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[Sean Mirrsen]

Anton Chernozorov

Okay, we're starting to ramp things up now. The amp factory is underway, the production is being expanded, our shipbuilding facilities are ready, the debris field is condensed. The only bottleneck right now is our - or my, perhaps - reluctance to mass-produce outdated tech. I really need that lab. But I can still do some things without it. Better get on it, then.

Anton got up from his desk, and headed to the on-site R&D labs. There should be at least one team of scientists that aren't working on a specific project, and he was about to make their hands full for the foreseeable future.

First order of business, get another salvage/constructor ship built. As soon as it's built, its orders are to dig into the pile of scrap hanging out in our low orbit, and repair all ships that can still be repaired. Everything that's useless scrap, is to be shuttled to slightly higher orbit, and arranged to mimic the appearance of a "naturally formed" after-battle debris belt. We're not short on raw materials, and it's going to have tactical uses later.

Second order of business, in addition to the constructor ship, order the shipyard to build a small fleet of FTL-incapable in-system defense ships. Go for the largest class we can field with this shipyard, light cruisers, a half-dozen of standard UWM design. These will be the meatshields that will defend the planet and the remote facilities here in case something shows up while we don't have anything better to throw at it.

Third and most important order of business, head down to the R&D labs, and present a new project to the free Science team.

Spoiler: Project description: Mission-Adaptable Combat Suit Series (click to show/hide)

So, here it is then. The MACS line.

At the core of the project lies modular design. At every given stage, there is a "core", which is equipped with different elements to make it perform to its maximum ability in any given mission.

The MACS series replaces the standard suit series from Mk2 to the Avatar, although perhaps "replaces" is too strong a word. It aims to complement the existing suit series, rather than outright replace it.

The first tier of the MACS line is the MACS Core Suit. It is based on the MCP suit prototype, brought up to Mk2 par in medical gear, and equipped with a lightweight unpowered exoskeleton, which provides rigid mountpoints and power transfer systems for the various equipment. It provides some protection against blunt impacts, but no extra physical ability. This exoskeleton also serves to provide mechanical feedback on the user's movement, acting as a full-body control interface similar to the Battlesuit's control cuffs, assuming there is something in need of such control.

Robotbody and synthflesh people can install the MACS Core System without the suit for the same price instead, gaining the same advantages, and a bit of extra armor around vulnerable areas instead of the medical and survival equipment.

Building onto the MACS Core, there are a great number of modules, fit for every occasion. By necessity, the first tier of MACS is the most varied, as the human-sized combatants generally find themselves in the most number of different circumstances. Individual modules are meant to be installable and removable by the user, quickly and without hassle.

Here are some of the modules for the MACS Core:

• Exoskeletal Support - the MACS Core's unpowered exoskeleton is designed to accept a "muscle layer", that turns it into a proper, powered exoskeleton that provides physical bonuses. This helps the MACS user wear some of the heavier modules, that come with a steep strength requirement.
• Armor - Much like the "muscle layer", the MACS Core is designed to accept an armor layer. As the Core is covered in hardpoints, putting on armor is a fairly simple matter - although any "slot" that is already occupied by a module obviously can't be armored. So if you put a rocket pack on your back, you better hope nobody around you is in a literally back-stabbing mood.
• Power Pack - as the MACS Core provides power supply lines for everything mounted on it, it makes sense to be able to install a standard 2, 4, 6, or 8-TPU generator into a dedicated slot on the back.
• Weapon Pods - any free hardpoint on the MACS Core can be outfitted with a weapon, using a simple weapon-specific mount. Special suit software is provided to assist aiming with oddly-positioned or specially-mounted weapons. ((put grenade launchers on your feet, why don't'cha))
• Rocket Flight Module - This moderately heavy back attachment provides the user with Mk3-like rocket-powered flight ability, as well as the necessary suit software to control it via the suit's movement feedback system. Buzz mode included.
• Aerial Flight Module - This lightweight back attachment comes with a pair of ducted electric turbofans driven by a dedicated generator, allowing the user agile flight capability inside any atmosphere and rapid movement in water, although in both cases it's inferior to that of the Rocket Flight Module. It does not, however, suffer from any longevity limit, and can keep the user flying at max speed for however many years the generator lasts.
• Heavy Laser Module - This heavy back-mounted pack contains a modified Raduga Free-Electron Laser. The focusing array of the laser is linked to the rest of the weapon's hardware by an array of moving lenses, providing the user with a shoulder-fired heavy laser that can be neatly folded back when not in use, and is not nearly as hard to handle.
• Close Combat Module - This heavy upper-torso package provides the user with two forearm-mounted, elongated "strike shields", thick metal plates mounted on synthetic muscle actuators, as well as a reinforced upper-torso exoskeleton to efficiently manipulate them. The strike shields are universal melee weapons, combining protective qualities with battering-ram-like reciprocating action, kinetic amplifiers, and monoatomic razor edges on the non-striking sides.
• Squad Support Module - A fleshtech special, this back-mounted module contains a set of equipment specializing in squad support, including CamEye-equipped mini-drones, boosted communications equipment, a powered universal toolkit, and an extended medical kit.
• Rocket Boot Module - A leg-mounted, reduced-size variant of the Rocket Flight module, this pack provides the user with rather less acceleration and flight time, but will still allow for some manner of flight when a more specialized module is equipped on the back.

There is lots of others possible, but I really should've been writing my past ideas down. As a special mention, the Red Hand electrolaser and Saint's Power Gloves can both be used with this system supplying the power.

The second tier of the MACS system is the Universal Mobile Armor, which is in effect a redesigned, customizable Battlesuit, following the same design principles as the MACS Core. Taking the weakpoints of the Battlesuit into account, it introduces sleeves of heavy tactical mesh over its exposed joints (as in the Kulak sketch here), and make the hatch release system a two-switch design, requiring a switch on either side of the hatch to be released before the hatch would open, allowing the pilot inside more opportunity to react. In effect, it's an excuse to overhaul the Battlesuit and get rid of some of its flaws, but as a part of the MACS system the new Mobile Armor's extra modules (flight pack, kinamps, electric defenses, claymores, integrated lasers) will fall under the same lease system.

