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[Radio Controlled]

((Some preliminary questions and remarks: Sean, is it just me, or would that weapon of yours be rather expensive? What with the cyclotron and such. What weapon tier are you aiming for here? low-mid for the first, and mid-high for second? What price range would you like to stay in?

Secondly, if it sustains any damage, am I correct there's a good chance the firing mechanism could get compromised (e.g. small crack in vacuum chamber)? And how bulky would it be?

In game terms, I think the "cooked" shots should be fired as one would use a dynamic bonus - i.e. announcing the charging a turn early - but at the same time, realistically, for the regular frequencies (unlike, i.e., the X-Ray entry below) the charging time for "maximum safe" power would be short enough to fire the weapon within the 5 seconds that a turn normally lasts, albeit one would have to exercise some precise timing - i.e. an Uncon check to actually fire the weapon precisely on time, in addition to a Con check to hit the target. For "maximum theoretical" power shots, you would really have to announce it beforehand.

Feels like it'd overcomplicate things. I'd either make it a strict 1-turn charge needed, or let the chance it backfires horribly go up if one doesn't let it cool for X turns (first overcharge is sans extra risk, second one 1/6 chance to backfire (rolled for before CONJ roll), third one 3/6 etc).

"Maximum safe" shots are not supposed to cause weapon damage unless the shots are made consecutively without giving the weapon time to cool down.

Might be handy to translate stuff like this into game terms. E.g. "you need to wait 3 turns between each overcharged shot."

[piecewise]

It rotates around with the galaxy as a whole, much like the planets around it.

How fast does it rotate in relation to Hep? Is the planet between it and the system's star usually, or does it depend on the time of year?

Defend so that nothing gets through or so that only certain things can? Do you want a gate or a permeable membrane?

You'll probably hate me for it, but I's like to hear both options. Just the general idea is good enough.

Depends on the position of the planet in it's rotation. Sometimes you'd have to go past the star to reach it, other times you fly directly away from the star.

Well, a gate would just be "Kill everything that comes out of that, except when we enter a code on our side because we expect a friendly ship to come through soon. A big thermonuclear minefield that you can turn on and off would be a good example. Foolproof, but you better hope you get your timing right.

A permeable membrane could be the same thing, but with the incoming ship able to signal for it to turn off as well. And you might use something like orbiting lasers or something similar. Really, explosives or placed guns would work for either. But if an enemy ship gets hold of the code  they could get through the defense, which is technically true for the gate, but much harder to do, since you'd have to fake not only the code but the origin of the transmission. And do it real fucking fast before you blow up.

I concur with Saint's request for more testing, especially against actual human targets (that includes full prosthetics) rather than just armor. It looks to be a very slightly more expensive sidegrade to the monorazor at the moment. For the 20cm version, at least. keep in mind - the more you test it yourself, the shorter a time we'll need to bring up potential prototyping.

Let's decant him, then.

Bring XanII around.

((Same as with Syv - how effective would it be at actual killing? Long, thin damage profiles are wonderful against armor, but not so much against fleshy things. Whether the damage profile remains neat and slim when it comes into contact with squishy things remains to be seen, but if it does, even a direct hit to the brain might not even so much as incapacitate (in the timeframe of a melee fight, at least - and depending on what areas of the brain you hit, it could kill them immediately). Remember the story of Phineas Gage.))

You are officially free Xan.

Also, assuming it was vibrating, the spike would do a pretty good job of damaging the flesh around it.

Hmm, what approach should I take to being revived?

Xan falls out of the stasis chamber much like most ARM members do - shuddering, covered in stasis fluid, and naked. Only difference is that he's a blob of flesh roughly the size of a large dog lying down. After quivering for several seconds, a part of it extrudes into the air, becoming thinner before welling up at the end to become an eye on a stalk. It rotates slightly, scanning around the room before settling on Simus and Saint's robot form. Seeing them, a semblance of a mouth forms on part of it and begins to speak.

"You. Synthflesh body. Name ... Simus. Your name is Simus. I do not know the others. I am sorry, I have not spoken before." The mouth twists slightly, the eye looking from place to place. "I do not remember this place, but I remember you. If I see you here ... I died, did I not?

((Hopefully you're alright with the eye and the mouth not being rolled for, PW - it's just so I can talk to them. Also, since the uncompensator is off, this should be possible.))

And then Xan spent several seasons sending minions down to earth, then making them giant, then bemoaning their failure.

Nothing, after putting myself in here.
And very well. I assume you've put a restrictor on me somehow.

Transform into a human, average height and proportions, with a plain unremarkable face and body structure, hair, etc.

If I may at some point acquire biomass so I can grow to the correct size for a human, I would be grateful.

I think you don't have enough biomass for that; you're just a fleshblob with a brain in it for now, aren't you?

Indeed. You have the standard tracking/shock implant, as well as something of my own design - a tweaked decompensator. When I activate it, attempting to change your shape or any such activity will knock you unconscious for a few minutes and otherwise be ineffective. Of course, the same neural activity also denotes psychological attack - so while it's active, you'll simply be knocked out rather than have your mind manipulated.

Whether you leave it in when you return to the ship is not my concern - I'm sure the Doctor could extract it just as easily as it went in. Though I'm sure one could tempt you with tokens for a voluntary step-down on your power, leaving it in. And the controls in someone else's hand, maybe Miyamoto's.

As for biomass, I'd much rather not, but just enough to be of a decent stature wouldn't be out of the question, I suppose. Aresteve, if you would direct a worker to bring... raw materials for the fleshpits would do, I suppose, to the executive level?

Enable the uncompensator once XanII has assumed a decent form - at full size.

We'll hold off on this for now.

"Of course.  Thank you for considering it."

If I end up being needed for anything, ignore the below spoiler.  Otherwise, it seems my business with Xan is mostly wrapped up, so I'll leave the replication and feeding of Xan to Simus and head back to Tinker.

Spoiler: Tinker things (click to show/hide)

(I'll probably be going back to the MCP.II after this, unless something else pops up.  For now, I'm testing the ballistics of some stuff, especially against battlesuits.)

Rocket Rifle:

1.What does it do to a human being wearing an MK.I?

2.What does it do to a synthflesh body?

3.What does it do to a human wearing a civic defender's longcoat?

4.What does it do to a steel plate, like the hull of a ship or a structural wall?

5.Finally, what does it do to a battlesuit?

Cutting Laser:

6.What does it do to a battlesuit?  Before you've said they were relatively ineffective, but really, I want to know.  Even if it's just 'heats up to a warm glow'.

Piezoelectric Shard Launcher (full size )

7.What does it do to a battlesuit?

Heavy Gauss Cannon (Solid metal slug rounds- NOT nuclear)

8.What does it do to a battlesuit?

Save that for a moment and take a look at this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I propose the following for the Testament:


Cost: 4 tokens, generator and one cannister included
Ammo: 200 rounds. 1 token per magazine/cannister. Can be hooked up to a regular Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank, which will provide 900 rounds (note that such a tank is heavy enough to warrant extra strength needed).

