like the wiggler chamber) to be able to divert the focused beam out of any one of a number of openings/reflectors scattered around the hull, one for each of the two lasers on each side of the ship except the opposing one. ((i.e. two fore, two aft, two dorsal, two ventral, but only one each port and starboard if the lasers are side-by-side))
   The reflectors should be able to redirect the beam via refraction up to at least 45 degrees, to make a series of 90-degree aiming arcs surrounding the ship, leaving as little in the way of blindspots as possible. The armor of this ship should probably be on the heavier side, perhaps using the hexbug plate, as it can afford not being able to quickly turn around if its enemies are in different directions. ((Calling for discussion on this one also!))

Yes, the total range.
Range has always been a terrible sticking point with me. Especially since I never fucking use it. Lets assume a few hundred meters.


1-3a. Ok, stop stop stop.

I'm not a physicist. I've never taken a physics class. Lets stop for a moment. What is the point of what you're trying to do? Is it just to make an powerful x-ray laser for ships? Is that what we're going with here?

Armor questions:

Glossary:  Hexsand is the hex stone material mixed with the energy sand, Sharkplate is the nanobot maintained nanotubes, and xenohex is the insect shell mixed with hex stone.

1.How does the protective value of sharkplate compare to the cloth that civic defender longcoats use, as far as cost?

2.Is sharkplate flexible, or would infantry armor need unarmored sections to facilitate movement?

3.How brittle is hexsand?  If we were to give a battlesuit a layer of it on top, would a gauss rifle be able to break it?  I remember someone shot the original stuff in M9 with a gauss rifle, so I had been assuming.

4.How does the hexsand's laser resistance compare to an equivalent cost plate of battlesuit plate?

5.Could we give the hexsand a backplate of something like sharkplate, which keeps it mostly in place after shattering?

6.Would the above method keep the armor at least somewhat effective against lasers?

7.You said Xenohex was "nearly unbreakable" to the point that it damages it's mountings.  How well does it do against lasers?

8.How thin can a layer of xenohex be before it breaks to, say, a gauss cannon round?

Spaceship question:

9.For our initial run of ships, which is really just for defending Q'baja and Heph, would it be a bad idea to give them primarily laser-resistant armor, and only laser weapons?

1.It's about as protective but should be cheaper, since we can just grow the stuff.

2. It's fairly flexible, but not as much as the fabric from a longcoat. It's sort of like rubber in consistency.

3. Impregnating it with the sand has made it more fragile. It could probably survive a gauss round, but I wouldn't bet on it surviving several or anything larger.

4.Far and away better. Hexsand is essentially laser proof. Actually it's essentially directed energy proof in general. It absorbs or deflects just about any form of radiation or energy thrown at it. it EATS plasma for god sake.

5. Something to hold it in place might work to keep it semi-functional. It wouldn't be 100%, but it would be better then it shattering into a million pieces and falling all over the place.

6. Less so, because they could sneak through the cracks, theoretically, but it would still be pretty good.

7. It's nearly unbreakable to kinetic forces and similar things. It can be cut with lasers, but it is fairly resistant.

8. The absolute boundary, the point at which the armor will break but still stop the shot, is around  1/2 to 1/4 of an inch.

9.Probably not, honestly. Gauss weapons, like I said, are more for planetary engagements and the like. As long as the ships remain moving in irregular patterns, they shouldn't have to worry about it too much.