Finally, tier 3 of the MACS system is an Avatar-sized mech developed under the name "ATX", Armored Trooper Experiment. Designed to be operated by an un-augmented soldier, but using the full-body control system provided by MACS, and also equippable with a range of modules that will have to be developed after the mech itself is. The mentioned "Kulak" modification, however, is going to be built separately, as part of the Plasma Stake testing program.

See about getting an estimate on completion for each of the two orders, and the three individual tiers of the MACS.

((Comments welcome.))

[Parisbre56]

((You could ask if you could build ship parts in your shipyard and shoot them up like a ship, then assemble those parts in orbit. That way you don't need an orbital shipyard to build things like capital ships, you just need an orbital assembly facility/fleet. That way you don't have such a big, obvious target in orbit and you can easily increase your production capacities by building more shipyards.
You could also ask whether or not putting the Sods to work on the ships or other construction projects would help complete them faster.
And you might want to invest on a stealth probe to set up at the other side of the Hephaestus jump point so that you can have an early warning system.
Investigating the nearby planetary systems for any potential threats, opportunities for offensive operations, abductions or recruitment is also a good idea. You don't need to send anyone there, just check our records about them.))

[Nikitian]

Spoiler: On MACS (click to show/hide)

((Interesting. Though I have to point that adding an unpowered exoskeleton means adding all the hazard of an exoskeleton without any benefits. It'd anyway twist your limbs should the controller chip be damaged (though, yeah, probably with less strength).
On second and especially third designs: would you not prefer to give it a little wait? As I can see it, we are currently advancing at an upgraded Mk every mission or so, and there is a good reason for that - the further you go, the more you would benefit from all the improvements (special materials, better armor for new battlesuits, your new generators, etc.), so waiting off before designing the new battlesuit and especially the new Avatars (given how much they cost to produce) might be worth it.
Right now I could see your design (the initital suit, at least) as a sort of Mk+ 2.5, with Mk+ II being the MCP II. Because of added vulnerability (unpowered exoskeleton) and focus on upgradeability (those mountpoints, etc.) it is probably not the best general-utility next-gen suit, even if you manage to keep the price as low as MCP II (which is unlikely). However, especially if you upgrade the basis exoskeleton at least a little bit, it might fit a fine niche between the Mk III and MCP II.
Come to think of it, if you are not too focused on becoming replacement for Mk series, you could well fit between the existing models, filling the gaps and providing what no one else can.

Also, I would really wish you used upgraded exoskeletons in your design. And by that I mean Dex bonus as well as Str/End. I don't know if Miyamoto's/Aresteve's advanced exoskeletons can do it, or are basically cheaper/more powerful for the same price or maybe better protected/designed, but that is a goal worth tinkering, especially in advance of making a next-gen Mk III. I have a couple ideas, and even if my original idea of Mk+ III doesn't work, if we achieve this one way or another, I would be happy and satisfied with anyone else's Mk+ III utilizing it.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

Spoiler: On MACS (click to show/hide)

((Interesting. Though I have to point that adding an unpowered exoskeleton means adding all the hazard of an exoskeleton without any benefits. It'd anyway twist your limbs should the controller chip be damaged (though, yeah, probably with less strength).
On second and especially third designs: would you not prefer to give it a little wait? As I can see it, we are currently advancing at an upgraded Mk every mission or so, and there is a good reason for that - the further you go, the more you would benefit from all the improvements (special materials, better armor for new battlesuits, your new generators, etc.), so waiting off before designing the new battlesuit and especially the new Avatars (given how much they cost to produce) might be worth it.
Right now I could see your design (the initital suit, at least) as a sort of Mk+ 2.5, with Mk+ II being the MCP II. Because of added vulnerability (unpowered exoskeleton) and focus on upgradeability (those mountpoints, etc.) it is probably not the best general-utility next-gen suit, even if you manage to keep the price as low as MCP II (which is unlikely). However, especially if you upgrade the basis exoskeleton at least a little bit, it might fit a fine niche between the Mk III and MCP II.
Come to think of it, if you are not too focused on becoming replacement for Mk series, you could well fit between the existing models, filling the gaps and providing what no one else can.

Also, I would really wish you used upgraded exoskeletons in your design. And by that I mean Dex bonus as well as Str/End. I don't know if Miyamoto's/Aresteve's advanced exoskeletons can do it, or are basically cheaper/more powerful for the same price or maybe better protected/designed, but that is a goal worth tinkering, especially in advance of making a next-gen Mk III. I have a couple ideas, and even if my original idea of Mk+ III doesn't work, if we achieve this one way or another, I would be happy and satisfied with anyone else's Mk+ III utilizing it.))

((An unpowered exoskeleton, in this case, means that you are wearing a joint-linked external shell. An exoskeleton, in the true sense of the word, with no muscle. With the joints properly designed, it won't hinder the wearer except due to its (fairly low) weight. There is no control chip to twist your limbs.

I plan to keep the latter designs in development as long as it takes to make them good, so I wouldn't worry about introducing them too early. As soon as a science team is freed up I'm putting them on a dedicated myomer upgrade project. The next team to be freed will be taking a tangent from the Plasma Stake to work on another highly useful potential derivative.

The Core suit (or Plugsuit), however, I plan to spread across all the niches from Mk2+ to Mk3+. I think the exoskeletal frame is a cheap enough piece of gear to include easily on the standard Mk2+, seeing as it's pretty much the only significant upgrade from the basic Mk2, besides the MCP design. It doesn't even include a generator besides the suit's internal one. And of course it's much more of a Mk2+ to synthoid-body and synthflesh-body people.))