Stat requirement: Strength 4 (mostly due to large cannister), Strength 8 (if using Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank)
Range: Mostly intended for short range, can be used for medium range but accuracy will suffer  (Melee:-2 Short:+2 Medium:0 Long: -1 Extreme:-3)

Fire modes: burst (10 shards at once per turn, equals 20 turns of shooting), full auto (25 shards per turn, equals 8 turns of shooting)
Damage: relatively low per shard, but high fire rate makes up for this. One shard can kill an unarmored target, but against even lightly armored targets multiple shards might be needed.
AP: acceptable to good for a low-tier weapon. Can penetrate a civic defenders longcoat on a good hit, but damage will suffer. Has a small chance to penetrate a single layer of battlesuit plate/Milno plate on a very good hit, but will do low actual damage to target (though high rate of fire offsets this somewhat; Death by a thousand cuts). Can take down someone in Milnoplate with a good deal of concentrated fire, but battlesuits are virtually resistant (except when striking vulnerable parts such as joints).

Advantages: high fire rate, cheap ammo, large ammo capacity, slightly better AP than similar low-tier weapons
Disadvantages: high price for low tier weapon, small strength requirement, low damage per shard (fire rate makes up for this).

Opinions.

((Effectively, yes. The other tests were to see if the latency from having the sod brain remotely perform those functions nearby was low enough to work, so that rather than having to mount one of them to someone, an entire squad could share one.

I'd presume that the system is far from perfect seeing as it would take a bit of time for the sod to take control, not to mention that it would just kill without knowing whether or not doing so would affect the mission. Along with the usual issues of unfamiliar situations hampering it.))

It's low enough if the brain is within a reasonable distance.

And an entire squad could use one, but it couldn't control two or more at a time.

The sod would have exactly 0 concern for your life as long as it could get things done or put the other people in the squad into a better tactical position.

You could ask the Doctor directly. Also, I am somewhat concerned about the safety of doing such.

Take the MCP-I suit and reinforce the chest with the same fabric that the Civic Defender's longcoat and add the auto-medical equipment into the pack (including a small tank of that regenerative fluid), and an iris on the helmet set to activate on massive body trauma. Given mass-production, what would this cost the Sword people?

armor would increase cost by 1. 2 with the medical system. Not sure what the regenerative fluid you're talking about is.

I think we're up to 3 tokens. Which is 2 cheaper then the MK2 at least

 

Anton Chernozorov

Yes, one is a rifle-like weapon for regular people, the other is a CutLas-like weapon for exosuits and battlesuits. More in the description below.

((Okay, so here's a little novel I wrote about what makes up the FEL. As far as I know PW okayed the general principle of the weapon, the only questions are those of exact ingame functions and balancing.

Spoiler: FEL decriptions, for the Council's perusal (click to show/hide)

I'll be naming the weapon series unimaginatively this time - "Spectrum". Or "Spektr". Better names welcome. Bifrost?

The FEL is a Free-Electron Laser, as opposed to the solid state lasers that our regular laser rifles are. Its defining quality is its ability to adjust its output wavelength without any mechanical alterations to the device, simply by altering power inputs. The weapon, as reimagined into the ER-verse by me, consists of a 4-TPU generator, a cyclotron accelerator and a linear accelerator for electrons, a magnetic oscillator - "wiggler" - chamber that makes up the bulk of the weapon's barrel, and a focusing array. The laser is formed by the oscillation of an accelerated electron stream within the wiggler chamber.

The operating principle, as imagined here, is that once the weapon is turned on, the generator is constantly keeping the cyclotron accelerator running, maintaining a ready stream of electrons pre-accelerated to near the required velocity, so that when the trigger is pulled the weapon does not waste time spooling up. When the trigger is pulled, the electron stream from the cyclotron is passed into the linear accelerator, bringing the electron stream to required near-lightspeed velocity. The accelerated electron stream is directed into the wiggler chamber. The wiggler chamber contains vacuum, and the electromagnets along its length make the stream oscillate via complex-ish physical effects. At every "peak" of the oscillation, an electron generates a photon. Due to the nature of electrons, they do not all oscillate at the same rate or in the same phase, initially, but gradually fall into phase and start generating a more coherent beam. As more and more electrons fall into phase - a process called "microbunching" - the output beam gets stronger. To expedite this process, the output beam is often reflected back into the wiggler chamber, causing electrons to microbunch into a frequency matching the laser a lot faster. Once a required nominal power is reached - determined by the weapon's capacity to contain excess heat more than anything - the beam stops looping in the weapon and is released through the focusing array. If more power is needed, the user can take it on themselves to manually "overcook" the laser. The resulting output beam can be much stronger - in ideal conditions and with maximum microbunching rate, a FEL is said to be capable of reaching several times the energy of the electron stream itself. The heat from the resulting laser beam can easily cause damage to the focusing array or the wiggler chamber, however, so the high-power laser beam can only be maintained safely for a short time. Due to the design of the weapon (refer to the picture I've drawn earlier), excessive overcooking is likely to cause the laser to burn through the reflector on the end of the wiggler chamber - and, by extension, through the back of the weapon and the shooter. The maximum power is limited by the durability of the weapon.

Regarding the weapon's power: I'd speculate that due to efficiency and the high thermal capacity of the design, the "nominal" power level of the FEL rifle would be about 30-50% higher than that of the regular laser rifle. This is the level at which it would be able to fire continuously without sustaining damage - the Spectrum is intended to be useful as a squad support weapon, providing continuous supporting or suppressing fire. Its "maximum safe" power, at which it can dish out maybe a 1-second pulse without sustaining permanent damage, could probably be as high as twice of its nominal power. "Maximum theoretical" power, where it will only be good for one shot and melt afterwards, could be another 50% over that, with a nonzero chance of the weapon firing backwards through itself instead. All of these could probably be extended via some form of advanced cooling.

Which is effectively what the battlesuit-portable "heavy" version of the FEL would provide. Its main differences from the rifle-size FEL, aside from double the input power and generally larger components, is a large active cooling array that will make up a lot of the weapon's mass. Its "nominal" power would be higher than that of a cutting laser by about the same 50%, but its 200% markup "maximum safe" power would cause the active cooling to actively kick in, and give its at most the standard 5 seconds of firing time. "Maximum safe" shots are not supposed to cause weapon damage unless the shots are made consecutively without giving the weapon time to cool down.

In game terms, I think the "cooked" shots should be fired as one would use a dynamic bonus - i.e. announcing the charging a turn early - but at the same time, realistically, for the regular frequencies (unlike, i.e., the X-Ray entry below) the charging time for "maximum safe" power would be short enough to fire the weapon within the 5 seconds that a turn normally lasts, albeit one would have to exercise some precise timing - i.e. an Uncon check to actually fire the weapon precisely on time, in addition to a Con check to hit the target. For "maximum theoretical" power shots, you would really have to announce it beforehand.

Regarding the variable wavelength: The main feature of the FEL, as I see it, is the enhanced utility of the multi-wavelength emission. The focusing array, to this end, should probably work as an anti-focusing array too, instead allowing the beam to be shot as wide as a 90-degree cone out the barrel, allowing actual wide-area application.
The FEL would allow fine-tuning the frequencies to any specific wavelength, but for simplification purposes, I see it as mainly having 5 primary modes. Microwave, infrared, visible-light, ultraviolet, and X-ray.

Microwaves offer the best power transmission ratio through atmosphere, but they are easily blocked by any sort of obstacle. On a low-power setting they can be used to disperse crowds, cook food, and destroy exposed electronics. On high power they are probably the best way to deal with unarmored flesh-based lifeforms, as with a wide beam they will quickly cause severe burns, without unduly damaging the surroundings.

Infrared is mostly just heat. Most useful in industrial processes, its application in a weapon are scarce, and its only advantage over microwaves is ability to bypass meshlike layers of armor. This is the least useful mode unless you want to warm up a room without causing undue damage to anyone, or encounter an enemy somehow simultaneously shielded against microwaves and UV.

Visible light has the advantage of being visible. Besides optional use as the biggest flashlight ever, this has an advantage when you are trying to use the weapon for suppressive fire, as the highly visible beam will deter sane people from approaching it. Only slightly more useful than IR, although a small alteration to the focusing array may add another use. A prism will diffract visible light at a different angle depending on its spectrum, so rapid fluctuation of the output wavelength within the narrow visible light band, when directed through a prism, will create a "spread attack" effect, shotgun-like with no reduction in penetrating power from high diffusion, and without any physically moving parts within the weapon.

UV light has served everyone well so far in standard laser rifles. This should be the default mode for the weapon. If no special function is needed, this is probably what the weapon should stay at.

X-rays have the best penetration capability, and deal the most collateral damage to biological targets. They are highly damaging, but are also very hard to generate, or rather focus and reflect, meaning they are slow to gain power by the looping-beam seeding method. In game terms, this could mean that if you fire X-Rays, you can deliver extra damage at the cost of having to "cook" the weapon before every shot, like you would when overcharge shooting a different wavelength.

The practical upshots of most modes are affecting maximim range, and effectiveness against specific forms of armor and types of target. Synthflesh in particular could be more vulnerable to some frequencies than others, as well as conventional means of anti-laser defense.

((Wall of text warning. No pictures this time, sorry. I was/am busy. Tell me if you need further clarifications.))

I assume they will look over it to double check.

[Nikitian]

((@GM The regenerative fluid is the fleshknitter stuff Maurice developed during the year stay on Hephaestus:))

During the year-long break in hostilities, Maurice renews his scientific assault on a way to temporarily boost regeneration in a human (without genemodifications or any other permanent changes), likely with either tweaked stem cells (natural or functionally identical synthetic) or short-living, self-devouring organical agents equivalent to Mesk's.

We'll say you find a new substance that can heal minor to moderate injuries. It costs 5 per "can"

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Some preliminary questions and remarks: Sean, is it just me, or would that weapon of yours be rather expensive? What with the cyclotron and such. What weapon tier are you aiming for here? low-mid for the first, and mid-high for second? What price range would you like to stay in?

((Cyclotrons and linear accelerators, as well as the wiggler chamber, are fundamentally all the same things that you find in a gauss rifle - lots and lots of magnets. The weapon is really something of an unholy offspring of a laser and a gauss rifle, it uses magnets to generate a laser. Besides the cost to R&D the thing, most of the weapon's components are relatively cheap.

As for weapon tier, I'm thinking low-mid tier, 3-5 token for the rifle, and mid-high, 8-10 token for the heavy laser. It's a straight upgrade of the respective standard laser weapons, heavier and more expensive but with more power and more utility.))

Secondly, if it sustains any damage, am I correct there's a good chance the firing mechanism could get compromised (e.g. small crack in vacuum chamber)? And how bulky would it be?

(("If it sustains any damage" is a pretty universal conditional there, almost any regular weapon would be compromised by damage. The vacuum chamber in the wiggler might seem like a weakspot, but consider that it's sitting in the middle of a huge block of magnets, flanked by the wiggler magnets on either side and the linear accelerator on the bottom. It's more of a maintenance weakspot, it's more complex to take apart and tinker with, and it can't be easily field-repaired I guess. But it won't be especially vulnerable to damage in this regard, and unlike most weapons, if the chamber is damaged the weapon will simply fail to work, without spectacular explosions or deadly discoballs. This somewhat offsets its usual capacity for accidental suicide-by-overcharging.

As for bulkiness, imagine a laser and a gauss weapon of the same tier merged together. The generator and the numerous magnets make for a mean, heavy, and pretty sturdy device. The heavy version adds an active cooling system on top of that. I'm thinking a Strength 3-4 requirement for the rifle version, and 6-8 for the heavy version. No recoil, obviously, but those things are heavy.))

In game terms, I think the "cooked" shots should be fired as one would use a dynamic bonus - i.e. announcing the charging a turn early - but at the same time, realistically, for the regular frequencies (unlike, i.e., the X-Ray entry below) the charging time for "maximum safe" power would be short enough to fire the weapon within the 5 seconds that a turn normally lasts, albeit one would have to exercise some precise timing - i.e. an Uncon check to actually fire the weapon precisely on time, in addition to a Con check to hit the target. For "maximum theoretical" power shots, you would really have to announce it beforehand.

Feels like it'd overcomplicate things. I'd either make it a strict 1-turn charge needed, or let the chance it backfires horribly go up if one doesn't let it cool for X turns (first overcharge is sans extra risk, second one 1/6 chance to backfire (rolled for before CONJ roll), third one 3/6 etc).

((But why not both? 1-turn charge is easy to keep track of, but you might want to shoot now, and you can try to make it work. There is no backfire chance for maximum safe power, all you are risking is missing the target, that's the point of calling it "safe".

How about lower of Con and Uncon rolls for safe overcharge?

Unsafe overcharge, for where you don't care if the weapon melts, must be announced ahead of time, however, and you only roll Con to hit but you roll a d6 to see if the gun discharges forward or backward.))

"Maximum safe" shots are not supposed to cause weapon damage unless the shots are made consecutively without giving the weapon time to cool down.

Might be handy to translate stuff like this into game terms. E.g. "you need to wait 3 turns between each overcharged shot."

((3 is a bit long. Make it 2.))

[Xantalos]

Well, a fleshblob the size of a small dog. But yeah.

When Sinus brings sufficient biomass, consume it and transform into Unremarkable Man.

[Radio Controlled]

Depends on the position of the planet in it's rotation. Sometimes you'd have to go past the star to reach it, other times you fly directly away from the star.
Well, a gate would just be "Kill everything that comes out of that, except when we enter a code on our side because we expect a friendly ship to come through soon. A big thermonuclear minefield that you can turn on and off would be a good example. Foolproof, but you better hope you get your timing right.

A permeable membrane could be the same thing, but with the incoming ship able to signal for it to turn off as well. And you might use something like orbiting lasers or something similar. Really, explosives or placed guns would work for either. But if an enemy ship gets hold of the code  they could get through the defense, which is technically true for the gate, but much harder to do, since you'd have to fake not only the code but the origin of the transmission. And do it real fucking fast before you blow up.

Small problem: if you destroy anything coming through it, it could explode and pepper the surrounding area with shrapnel going at light speeds. Could that compromise the other defenses? On the one hand, space is big, so the chance of anything getting hit is small. On the other, even very small pieces of shrapnel are dangerous at these kinds of speeds.

Secondly: if the planet Hephaestus and the jump point rotate in predictable ways, could the UWM try to send in a few small ships/projectiles aimed so that, after coming out of the jump the would go straight for Hep? Basically, instead of slowing down after jumping, use the ship as a giant kinetic projectile. Thousands of tons going at fractions of c into the planet. Hell, couldn't they do that right now? Wouldn't even need to assemble a fleet, just send a few small ships our way and boom, rebellion backbone broken.