[syvarris]

((I like that you have a robot-specific variant, but I suggest you don't entirely remove the suit.  All the medical stuff is useless to a 'bot, but looking like you're just as human as the guy next to you isn't.

Also, you have it so that you can't armor any sections that have a different module installed, like the rocket pack.  Milno shows that's it's perfectly possible to have back armor and a rocket pack, so at the very least I think you should offer a secondary armor option for that, even if it's slightly more expensive.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure just having the rocket pack won't allow for similar maneuverability as an MK.III, because I think the MK.III has a bunch of secondary rockets spaced all around the body.

Overall, I like the idea, but you should really make sure that the costs for this thing don't get too high- if buying an MK.III equivalent costs equal or more than an MK.III, it's inferior, because you're also trading effectiveness for versatility.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((I like that you have a robot-specific variant, but I suggest you don't entirely remove the suit.  All the medical stuff is useless to a 'bot, but looking like you're just as human as the guy next to you isn't.

((Yeah, that could probably work. A synthoid is basically a bare metal skeleton with muscles, no skin - the MCP suit would effectively be a synthetic skin.))

Also, you have it so that you can't armor any sections that have a different module installed, like the rocket pack.  Milno shows that's it's perfectly possible to have back armor and a rocket pack, so at the very least I think you should offer a secondary armor option for that, even if it's slightly more expensive.

((I'll leave it for after-the-fact alterations. If an armor shell, or an armored variant of a module can be made, it will be made without issue - but it'll still be a module taking up the space that could have had a dedicated piece of armor on it.))

Lastly, I'm pretty sure just having the rocket pack won't allow for similar maneuverability as an MK.III, because I think the MK.III has a bunch of secondary rockets spaced all around the body.

((It'll allow for similar flight, at least. Maneuvering verniers can be added as secondary modules, or mounted on the same backpack via outriggers. Heck, my idea of rocket pod design is articulated enough to not need more verniers than the pods themselves can mount.))

Overall, I like the idea, but you should really make sure that the costs for this thing don't get too high- if buying an MK.III equivalent costs equal or more than an MK.III, it's inferior, because you're also trading effectiveness for versatility.))

((Yeah, that was a problem with the MCS. The MACS is intended to make use of the lease mechanic, wherein you don't pay full price for the additional equipment unless you've managed to get it destroyed or lost, and you can basically trade intact modules back and forth as you require. The basic flight pack, plugsuit plus exoskeleton plus rocket pack, is expected to cost about as much as the MkIII - which, I say, is quite alright. If all you ever need is a MkIII, you should buy a MkIII, as it's specialized to that purpose. But you won't get any lease prices on additional gear. And of course it's cheaper to upgrade from a plugsuit to a MACS equivalent of a MkIII, than it is to upgrade from a Mk2 to a MkIII, even if you take suit trade-in into account. (13 token for MkIII, 3 at most for trade-in of Mk2, 10 total. Equivalent exokeleton and rocket pack combo will cost about 8 token I think (PW mentioned half-price for initial lease cost). Although you'd be advised to do your best not to get them completely destroyed - I'm assuming repair costs are as usual.)))

[Radio Controlled]

Spoiler: @suit (click to show/hide)

Basic idea seems good in concept. Few things that spring to mind:
-make the base suit just powered enough it can sustain it's own weight. Unless the weight can really be kept low enough while still allowing for all the stuff you wanna do with it for it not to hamper regular people wearing it.
-making an Avatar sized mech sans synthflesh sounds doubtful to me in terms of practicality, but maybe pw will allow it with sufficiently advanced new tech and handwaving.
-I'd focus on the person/Mk.III sized version for now, cause I don't thing the fully modular design would work as well once you get into battlesuit range. Imagine building a fully modular car, it'd be more expensive than a conventionally build counterpart, or have less quality.
-A suit built like this will be more expensive than something made in a more focused manner. Again, flexibility and moddability come at a price, be it resources/money or quality/durability. But the lease system might help with that. But,
-I think we'll have to be careful with that lease thing, to ensure it doesn't get to complicated (and stuff will invariably get more complicated during field use and if enough time goes over it). And finding a good balance token-wise might also be non-trivial.

Individual modules are meant to be installable and removable by the user, quickly and without hassle.

I doubt that just anyone would be able to switch out parts, seeing as how most people couldn't even replace a piece of hardware in their computer, even with all the help one can get online.

I don't know if Miyamoto's/Aresteve's advanced exoskeletons can do it, or are basically cheaper/more powerful for the same price or maybe better protected/designed,

As soon as a science team is freed up I'm putting them on a dedicated myomer upgrade project

I asked for a very comprehensive library of different designs to be made, so whatever is needed should be obtainable from there. I'm not sure why you'd tie up a science crew to do basically the same thing again (saying "but mine uses myomers" doesn't really mean anything, unless you could explain why those should be better than whatever ARESTEVE came up with. Hell, he might even have something like it himself, you'd have to check honestly).

Overall, I like the idea, but you should really make sure that the costs for this thing don't get too high- if buying an MK.III equivalent costs equal or more than an MK.III, it's inferior, because you're also trading effectiveness for versatility.

Yeah, I see this suit idea as the ideal option for people who are willing to trade efficiency for versatility.

and you can basically trade intact modules back and forth as you require.

In how much detail has this been worked out? Does a person has to pay some extra tokens for switching out modules if they've been used (similar to how armory stuff loses value even if it's been used, even if it isn't damaged)? I'd assume it'd be like that, otherwise it'd basically be completely free equipment changes.

I'm personally not sure if I'm a big fan of the lease system idea, because I suspect it'll just turn put to be equivalent to owning the suit, but at vastly lower prices because reasons.

[piecewise]

Anton Chernozorov

Anton Chernozorov

When you say a foot or two, you mean a foot or two from the barrel or from impact? I'd not sure if this is a shotgun or a rifle. I'm not terribly up on my plasma physics.

From the barrel. Basically, it's a melee weapon. Like a... well, like an ungodly-powerful blowtorch that can only work for a split second at a time, taped to a big robot's fist and used as a punch dagger.