((@ syv: I wrote up most of that stuff for your weapon. Is it anything like what you had in mind?))

Cyclotrons and linear accelerators, as well as the wiggler chamber, are fundamentally all the same things that you find in a gauss rifle - lots and lots of magnets. The weapon is really something of an unholy offspring of a laser and a gauss rifle, it uses magnets to generate a laser. Besides the cost to R&D the thing, most of the weapon's components are relatively cheap.

Now, I'm not an expert on these sort of components, but isn't a cyclotron a good bit more complicated than some magnets and a generator? What with needing to create very, very precise magnetic fields and such. Not saying it'd be ridiculously expensive, but still. 5 tokens sounds reasonable to me though.

For the heavy one, I think 10-11 sounds better than 8, seeing as how a regular cutting laser already costs 8 (and that is a weapon of less power, less utility, and less complexity, and use batteries instead of own generator.

almost any regular weapon would be compromised by damage.

And then you have some other weapons.

But really, just feels like the cyclotron or linear accelerator parts would be more susceptible to damage than other rifles. You should ask pw about this though, he might not bother about simulating that.

I'm thinking a Strength 3-4 requirement for the rifle version, and 6-8 for the heavy version. No recoil, obviously, but those things are heavy.

About 4-ish for the rifle and 8 for the heavy feels about right, yeah.

((But why not both? 1-turn charge is easy to keep track of, but you might want to shoot now, and you can try to make it work. There is no backfire chance for maximum safe power, all you are risking is missing the target, that's the point of calling it "safe".
How about lower of Con and Uncon rolls for safe overcharge?
Unsafe overcharge, for where you don't care if the weapon melts, must be announced ahead of time, however, and you only roll Con to hit but you roll a d6 to see if the gun discharges forward or backward.))

Because starting to need other kinds of rolls feels like overcomplicating things to me. Hell, I'd be surprised if pw wouldn't just forget about what to roll after a while. Also, if the average combat round only lasts a few seconds, then how would announcing that one is going for an unsafe overcharge-now shot diminish the actual time needed to charge the thing? Or would that extra turn needed for safe overcharge work to represent the trooper focusing or what?

Also also, couldn't you just add some electronics so that the weapon will discharge automatically if the charging up goes on too long? Better an accidental forward shot than a backward (through the shoulder) one. Oh, and is there any way to safely release the charge instead of releasing it (in case that thing you thought was a xeno monster was actually a kitten). I'd think not, but not entirely sure.
Personally, I'd just go with a overcharge option that needs a turn to charge and that, once charging is done, cannot be stored or undone, the weapon must be fired (it'd discharge itself after maximum safe threshold).

((3 is a bit long. Make it 2.))

Eh, was a random example. Does that include combat rounds though (that are sometimes only a few seconds long)?

[Empiricist]

Charles tests whether or not an exoskeleton and/or Pawn SFE (the tommygun turret thing) can be remotely controlled through this method. He gets a cost estimate for the system.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Now, I'm not an expert on these sort of components, but isn't a cyclotron a good bit more complicated than some magnets and a generator? What with needing to create very, very precise magnetic fields and such.

((Surprisingly, not that painfully precise. The first cyclotron was built in 1932. The basic design is a vacuum chamber (obviously), a pair of bigass D-shaped magnets to accelerate the particle, and another magnet running a static field to keep it in place. I think. Something like that. The biggest problem is making it small.

You could probably simplify the design by losing the linear accelerator and feeding the beam all forward, but you'll have the problem that the beam will have to stay active while it warms up, and without the loopback mechanism you have no way to contain it. Plus the weapon will be like six feet long, with the magnetic chamber and the focusing array in one line.

For the heavy one, I think 10-11 sounds better than 8, seeing as how a regular cutting laser already costs 8 (and that is a weapon of less power, less utility, and less complexity, and use batteries instead of own generator.

((Yeah, 10-11 token is definitely reasonable, especially if it keeps the 50% nominal power increase. The charged shot could really do a number on a battlesuit.))

And then you have some other weapons.

But really, just feels like the cyclotron or linear accelerator parts would be more susceptible to damage than other rifles. You should ask pw about this though, he might not bother about simulating that.

((They sound like high-tech, fragile devices, but you may remember the scene in Iron Man 2 where Tony Stark adjusts his particle accelerator by propping it up with random junk and turning the output lens with a bigass wrench. The reality of high-power magnet-powered machinery like that is that any way you look at them they resemble a gaslamp fantasy locomotive. Huge metal slabs, thick coils of wire, etc.

The way I consider it, there is rarely any part of a typical weapon that can take a hit without compromising the weapon in some way. Hit either the power pack, or the lasing chamber, or the focusing lenses of a standard laser rifle and it'll break just as well. In this case you have a laser weapon built like a gauss weapon, so it's actually less vulnerable due to all the magnets lining it. Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter - it's not armor, and any direct hit on the weapon will break it. It might be good for a few brainings though. ))

Because starting to need other kinds of rolls feels like overcomplicating things to me. Hell, I'd be surprised if pw wouldn't just forget about what to roll after a while. Also, if the average combat round only lasts a few seconds, then how would announcing that one is going for an unsafe overcharge-now shot diminish the actual time needed to charge the thing? Or would that extra turn needed for safe overcharge work to represent the trooper focusing or what?

Also also, couldn't you just add some electronics so that the weapon will discharge automatically if the charging up goes on too long? Better an accidental forward shot than a backward (through the shoulder) one. Oh, and is there any way to safely release the charge instead of releasing it (in case that thing you thought was a xeno monster was actually a kitten). I'd think not, but not entirely sure.
Personally, I'd just go with a overcharge option that needs a turn to charge and that, once charging is done, cannot be stored or undone, the weapon must be fired (it'd discharge itself after maximum safe threshold).

((I'd really like to keep the unsafe overcharge bit, but if you think it'll overcomplicate things then all right.

Really, the problem is exactly that the weapon can't be kept charged, and has to fire or it'll blow. The problem is knowing when it's still safe to keep charging the weapon. The Uncon roll represents that - picking the timing right so that the weapon is charged enough to deal extra damage, but not so it blows up or discharges prematurely (thus missing the target if you haven't been keeping the sights on it).

There's no way to safely release a charged shot without letting it loose somewhere. Either it goes out or it goes into the weapon, which more than likely will melt it. While it cycles between near-perfect mirrors in the loop the heating is manageable, but if the weapon tries to absorb the beam's energy it'll melt for sure. ...Could be useful for a self-destruct system if you ever need it for it.

I'd say... well, the reason I wanted the charged shot to be instantly usable is because it increases the usefulness - you can't fire while you're charging a shot, so you miss a turn on charging if you use it. Realistically, when using the self-seeding method by looping the laser, a FEL should reach its maximum output within seconds. Maybe... maybe to hell with extra checks and delays, and really just allow people to fire overcharge shots like from a gauss rifle, but with the extra caveat that doing so consecutively increases the chances for a deadly failure? One shot is safe, a shot on the next turn is 1/6 chance of failure, next is 2/6, etc, as proposed earlier. Two turns to cool down to safe again.))

((3 is a bit long. Make it 2.))

Eh, was a random example. Does that include combat rounds though (that are sometimes only a few seconds long)?

((Hmm. Well, one way to do it is to say that you can't be firing the weapon for those 2 turns if you want it to cool down. There's only so much heat it can radiate, and the heat from standard firing is pretty much it - if you have extra heat you want to lose, you will have to stop shooting. Since an overcharge is twice the power of a standard shot, saying that you have to idle for 2 turns to bleed off the heat from it seems reasonable enough.))

[syvarris]

((@ syv: I wrote up most of that stuff for your weapon. Is it anything like what you had in mind?))

((Hrm.  Yeah, it's similar to what I want, although I have minor gripes about the ammo and fire rate.

First, a section of me hates myself for this, but I'd rather the magazine sizes be reduced to 180 and 810 respectively.  That would mean a Testament shard has exactly a third the volume of a full-size PSL shard, which...  Well, I'm not even OCD but I prefer it.  It's consistent, and I like consistent.

Second, for fire rates, I'd like to know what they do.  If someone uses auto during a turn, are they actually suppressing people?  Or is it just a 'use more ammo for more damage' option?  Would one person firing a Testament full-auto have more effect than a pair of people firing gauss rifles?

Regardless, I'd like there to be a... non-dakka option for the gun.  A semiauto option, and a 3-round volley option which would be the workhorse.  Judging from the description you gave, the second would reliably kill a person if you hit center of mass, right?


This is what I would like.  Would this work?
Canister mag: 180 shots of fluid, 1 token
Backpack mag: 810 shots of fluid, 4 tokens
Fire rates: Safe, Semi, 3-Volley, 9-Volley, 20-Auto

The last one is the only real difference.  An extra turn of fire, but less damage.  From the description you gave, I assume it wouldn't do much to milnoplate anyways, so trading longer suppression ability for damage seems reasonable.  It doesn't fit perfectly with the PSL mag, but who's gonna spend forty turns firing full auto and never shoot normally?


Also, two minor things: One, why does it have an Extreme range increment at all?  A gauss rifle can't even reach that far, and it's a solid steel 20mm.  Two, what's it's power draw?  I'm guessing it's something really low, like a .5 TPU generator or something.


@Spektr FELR durability
I agree with Sean.  It's a thick, heavy lump of metal.  Sure, if you whack it with a sledgehammer, you'd probably break something, and there'd be a chance of catastrophic failure.  However, most weapons would just flat out break under that abuse- even an AK-47.

Also, heh, I think your gun might outperform mine.  It's certainly better for suppression, what with having a visible laser option, and a generator.  Can you give it a shotgun mode, and then just sweep it around to blind everything?))

[Radio Controlled]

Surprisingly, not that painfully precise. The first cyclotron was built in 1932. The basic design is a vacuum chamber (obviously), a pair of bigass D-shaped magnets to accelerate the particle, and another magnet running a static field to keep it in place. I think. Something like that. The biggest problem is making it small.

I'll admit that when I first learned about cyclotrons and such components, it was in the context of a nuclear physicist explaining theoretical ways of using fusion for stable power generation. And he stressed the infinitely deep chasm between a concept, and then actually working all the small details and have it work in a reliable and stable way. So maybe we're just having a different mental image here.

The reality of high-power magnet-powered machinery like that is that any way you look at them they resemble a gaslamp fantasy locomotive. Huge metal slabs, thick coils of wire, etc.

I always thought you needed all your magnets positioned very precisely in order to control the magnetic fields enough so that they're usable, but eh, it's a detail anyways that probably won't matter too much.

I'd really like to keep the unsafe overcharge bit, but if you think it'll overcomplicate things then all right.

Note that my opinion, or that of the council in general, doesn't really matter in the end, it's still pw who decides in the end what goes and what doesn't. This is just how I, personally, feel about it, and how I would present things to the council.

Really, the problem is exactly that the weapon can't be kept charged, and has to fire or it'll blow. The problem is knowing when it's still safe to keep charging the weapon. The Uncon roll represents that - picking the timing right so that the weapon is charged enough to deal extra damage, but not so it blows up or discharges prematurely (thus missing the target if you haven't been keeping the sights on it).

Again though, why not add a small computer to solve this? It could do two things: when putting the weapon into charge mode, and after squeezing the trigger, it will automatically discharge after a set amount of time if the user doesn't do it themselves (you can do some testing on the weapon range to determine what a 'safe amount of time' means) You lose the little bit of flexibility from not being able to reach the upper upper levels of power, but make the weapon so much safer in the end. Seems like a worthwhile trade off. And secondly, after firing overcharge it locks down the weapon for X turns (e.g. 2), preventing any usage until it's safe again. Again, you lose a little bit of flexibility for a huge amount of safety and making it idiot proof (and looking at the kind of people we have, that might be a good idea  ).

First, a section of me hates myself for this, but I'd rather the magazine sizes be reduced to 180 and 810 respectively.  That would mean a Testament shard has exactly a third the volume of a full-size PSL shard, which...  Well, I'm not even OCD but I prefer it.  It's consistent, and I like consistent.

I did no take shard size or RPM into account when determining ammo, but squarely in terms of 'amount of turns you can fire on 1 cannister'. My idea was to use 'inefficiencies with the crystallization process' to handwave explain things if the math doesn't work out.

Second, for fire rates, I'd like to know what they do.  If someone uses auto during a turn, are they actually suppressing people?  Or is it just a 'use more ammo for more damage' option?  Would one person firing a Testament full-auto have more effect than a pair of people firing gauss rifles?

Burst means you can only fire at a single target. So if you enter a room with two people on opposite sides, you need two shots (two turns) to hit each one. With full auto you can hit as much as you want. Whether it suppresses depends on other things really (such as how concerned your target is about self-preservation), you could probably suppress while firing burst, but wouldn't be as good (no hail of fire to force them to keep their heads down). If you think a 10 round burst is much, you can pretend that it's actually two 5-round bursts (and that everyone is trained to double-tap). In the end, only rounds-per-turn really matters, not RPM or others. I also didn't include the semi option because then the math/the numbers get 'complicated' after using different fire rates for a while, and I'm trying to keep things easy for pw (though now that we track things through wiki, that might not matter as much anymore).

Maybe ask pw how many different fire rates he will put up with. In terms of ammo, I figured getting twice the amount of shooting turns per token would be good enough, but if you really want those extra fire modes, I personally would be willing to give you them (knowing full well that you'll take a hit in damage though!). Trying to keep things simple personally.

The last one is the only real difference.  An extra turn of fire, but less damage.  From the description you gave, I assume it wouldn't do much to milnoplate anyways, so trading longer suppression ability for damage seems reasonable.  It doesn't fit perfectly with the PSL mag, but who's gonna spend forty turns firing full auto and never shoot normally?

It might take down the target (for example, by the amount of electricity that gets through) if you can go full auto for a turn or two right on target. Dunno, was just trying to prevent a low-tier weapon ripping through mid-tier armor without that weapon giving up something major in return (a gauss rifle could do it with special ammo, but that's very expensive).

Also, two minor things: One, why does it have an Extreme range increment at all?  A gauss rifle can't even reach that far, and it's a solid steel 20mm.  Two, what's it's power draw?  I'm guessing it's something really low, like a .5 TPU generator or something.

Because I copy-pasted from a different weapon in the armory, and didn't think to change it to N/A. Good catch.