It's pretty certain that right now we can't recreate the free-floating plasmaball without automanips, we need more research for that, and probably that lab. But we can make a melee-range plasma-based armor penetrator that will work on anything. I call it a Plasma Stake.

Sounds fine to me! Battle suit and Avatar only, arm mounted rather then carried and can either be single shot with replaceable "Cartridges" or have an attached battery pack that is bigger and more obvious but allows for 5 shots before reload.

((Perfect, pretty much exactly how I wanted it. Is the science team working on it now (and what's the completion date if it is), or can we just stat it up and test it?))

Seems a simple enough thing. Powerful but short range and requiring large batteries and a powerful suit to use. Stat it up.  The council will no doubt have ideas.

1.First, uh, did you have your committee of fair people look at those numbers for the Biochemical forge first?  I mean, you nerfed brain fleshpits from five hundred a month to a hundred and fifty a month, and now these make nine hundred a month.  And they cost the same amount of time.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Seeing as how a forge is much more versatile, while a fleshpit it more focused for a single thing, it should be the opposite.

PW, would you be willing to change this, or rather just ignore it? Maybe lower forge to 500, and boost pits to 1000? Hep players, what do you think about this?

Yes, that's good. I'll have Aresteve queue up enough to stock the Sword's armory for a while, along with your two solutions. Good job on that - it's simple, but very multipurpose (and effective, if those reports are anything to go by).

Message back:

Thanks. I'll look into getting a description.

((Pan, would you mind looking into that for the moment?))

seems fine to me

Answering question:

1.Only three build crews are working on stuff.  Two on the Spess Magick, one on the Biochem Forge.  It took thirty days to build the Forge, originally.

Hephaestus things:

2.Ask ARESTEVE to automate some basic practice/training stuff for the sods, so that they aren't just sitting around.  They can learn, right?

3.Upload that program that records movements to, oh, a hundred robosods.  Ask ARESTEVE to specifically get them to do a lot of varied movements, and shoot a lot of different guns.

4.Although I haven't updated the wiki (Will do either late Thursday, or Friday), two fleshpits finished expansion.  Set them to restart.

Tinker:

5.The shock gloves give exactly 4 TPU, because they were specifically designed with powering laser rifles in mind.  This is why the Testament originally used way more energy than it could reasonably need.

6.I'd like to take Anton's Gungnir Electrolaser idea, and modify it a bit.  Instead of simply attaching a tesla saber, make a simple kit that adds a sparkgap to the front of a laser rifle, and links it to a 16 TPU rechargable battery.  This is a thirtieth the capacity of a normal tesla saber battery.  The kit should also link that 16 TPU battery to the laser's power supply, and to a secondary trigger.

7.When the secondary trigger is pulled along with the main one, the spark gap should start unloading eight TPU into the laser, horribly electrocuting whatever is being shot.  Whenever neither trigger is pulled, the battery should recharge.  This means that you'd have two seconds of electrolaser, with a four second recharge time.

8.Secondary mode: When only the secondary trigger is pulled, 4 TPU from the glove is directed into the sparkgap.  This is effectively a shock bayonet.

9.Since this is just an extremely small battery, a spark gap, and some wiring, would it be possible to sell it at one token per kit?  That would make a full electrolaser 4 tokens (2 laser, +1 gloves, +1 electrolaser kit), one token cheaper than the Spectr which can do a similar thing using it's microwave mode, plus a host of other stuff.

Well then it should take about 20 this time.

They're already being trained. It's just that they don't have anything to do after that and they have no commander.

Ok

Ok

There's a list of what each gun uses in tpu on the wiki I think. Anton's laser would probably use about the same amount of energy, maybe a bit more, as a normal rifle, I assume. So if thats like 2 or 3 then your gloves will work fine.

So regular laser rifle, with a battery that provides power to a spark gap and, optionally, the laser itself. Fair. Pricing on that battery might need some thought since it's rechargeable.

Not sure if those numbers work out but the idea seems ok for now.

I'm gonna wait for the council's opinion before agreeing or disagreeing. The basics seem fine, I just want to hear their ideas about the details and the pricing.

Anton Chernozorov

Okay, we're starting to ramp things up now. The amp factory is underway, the production is being expanded, our shipbuilding facilities are ready, the debris field is condensed. The only bottleneck right now is our - or my, perhaps - reluctance to mass-produce outdated tech. I really need that lab. But I can still do some things without it. Better get on it, then.

Anton got up from his desk, and headed to the on-site R&D labs. There should be at least one team of scientists that aren't working on a specific project, and he was about to make their hands full for the foreseeable future.

First order of business, get another salvage/constructor ship built. As soon as it's built, its orders are to dig into the pile of scrap hanging out in our low orbit, and repair all ships that can still be repaired. Everything that's useless scrap, is to be shuttled to slightly higher orbit, and arranged to mimic the appearance of a "naturally formed" after-battle debris belt. We're not short on raw materials, and it's going to have tactical uses later.

Second order of business, in addition to the constructor ship, order the shipyard to build a small fleet of FTL-incapable in-system defense ships. Go for the largest class we can field with this shipyard, light cruisers, a half-dozen of standard UWM design. These will be the meatshields that will defend the planet and the remote facilities here in case something shows up while we don't have anything better to throw at it.

Third and most important order of business, head down to the R&D labs, and present a new project to the free Science team.

Spoiler: Project description: Mission-Adaptable Combat Suit Series (click to show/hide)

So, here it is then. The MACS line.

At the core of the project lies modular design. At every given stage, there is a "core", which is equipped with different elements to make it perform to its maximum ability in any given mission.

The MACS series replaces the standard suit series from Mk2 to the Avatar, although perhaps "replaces" is too strong a word. It aims to complement the existing suit series, rather than outright replace it.