I have no idea, and didn't consider it. Does it matter for the functioning of the gun? We might be able to guess it; how much was the original TPU of the Testament (before the balancing)?

Also, heh, I think your gun might outperform mine.  It's certainly better for suppression, what with having a visible laser option, and a generator.  Can you give it a shotgun mode, and then just sweep it around to blind everything?))

I tried not to let me nerf it into oblivion, so hopefully they'll both work out without one being vastly better. Likewise, the FEL should get some different drawbacks so that, in the end, the weapons are both a worthwhile option for potential buyers.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'll admit that when I first learned about cyclotrons and such components, it was in the context of a nuclear physicist explaining theoretical ways of using fusion for stable power generation. And he stressed the infinitely deep chasm between a concept, and then actually working all the small details and have it work in a reliable and stable way. So maybe we're just having a different mental image here.

I always thought you needed all your magnets positioned very precisely in order to control the magnetic fields enough so that they're usable, but eh, it's a detail anyways that probably won't matter too much.

((Well, I am kinda using a science team for making sure it works in a stable and sufficiently rugged way, so the matter of reliable operation can be attributed to that. As far as precision, well, suppose it all mounts on a metallic frame that doesn't let every little jolt and jostle affect the calibration. I don't think it'll make for a usable weakness, at least, although you could make a case for dropping it from some height (like an elevator shaft) causing damage in this regard. Maybe if PW ever wants to inflict extra suffering on someone unlucky enough to have fallen down yet another elevator shaft, and remembers this particular detail. ))

Again though, why not add a small computer to solve this? It could do two things: when putting the weapon into charge mode, and after squeezing the trigger, it will automatically discharge after a set amount of time if the user doesn't do it themselves (you can do some testing on the weapon range to determine what a 'safe amount of time' means) You lose the little bit of flexibility from not being able to reach the upper upper levels of power, but make the weapon so much safer in the end. Seems like a worthwhile trade off. And secondly, after firing overcharge it locks down the weapon for X turns (e.g. 2), preventing any usage until it's safe again. Again, you lose a little bit of flexibility for a huge amount of safety and making it idiot proof (and looking at the kind of people we have, that might be a good idea  ).

((No, I think I would like to keep the self-lethality potential in. Kinda like suicidal kickback on the gauss cannon. Automatically locking the weapon down would be very bad if you're in the middle of a firefight and really need to keep firing, it's the sort of design flaw slash feature that gets weapon designers kicked out of design bureaus after field testing and review. With this you get a charged shot option, and the option to keep firing charged shots if what you're shooting at is more likely to kill you than the weapon melting down in your hands.

And again, the exact problem is that with an automatic release mechanism you will have to keep a bead on the target while it is charging, or time your aiming with the countdown. It's not simply a matter of point and shoot anymore, the delay would require you to get your timing exactly right, like for a kinetic amp strike.))

Also, heh, I think your gun might outperform mine.  It's certainly better for suppression, what with having a visible laser option, and a generator.  Can you give it a shotgun mode, and then just sweep it around to blind everything?))

I tried not to let me nerf it into oblivion, so hopefully they'll both work out without one being vastly better. Likewise, the FEL should get some different drawbacks so that, in the end, the weapons are both a worthwhile option for potential buyers.

((Well, so far the drawbacks of the FEL are that it's heavy and expensive. Fragility doesn't work as a drawback, and introducing forced delays after overcharge firing might be going too far. The weapon can handle heating from continuous normal fire, so if anything an automated safety would just prevent you from overcharging a second time if the weapon is hot. Maybe only make the 2-turn delay forced if the weapon is overcharged two turns in a row?))

[syvarris]

@Radio

I did no take shard size or RPM into account when determining ammo, but squarely in terms of 'amount of turns you can fire on 1 cannister'. My idea was to use 'inefficiencies with the crystallization process' to handwave explain things if the math doesn't work out.

I figured as such, and I don't really mind, but I just like things to be defined.  I also like them to have whole, round numbers- it's just aesthetically pleasing to me, like a black car vs. a hot pink car.  They're functionally the same, just one looks better.  It doesn't matter very much to me though.  If you or PW want 200/900 mags, I'm fine with that too.

It might take down the target (for example, by the amount of electricity that gets through) if you can go full auto for a turn or two right on target. Dunno, was just trying to prevent a low-tier weapon ripping through mid-tier armor without that weapon giving up something major in return (a gauss rifle could do it with special ammo, but that's very expensive).

I think I might be overestimating the gauss rifle again, _{why is it 20mm if it's closer to a 7.62...}, but I think a gauss rifle is fully capable of killing a human in milnoplate.  Milno got shot in the head with a civvie hunting rifle during the one mission to the mining colony, and it almost snapped his neck.  And he had an avatar cloak, and it was a much weaker round.  An overcharged [CON:5] may or may not be capable of taking out a human guy in Milnoplate.

I don't think it can, but it bugs me every time someone directly compares a weapon's performance against something to a different weapon's performance against something, when we've never even tested the latter.

I have no idea, and didn't consider it. Does it matter for the functioning of the gun? We might be able to guess it; how much was the original TPU of the Testament (before the balancing)?

It doesn't really matter for the functioning of the gun- again,  I just like things to be defined.

The Testament originally had a 4 TPU generator, but note that that was supposed to be way more than it needed.  It only had that massive power supply because I was gonna make the gloves work with normal lasrifles, and so I could make the Testament use the same system for little extra cost.  Note that the full-size PSL also has a power draw of 4 TPU.

Later on, when I was considering putting the generator in the gun itself, I didn't because PW hadn't been clear whether it's AP ability was due to having so much extra power to pump into the rounds _{Despite trying to get him to clarify three times} and so I just decided it'd be easier to go with it and say it needed the 4 TPU.  I imagine that would have only exacerbated the eventual problems, if I pointed out that it only really needed 0.02  TPU at most, and got the original cost down to 4 tokens.

...

Y'know, I've thought about this for awhile, and I think a problem with the Testament is that I was underestimating it.  I thought it was OP, but I also knew that invariably every tinkerer who makes a gun thinks that of their weapon, regardless of it's actual ability.  So I forced myself into thinking that I was biased and wrong, in the first case of someone being right about it  That's kinda hilarious in hindsight.


@Sean

((No, I think I would like to keep the self-lethality potential in. Kinda like suicidal kickback on the gauss cannon. Automatically locking the weapon down would be very bad if you're in the middle of a firefight and really need to keep firing, it's the sort of design flaw slash feature that gets weapon designers kicked out of design bureaus after field testing and review. With this you get a charged shot option, and the option to keep firing charged shots if what you're shooting at is more likely to kill you than the weapon melting down in your hands.

And again, the exact problem is that with an automatic release mechanism you will have to keep a bead on the target while it is charging, or time your aiming with the countdown. It's not simply a matter of point and shoot anymore, the delay would require you to get your timing exactly right, like for a kinetic amp strike.))

...I think soldiers accidentally killing themselves and destroying the gun would be more likely to get you kicked out than merely stopping a soldier from shooting.  I mean, that's like choosing between playing russian roulette with six bullets or one- who would ever choose the former?