The first tier of the MACS line is the MACS Core Suit. It is based on the MCP suit prototype, brought up to Mk2 par in medical gear, and equipped with a lightweight unpowered exoskeleton, which provides rigid mountpoints and power transfer systems for the various equipment. It provides some protection against blunt impacts, but no extra physical ability. This exoskeleton also serves to provide mechanical feedback on the user's movement, acting as a full-body control interface similar to the Battlesuit's control cuffs, assuming there is something in need of such control.

Robotbody and synthflesh people can install the MACS Core System without the suit for the same price instead, gaining the same advantages, and a bit of extra armor around vulnerable areas instead of the medical and survival equipment.

Building onto the MACS Core, there are a great number of modules, fit for every occasion. By necessity, the first tier of MACS is the most varied, as the human-sized combatants generally find themselves in the most number of different circumstances. Individual modules are meant to be installable and removable by the user, quickly and without hassle.

Here are some of the modules for the MACS Core:

• Exoskeletal Support - the MACS Core's unpowered exoskeleton is designed to accept a "muscle layer", that turns it into a proper, powered exoskeleton that provides physical bonuses. This helps the MACS user wear some of the heavier modules, that come with a steep strength requirement.
• Armor - Much like the "muscle layer", the MACS Core is designed to accept an armor layer. As the Core is covered in hardpoints, putting on armor is a fairly simple matter - although any "slot" that is already occupied by a module obviously can't be armored. So if you put a rocket pack on your back, you better hope nobody around you is in a literally back-stabbing mood.
• Power Pack - as the MACS Core provides power supply lines for everything mounted on it, it makes sense to be able to install a standard 2, 4, 6, or 8-TPU generator into a dedicated slot on the back.
• Weapon Pods - any free hardpoint on the MACS Core can be outfitted with a weapon, using a simple weapon-specific mount. Special suit software is provided to assist aiming with oddly-positioned or specially-mounted weapons. ((put grenade launchers on your feet, why don't'cha))
• Rocket Flight Module - This moderately heavy back attachment provides the user with Mk3-like rocket-powered flight ability, as well as the necessary suit software to control it via the suit's movement feedback system. Buzz mode included.
• Aerial Flight Module - This lightweight back attachment comes with a pair of ducted electric turbofans driven by a dedicated generator, allowing the user agile flight capability inside any atmosphere and rapid movement in water, although in both cases it's inferior to that of the Rocket Flight Module. It does not, however, suffer from any longevity limit, and can keep the user flying at max speed for however many years the generator lasts.
• Heavy Laser Module - This heavy back-mounted pack contains a modified Raduga Free-Electron Laser. The focusing array of the laser is linked to the rest of the weapon's hardware by an array of moving lenses, providing the user with a shoulder-fired heavy laser that can be neatly folded back when not in use, and is not nearly as hard to handle.
• Close Combat Module - This heavy upper-torso package provides the user with two forearm-mounted, elongated "strike shields", thick metal plates mounted on synthetic muscle actuators, as well as a reinforced upper-torso exoskeleton to efficiently manipulate them. The strike shields are universal melee weapons, combining protective qualities with battering-ram-like reciprocating action, kinetic amplifiers, and monoatomic razor edges on the non-striking sides.
• Squad Support Module - A fleshtech special, this back-mounted module contains a set of equipment specializing in squad support, including CamEye-equipped mini-drones, boosted communications equipment, a powered universal toolkit, and an extended medical kit.
• Rocket Boot Module - A leg-mounted, reduced-size variant of the Rocket Flight module, this pack provides the user with rather less acceleration and flight time, but will still allow for some manner of flight when a more specialized module is equipped on the back.

There is lots of others possible, but I really should've been writing my past ideas down. As a special mention, the Red Hand electrolaser and Saint's Power Gloves can both be used with this system supplying the power.

The second tier of the MACS system is the Universal Mobile Armor, which is in effect a redesigned, customizable Battlesuit, following the same design principles as the MACS Core. Taking the weakpoints of the Battlesuit into account, it introduces sleeves of heavy tactical mesh over its exposed joints (as in the Kulak sketch here), and make the hatch release system a two-switch design, requiring a switch on either side of the hatch to be released before the hatch would open, allowing the pilot inside more opportunity to react. In effect, it's an excuse to overhaul the Battlesuit and get rid of some of its flaws, but as a part of the MACS system the new Mobile Armor's extra modules (flight pack, kinamps, electric defenses, claymores, integrated lasers) will fall under the same lease system.

Finally, tier 3 of the MACS system is an Avatar-sized mech developed under the name "ATX", Armored Trooper Experiment. Designed to be operated by an un-augmented soldier, but using the full-body control system provided by MACS, and also equippable with a range of modules that will have to be developed after the mech itself is. The mentioned "Kulak" modification, however, is going to be built separately, as part of the Plasma Stake testing program.

See about getting an estimate on completion for each of the two orders, and the three individual tiers of the MACS.

((Comments welcome.))

You're kinda running out of workers here, not even just specialist teams but normal human workers. This Place ran on a skeleton crew remember.

Alright, that could take a while, there's a significant drain on the resources coming in, but any particular armament you want for them? Anything specific or just a balanced mix?

(There seems to be some talk still going on about the MACS so I'll let that finish and any changes you want made before I give estimates. To save time and possible redundancy.)

[Sean Mirrsen]

Spoiler: Re: MACS (click to show/hide)

Basic idea seems good in concept. Few things that spring to mind:
-make the base suit just powered enough it can sustain it's own weight. Unless the weight can really be kept low enough while still allowing for all the stuff you wanna do with it for it not to hamper regular people wearing it.

((I rather expect it would be doable. More importantly, the hardpoints can't be hardpoints if they aren't affixed to something hard - the exo-frame takes care of rigid and secure mounting. I expect it'd be no more encumbering than wearing a well-fitted set of medieval armor - even if the weight is there, it's spread out comfortably over the entire body, and does not limit movement.))

-making an Avatar sized mech sans synthflesh sounds doubtful to me in terms of practicality, but maybe pw will allow it with sufficiently advanced new tech and handwaving.

((Yeah, we've already determined that. However, I still hold by the idea that a much cheaper, mass-produced every-infantryman giant mech (hence the project name, ATX - Armored Trooper Experiment) will be beneficial on the battlefield. If nothing else, it will wipe the floor with enemy battlesuits. The ATX, and MACS in general, is not just for the Sword's limited use - I fully intend to make them available to the rest of ARM forces.))

-I'd focus on the person/Mk.III sized version for now, cause I don't thing the fully modular design would work as well once you get into battlesuit range. Imagine building a fully modular car, it'd be more expensive than a conventionally build counterpart, or have less quality.

((Most of a battlesuit's equipment is internal, and the different loadouts available serve the same purposes, but are not interchangeable. The purpose of a modular design is to mass-produce the basic model, and distribute the modules to be equipped according to circumstances. Saves on logistics - if X people need to fight in Y types of missions and bring battlesuits along, then they either need X*Y full suits that is each intended for the specific role, or just X modular suits, and X*Y much cheaper modules to equip.))
 

-A suit built like this will be more expensive than something made in a more focused manner. Again, flexibility and moddability come at a price, be it resources/money or quality/durability. But the lease system might help with that. But,
-I think we'll have to be careful with that lease thing, to ensure it doesn't get to complicated (and stuff will invariably get more complicated during field use and if enough time goes over it). And finding a good balance token-wise might also be non-trivial.

((What I got so far (it's not official, it was just PW's first suggestion) is that lease of an equipment piece costs half of its normal price - but it's limited to the loadout of your suit, just the MACS-specific gear. Repairs are standard cost, full replacement is full price. I don't know if changing the loadout will cost anything - my initial idea was that it shouldn't, since the whole premise of the system is that you're free to change your loadout whenever. But perhaps for balance purposes, some sort of exchange cost should be included. Perhaps a flat cost to respec - i.e. regardless of what gear you're returning, you're docked the same 1-2 token every time you do it (once per mission if you do it, for simplicity's sake), plus any repair costs. So that you don't pay more for returning several cheap modules versus one expensive one.

Thus, keeping track of it is pretty easy. You constantly owe half the price of the modules you're wearing, which you pay back if you lose them. Pay an extra token if you're changing gear, on top of repair cost for damage and the lease price difference of the modules. It's a more cost-efficient system overall, assuming one isn't always locked into the same role and circumstances - so useful for the alien can opener retrieval teams.))

Individual modules are meant to be installable and removable by the user, quickly and without hassle.

I doubt that just anyone would be able to switch out parts, seeing as how most people couldn't even replace a piece of hardware in their computer, even with all the help one can get online.

((I dunno, how many people do you know that don't know how to dress themselves? Putting on a Mk1, with the associated plumbing, would be a more complex task than installing something like a rocket pack - you literally pull it on like a rucksack, pulling on the straps till it clicks into the hardpoint, and the suit does the rest from there.))

I don't know if Miyamoto's/Aresteve's advanced exoskeletons can do it, or are basically cheaper/more powerful for the same price or maybe better protected/designed,

As soon as a science team is freed up I'm putting them on a dedicated myomer upgrade project

I asked for a very comprehensive library of different designs to be made, so whatever is needed should be obtainable from there. I'm not sure why you'd tie up a science crew to do basically the same thing again (saying "but mine uses myomers" doesn't really mean anything, unless you could explain why those should be better than whatever ARESTEVE came up with. Hell, he might even have something like it himself, you'd have to check honestly).

((Yeah, I expect PW will have questions anyway, so I'll clarify what I want done then. But basically, your research wanted to improve on existing synthetic muscle - same principle, but more efficient, capable of using more power. I want to check and see if we can't make an altogether different kind of myomer, than what UWM uses, and that we use by extension. We have the snowglobe data, and at least some examples of strange materials that we could research and use. It's not that the existing synth-muscles are bad - it's just that we could really use something much more powerful, that doesn't come with the baggage that synthflesh has, so that Avatar-class combat machines could be used by anyone, and without worrying about what will happen if someone manages to damage it in exactly the wrong way.))

and you can basically trade intact modules back and forth as you require.

In how much detail has this been worked out? Does a person has to pay some extra tokens for switching out modules if they've been used (similar to how armory stuff loses value even if it's been used, even if it isn't damaged)? I'd assume it'd be like that, otherwise it'd basically be completely free equipment changes.

I'm personally not sure if I'm a big fan of the lease system idea, because I suspect it'll just turn put to be equivalent to owning the suit, but at vastly lower prices because reasons.

((It wasn't worked out in that great detail just yet, but I outlined the preliminary idea above. Think it'll work?))

ninja edit:

Seems a simple enough thing. Powerful but short range and requiring large batteries and a powerful suit to use. Stat it up.  The council will no doubt have ideas.

((Okay, will do as soon as I have time.))

You're kinda running out of workers here, not even just specialist teams but normal human workers. This Place ran on a skeleton crew remember.

((Hmm. Do we need anything special to hire more workers?))

Alright, that could take a while, there's a significant drain on the resources coming in, but any particular armament you want for them? Anything specific or just a balanced mix?

((Balanced mix of standard weapons. Do we need/have the ability to expand out resource acquisition rate?))

(There seems to be some talk still going on about the MACS so I'll let that finish and any changes you want made before I give estimates. To save time and possible redundancy.)

((See long post in spoiler above))

[Toaster]

((Can you grow Sod engineers?))

[Radio Controlled]

((Can you grow Sod engineers?))

((Nope, additional SCIENCE and CONSTRUCTION crews must be recruited, not cloned. See wiki for some details, and ask pw what exactly one must do in-game.))

I expect it'd be no more encumbering than wearing a well-fitted set of medieval armor - even if the weight is there, it's spread out comfortably over the entire body, and does not limit movement.))