Why don't you have two safeties- one, normally on, which automatically fires the gun if it's charged to the maximum safe (for the gun- no permanent damage) level, and a second for when the first is disabled, which stops the gun just before it damages itself so bad that it fires backwards.  That way, a soldier (assuming he can press buttons) will never have the safety kick in and stop him from shooting when he really needs too, because if he waited any longer he wouldn't shoot at the enemy anyways- only himself.

@Pyro!

Hope you read this.  Just for the sake of expediency, can you okay the production of prototypes for the gun this turn, assuming you're fine with it?  I'd really like to be able to get this gun on the Spirit Of Communism's maiden voyage.

Anyways, TURN!

1.Piecewise.  I have discussed this with Radio, and I suggest the following alteration to his Testament statsheet.  He said that it was fine by him, is it okay with you?  (Differences in bold)

Spoiler: Modifed Testament (click to show/hide)

Cost: 4 tokens, generator and one cannister included
Ammo: 180 rounds. 1 token per magazine/cannister. Can be hooked up to a regular Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank, which will provide 810 rounds (note that such a tank is heavy enough to warrant extra strength needed).

Stat requirement: Strength 4 (mostly due to large cannister), Strength 8 (if using Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank)
Range: Mostly intended for short range, can be used for medium range but accuracy will suffer  (Melee:-2 Short:+2 Medium:0 Long: -1 Extreme:N/A)

Fire modes: Semiautomatic, 3-Volley (3 shards at once per turn, should be used most of the time.  Can be fired 60 times.)  9-Volley (9 shards at once per turn, equals 20 turns of shooting), full auto (20 shards per turn, equals 9 turns of shooting)
Damage: relatively low per shard, but high fire rate makes up for this. One shard can kill an unarmored target, but against even lightly armored targets multiple shards might be needed.
AP: acceptable to good for a low-tier weapon. Can penetrate a civic defenders longcoat on a good hit, but damage will suffer. Has a small chance to penetrate a single layer of battlesuit plate/Milno plate on a very good hit, but will do low actual damage to target (though high rate of fire offsets this somewhat; Death by a thousand cuts). Can take down someone in Milnoplate with a good deal of concentrated fire, but battlesuits are virtually resistant (except when striking vulnerable parts such as joints).

Advantages: high fire rate, cheap ammo, large ammo capacity, slightly better AP than similar low-tier weapons
Disadvantages: high price for low tier weapon, small strength requirement, low damage per shard (fire rate makes up for this).

For comparison:

Spoiler: Old Testament (hehe) (click to show/hide)

Cost: 4 tokens, generator and one cannister included
Ammo: 200 rounds. 1 token per magazine/cannister. Can be hooked up to a regular Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank, which will provide 900 rounds (note that such a tank is heavy enough to warrant extra strength needed).

Stat requirement: Strength 4 (mostly due to large cannister), Strength 8 (if using Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank)
Range: Mostly intended for short range, can be used for medium range but accuracy will suffer  (Melee:-2 Short:+2 Medium:0 Long: -1 Extreme:-3)

Fire modes: burst (10 shards at once per turn, equals 20 turns of shooting), full auto (25 shards per turn, equals 8 turns of shooting)
Damage: relatively low per shard, but high fire rate makes up for this. One shard can kill an unarmored target, but against even lightly armored targets multiple shards might be needed.
AP: acceptable to good for a low-tier weapon. Can penetrate a civic defenders longcoat on a good hit, but damage will suffer. Has a small chance to penetrate a single layer of battlesuit plate/Milno plate on a very good hit, but will do low actual damage to target (though high rate of fire offsets this somewhat; Death by a thousand cuts). Can take down someone in Milnoplate with a good deal of concentrated fire, but battlesuits are virtually resistant (except when striking vulnerable parts such as joints).

Advantages: high fire rate, cheap ammo, large ammo capacity, slightly better AP than similar low-tier weapons
Disadvantages: high price for low tier weapon, small strength requirement, low damage per shard (fire rate makes up for this).

2.IF Pyro okays it, start producing a few prototypes of whatever version you chose for physical testing with robosods.  Also produce some targets of various sorts for testing on- ballistics gel, robobodies, armor plates- just to make sure the real thing is the same as the VR thing.

[Sean Mirrsen]

...I think soldiers accidentally killing themselves and destroying the gun would be more likely to get you kicked out than merely stopping a soldier from shooting.  I mean, that's like choosing between playing russian roulette with six bullets or one- who would ever choose the former?

((In the case of a forced shutdown after charged shots, it's more like having an assault rifle with a 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher, that refuses to fire bullets unless there is a grenade loaded. First and foremost, a weapon must be able to fire. It can shut down to prevent excessive overheating (i.e. after the second consecutive shot), but forcing a cooldown will be very bad if you suddenly have a target you need the charged shot on, and it's not the last enemy standing.))

Why don't you have two safeties- one, normally on, which automatically fires the gun if it's charged to the maximum safe (for the gun- no permanent damage) level, and a second for when the first is disabled, which stops the gun just before it damages itself so bad that it fires backwards.  That way, a soldier (assuming he can press buttons) will never have the safety kick in and stop him from shooting when he really needs too, because if he waited any longer he wouldn't shoot at the enemy anyways- only himself.

((Well, that's basically what I suggested that last time. Make it so that the gun needs 2 turns of idling to cool down, but it won't force you to stop firing at nominal power unless you fire an overcharge when it's already overheated. That way you can actually open the fight with a charged shot, and keep firing unless you need another one.))

[piecewise]

For what purpose?

This describes my mindset much of the time around here.

Well, a fleshblob the size of a small dog. But yeah.

When Sinus brings sufficient biomass, consume it and transform into Unremarkable Man.

Thats making me remember a quote from "The Time machine"
"My name is of no consequence. You should know that I am the last who remembers how each of us...man and woman,made his own decision. Some chose to take refuge in the great caverns...and find a new way of life below the Earth's surface."

Depends on the position of the planet in it's rotation. Sometimes you'd have to go past the star to reach it, other times you fly directly away from the star.
Well, a gate would just be "Kill everything that comes out of that, except when we enter a code on our side because we expect a friendly ship to come through soon. A big thermonuclear minefield that you can turn on and off would be a good example. Foolproof, but you better hope you get your timing right.

A permeable membrane could be the same thing, but with the incoming ship able to signal for it to turn off as well. And you might use something like orbiting lasers or something similar. Really, explosives or placed guns would work for either. But if an enemy ship gets hold of the code  they could get through the defense, which is technically true for the gate, but much harder to do, since you'd have to fake not only the code but the origin of the transmission. And do it real fucking fast before you blow up.

Small problem: if you destroy anything coming through it, it could explode and pepper the surrounding area with shrapnel going at light speeds. Could that compromise the other defenses? On the one hand, space is big, so the chance of anything getting hit is small. On the other, even very small pieces of shrapnel are dangerous at these kinds of speeds.

Secondly: if the planet Hephaestus and the jump point rotate in predictable ways, could the UWM try to send in a few small ships/projectiles aimed so that, after coming out of the jump the would go straight for Hep? Basically, instead of slowing down after jumping, use the ship as a giant kinetic projectile. Thousands of tons going at fractions of c into the planet. Hell, couldn't they do that right now? Wouldn't even need to assemble a fleet, just send a few small ships our way and boom, rebellion backbone broken.


((@ syv: I wrote up most of that stuff for your weapon. Is it anything like what you had in mind?))