Sorry to break it to ya, but decent medieval armor was ridiculously heavy. They needed small cranes to lift someone in it to put him on his horse.

Tell me, have you ever done long hikes with a heavy pack? Or even with a lot of soggy clothing? Because having a frame attached to you that can support different equipment will encumber you.

Also, didn't we discus before that 'giant mechs' above battlesut size make no sense sans synthflesh? Do you remember the various things pointed out there?

Saves on logistics - if X people need to fight in Y types of missions and bring battlesuits along, then they either need X*Y full suits that is each intended for the specific role, or just X modular suits, and X*Y much cheaper modules to equip.))

Or they use a few models and suck it up. This is a war, after all! And modular suits will never be as cost-effective as whole suits, so for ARM-wide use more traditional designs might be better (but for us players, who face many different missions, it has an advantage for sure).

And as I've detailed somewhere else, I don't think one can just swap out basic stuff like armor on a battlesuit, at least not if we use realistic-ish engineering. I've built stuff like cars and mechs and such with legos before (about as modular as you can get  ) and even then it's not just a case for providing mounts for equipment and letting it be, especially armor is stronger when built into the suit superstructure.

((I dunno, how many people do you know that don't know how to dress themselves? Putting on a Mk1, with the associated plumbing, would be a more complex task than installing something like a rocket pack - you literally pull it on like a rucksack, pulling on the straps till it clicks into the hardpoint, and the suit does the rest from there.))

I always imagined people either getting help from crew, or getting special training for it (or just pw handwaving it for expediency).

((Yeah, I expect PW will have questions anyway, so I'll clarify what I want done then. But basically, your research wanted to improve on existing synthetic muscle - same principle, but more efficient, capable of using more power. I want to check and see if we can't make an altogether different kind of myomer, than what UWM uses, and that we use by extension. We have the snowglobe data, and at least some examples of strange materials that we could research and use. It's not that the existing synth-muscles are bad - it's just that we could really use something much more powerful, that doesn't come with the baggage that synthflesh has, so that Avatar-class combat machines could be used by anyone, and without worrying about what will happen if someone manages to damage it in exactly the wrong way.))

Well, I asked for ARESTEVE to include all possible data he had (including snowglobe stuff) and to explore as many different technologies as he thought were reasonable, and to try out wholly new concepts if applicable, and to save all relevant data. That's why it took so long, even with a science crew.

((It wasn't worked out in that great detail just yet, but I outlined the preliminary idea above. Think it'll work?))

perhaps, yes. Just kinda trying to avoid a situation where one 'leases' stuff for cheap, but then in practice ownes it without real drawbacks to actually buying it full price (one must also pay for repairs himself when own stuff is damaged, for example).

[Parisbre56]

((Can you grow Sod engineers?))

((Nope, additional SCIENCE and CONSTRUCTION crews must be recruited, not cloned. See wiki for some details, and ask pw what exactly one must do in-game.))

((They could just build a blackship (or that advanced stealth freighter I proposed) and send it to another world to recruit/abduct people. Or outright strike a deal with another world (preferably some sort of small colony that is independent of the UWM and has little contact with it, like the sharkmist colony) or coerce another world with the threat of retaliation to make them enter the ARM and allow us to freely operate and recruit people from it.))

[syvarris]

Hephaestus managing stuff:

1.Just so we don't question if this has happened: Order production of weapons/some armor for all of our sods.  As to exactly what that entails... ask Radio.

Quick Tinker question:

2.Why do PSL crystals explode?  Do they only explode when cracked, and they're just fragile, or do they always explode after a short duration?

Here's my actual project: I'm making a cheaper, lighter battlesuit equivalent.  It trades raw survivability for smaller size, mobility, and some cheapness.

3.First, take a basic braincase, with everything it needs to function, and make it roughly spherical.  Then coat it in two layers of battlesuit plate.  The thing should need a fairly involved process to remove the brain- not just a button press.  Also add cameras to the hull, in the same manner as a normal battlesuit

4.Attach one of the larger exoskeleton units that the scientists designed- something that can carry the entire assembly and still have the same stat bonuses as a regular exoskeleton(+1/+1).  More importantly, make sure it can fit through doors and things, even if it's slightly awkward.

5.Armor the limbs with a single layer of battlesuit plate, and put sleeves of one of the stronger ballistic clothes over the joints.  Try to design it such that movement isn't hindered, but nothing can be jammed into the joints.  Also, make sure that the cloth can survive at least one shot from common small arms.

6.Add the external electrification system that Battlesuits have, and the kinetic amps in the hands, but not the claymores.  Electrification system should have the ability to electrify just the hands, and change how much power is being pumped through them.

7.Add some flight rockets, preferably about as effective as a mobility battlesuit's.

8.If that is insufficient, or if I'm just not allowed to build a battlesuit equivalent in one turn, assign a research crew to designing the thing.  ETC?


Hey, Radio?  Gun balance committee?  I now have things for you guys to balance cost for: The above Mini BS, and the stuff in the below spoilers.

Spoiler: Shocking Graspers (click to show/hide)

A pair of specially designed gloves, which are connected by strong cables to a 4 TPU generator on the wearer's back.  The gloves, when turned on by voice command, channel electricity through conductive patches on the palms or knuckles.  They can be activated separately, and have the amount of electricity varied.  When activated, the electricity reliably shocks whatever is grasped or punched- causing death or neuromuscular incapacitation, depending on the strength of the shock.

There's several safety features- if the cable is severed, or the gloves detect degradation of the conductive patches of the glove, power is automatically turned off in the relevant arm.  The gloves are also entirely insulated from electricity.

Assuming that weapons are modified to accept power from a conductive grip, those that work on four TPU or less can use the glove's power instead of whatever is normally used.  In the case of a laser rifle, this effectively adds a token to it's cost, because removing the battery does not make the weapon cheaper.

Spoiler: Electrolaser kit (click to show/hide)

This is a kit designed to work with any laser rifle, although it's preferably to use it with one that has a generator.  It adds a sparkgap over the firing port, and a 16 TPU rechargeable battery, which is connected to the weapon's power system.

It also adds a second trigger, which control the sparkgap.  When both the main and secondary triggers are pulled, the sparkgap fires at eight TPU, forming a powerful electrolaser.  When just the secondary trigger is pulled, the sparkgap fires at 4 TPU, effectively working as a shock bayonet.

Lastly, it adds a switch which sets all shocks to a low enough power that it stuns and incapacitates a target, but does not kill.

Assuming that you use a standard laser rifle, it would have ten seconds of electrolaser firing.  If you use a generator, it would have only two, but it would recharge when not firing.

It should cost only a single token, due to being just a bunch of cheap components and a tiny battery (it holds 104 less TPU than a standard laser rifle battery).  This would mean that a generator fed electrolaser would cost four tokens- one less than a Spectr, which is capable of similar electicity tricks using microwave mode, and has many more features aside from that.

Those okay?

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Speaking of which, Plasma Stake/"Jet Magnum" write-up:))

Spoiler: For the Council's perusal (click to show/hide)

Description: Designed to mimic the deadliness of a Plasma Projector without all the requisite physics-breaking technology, the Jet Magnum is a melee-range plasma stake weapon. Cheap and inobtrusive, the weapon fits over the forearm of a large robot such as a Battlesuit or Avatar of War, leaving the hand free for usual manipulation. Being overall larger, the Avatar-sized variant has somewhat greater maximum penetration, and deals rather more damage.
Function: The Jet Magnum uses ammunition, composed of a dedicated capacitor bank and a metal rod, to create and fire "plasma stakes" - short jets of superheated plasma intended to cleanly penetrate through nearly any physical armor up to two feet thick, and causing severe damage beyond that. It requires precise timing to properly use, as the stake's penetrating power rapidly diminishes with distance, and it must be fired at the exact moment when the robot's fist strikes the enemy for maximum damage.
Ammunition: Either single-shot reloads that fit into the weapon proper, or a five-round autoloader with dedicated battery bank, that makes the weapon slightly more obvious and vulnerable. The autoloader can be combined with a single preloaded round, giving a final capacity of 6 rounds at the cost of more time spent reloading.

Cost: 7 token for Battlesuit, 10 for Avatar.
Ammo cost: 1 token for 2 single-shot reloads. 3 token for 5-round loader.

Requirements: Requires a lot of strength and damn huge arms. Fundamentally unusable without a Battlesuit or Avatar of War, or equivalent.

((Seeing as the Plasma Projector costs 15 token, and its ammunition is a token per round, I thought it would be fitting that the manipulator-less melee version should be significantly cheaper, and have its ammo be rather more affordable. There is also a surprising dearth of melee weapons of high power, so there's almost nothing to compare against. 7 token for the Battlesuit version might be a little too low, but I wanted a decent gap between the two versions, and making the Avatar version more than 10 tokens seems wrong.))

[Radio Controlled]

1.Just so we don't question if this has happened: Order production of weapons/some armor for all of our sods.  As to exactly what that entails... ask Radio.

Make weapons that fall in the small/lower tier (gauss rifles, a few crystalline projectors, a few of the prototype weapons (Spektr and Testament) for added testing) for 3/4 of our forces, robot and flesh. Give 1/4 of them weapons in the medium tier (Sibilus/rocket rifles, cutting lasers, gauss cannons, a few of the prototype weapons(raduga)). Give all of them civic defenders longcoats (or something equivalent).
((Not gonna completely supply things that are in prototype still, but we'll be building thousands more sods in the future, so giving slightly outdated tech isn't as much a problem as not giving them any.))

Hey, Radio?  Gun balance committee?  I now have things for you guys to balance cost for: The above Mini BS, and the stuff in the below spoilers.

Some of the council might be indisposed for a little while, so don't expect an answer immediately.

Also, kinda hard to balance until pw has replied to a lot of this, but core idea seems reasonable enough.

Some small things:

Try to design it such that movement isn't hindered, but nothing can be jammed into the joints.

I always find phrases like these kinda funny, since people are basically asking to have their cake and eat it to, without having to think up a way to get there themselves. If it were that easy, you'd suspect the UWM to use it (though we can always handwave that with "they're incompetent!"). Not saying it's not actually possible or that you're wrong for just asking for it, but it's the wording I find hilarious 

Also add cameras to the hull, in the same manner as a normal battlesuit

Is there a main optical cluster for extra viewing modes, or only normal cams?

Add the external electrification system that Battlesuits have,

Does anyone know how exactly that works? Cause I don't know if it'd be possible to have that feature with the current setup.

Assuming that weapons are modified to accept power from a conductive grip, those that work on four TPU or less can use the glove's power instead of whatever is normally used.  In the case of a laser rifle, this effectively adds a token to it's cost, because removing the battery does not make the weapon cheaper.

Wouldn't it be easier to say that the cable tot he gloves can be disconnected and then reconnected to power stuff, rather than provide it through the gloves?

@ Plasma Steak: not sure if 'jets of superheated plasma intended to cleanly penetrate through nearly any physical armor up to two feet thick' and 'Cheap and inobtrusive' are two things that really go together... Either way, I'd go for a single system (I doubt pw will differentiate in-game between 7 and 10 token version). 1 token for 2 shots/3 for 5 seems a little bit too cheap, but that might just be me (then again, 0,5 token a shot also isn't exactly 'for free'...). I dunno, maybe it isn't, honestly can't say for sure. Also, I'm unsure if a very short jet will be able to really penetrate thicker high-level armor well enough to one-shot kill, due to not knowing if the majority of the heat won't be lost/deflected or if the material can heat up fast enough to allow it's full damage potential to go through (in a plasma projector, capturing the plasma in an orb allows it to just keep moving through the material to deliver its energy optimally).

Hmm. Say Sean, how long is the jet created? And what's its diameter?