Cyclotrons and linear accelerators, as well as the wiggler chamber, are fundamentally all the same things that you find in a gauss rifle - lots and lots of magnets. The weapon is really something of an unholy offspring of a laser and a gauss rifle, it uses magnets to generate a laser. Besides the cost to R&D the thing, most of the weapon's components are relatively cheap.

Now, I'm not an expert on these sort of components, but isn't a cyclotron a good bit more complicated than some magnets and a generator? What with needing to create very, very precise magnetic fields and such. Not saying it'd be ridiculously expensive, but still. 5 tokens sounds reasonable to me though.

For the heavy one, I think 10-11 sounds better than 8, seeing as how a regular cutting laser already costs 8 (and that is a weapon of less power, less utility, and less complexity, and use batteries instead of own generator.

almost any regular weapon would be compromised by damage.

And then you have some other weapons.

But really, just feels like the cyclotron or linear accelerator parts would be more susceptible to damage than other rifles. You should ask pw about this though, he might not bother about simulating that.

I'm thinking a Strength 3-4 requirement for the rifle version, and 6-8 for the heavy version. No recoil, obviously, but those things are heavy.

About 4-ish for the rifle and 8 for the heavy feels about right, yeah.

((But why not both? 1-turn charge is easy to keep track of, but you might want to shoot now, and you can try to make it work. There is no backfire chance for maximum safe power, all you are risking is missing the target, that's the point of calling it "safe".
How about lower of Con and Uncon rolls for safe overcharge?
Unsafe overcharge, for where you don't care if the weapon melts, must be announced ahead of time, however, and you only roll Con to hit but you roll a d6 to see if the gun discharges forward or backward.))

Because starting to need other kinds of rolls feels like overcomplicating things to me. Hell, I'd be surprised if pw wouldn't just forget about what to roll after a while. Also, if the average combat round only lasts a few seconds, then how would announcing that one is going for an unsafe overcharge-now shot diminish the actual time needed to charge the thing? Or would that extra turn needed for safe overcharge work to represent the trooper focusing or what?

Also also, couldn't you just add some electronics so that the weapon will discharge automatically if the charging up goes on too long? Better an accidental forward shot than a backward (through the shoulder) one. Oh, and is there any way to safely release the charge instead of releasing it (in case that thing you thought was a xeno monster was actually a kitten). I'd think not, but not entirely sure.
Personally, I'd just go with a overcharge option that needs a turn to charge and that, once charging is done, cannot be stored or undone, the weapon must be fired (it'd discharge itself after maximum safe threshold).

((3 is a bit long. Make it 2.))

Eh, was a random example. Does that include combat rounds though (that are sometimes only a few seconds long)?

Not lightspeed, but still a relativistic speed. Depends on the direction it goes. It's possible though, at least in near by space.

Thats possible, though somewhat difficult. Remember that the time jumps take isn't consistent. They could eye ball it, but the inconsistencies are measured in months or even years depending on range of jump. Their kinetic projectile would probably end up having to burn heavily to redirect and remain at speed, which would give us more then enough time to intercept. It's possible they could get lucky, hit us at just the right time and drop a barrage of projectiles on us. Hell, they may try and brute force it, especially as the war goes on, but it won't be an easy thing to do.

Charles tests whether or not an exoskeleton and/or Pawn SFE (the tommygun turret thing) can be remotely controlled through this method. He gets a cost estimate for the system.

Both can, though the exoskeleton will need extra stuff loaded on to it since it has no inherent balance systems or anything like that.

Depends, really. Sod brains and basic transmission stuff is easy, the real cost would depend on how many bodies we're outfitting with it and how long of range you want it to work over.

@Radio

I did no take shard size or RPM into account when determining ammo, but squarely in terms of 'amount of turns you can fire on 1 cannister'. My idea was to use 'inefficiencies with the crystallization process' to handwave explain things if the math doesn't work out.

I figured as such, and I don't really mind, but I just like things to be defined.  I also like them to have whole, round numbers- it's just aesthetically pleasing to me, like a black car vs. a hot pink car.  They're functionally the same, just one looks better.  It doesn't matter very much to me though.  If you or PW want 200/900 mags, I'm fine with that too.

It might take down the target (for example, by the amount of electricity that gets through) if you can go full auto for a turn or two right on target. Dunno, was just trying to prevent a low-tier weapon ripping through mid-tier armor without that weapon giving up something major in return (a gauss rifle could do it with special ammo, but that's very expensive).

I think I might be overestimating the gauss rifle again, _{why is it 20mm if it's closer to a 7.62...}, but I think a gauss rifle is fully capable of killing a human in milnoplate.  Milno got shot in the head with a civvie hunting rifle during the one mission to the mining colony, and it almost snapped his neck.  And he had an avatar cloak, and it was a much weaker round.  An overcharged [CON:5] may or may not be capable of taking out a human guy in Milnoplate.

I don't think it can, but it bugs me every time someone directly compares a weapon's performance against something to a different weapon's performance against something, when we've never even tested the latter.

I have no idea, and didn't consider it. Does it matter for the functioning of the gun? We might be able to guess it; how much was the original TPU of the Testament (before the balancing)?

It doesn't really matter for the functioning of the gun- again,  I just like things to be defined.

The Testament originally had a 4 TPU generator, but note that that was supposed to be way more than it needed.  It only had that massive power supply because I was gonna make the gloves work with normal lasrifles, and so I could make the Testament use the same system for little extra cost.  Note that the full-size PSL also has a power draw of 4 TPU.

Later on, when I was considering putting the generator in the gun itself, I didn't because PW hadn't been clear whether it's AP ability was due to having so much extra power to pump into the rounds _{Despite trying to get him to clarify three times} and so I just decided it'd be easier to go with it and say it needed the 4 TPU.  I imagine that would have only exacerbated the eventual problems, if I pointed out that it only really needed 0.02  TPU at most, and got the original cost down to 4 tokens.

...

Y'know, I've thought about this for awhile, and I think a problem with the Testament is that I was underestimating it.  I thought it was OP, but I also knew that invariably every tinkerer who makes a gun thinks that of their weapon, regardless of it's actual ability.  So I forced myself into thinking that I was biased and wrong, in the first case of someone being right about it  That's kinda hilarious in hindsight.


@Sean

((No, I think I would like to keep the self-lethality potential in. Kinda like suicidal kickback on the gauss cannon. Automatically locking the weapon down would be very bad if you're in the middle of a firefight and really need to keep firing, it's the sort of design flaw slash feature that gets weapon designers kicked out of design bureaus after field testing and review. With this you get a charged shot option, and the option to keep firing charged shots if what you're shooting at is more likely to kill you than the weapon melting down in your hands.

And again, the exact problem is that with an automatic release mechanism you will have to keep a bead on the target while it is charging, or time your aiming with the countdown. It's not simply a matter of point and shoot anymore, the delay would require you to get your timing exactly right, like for a kinetic amp strike.))

...I think soldiers accidentally killing themselves and destroying the gun would be more likely to get you kicked out than merely stopping a soldier from shooting.  I mean, that's like choosing between playing russian roulette with six bullets or one- who would ever choose the former?

Why don't you have two safeties- one, normally on, which automatically fires the gun if it's charged to the maximum safe (for the gun- no permanent damage) level, and a second for when the first is disabled, which stops the gun just before it damages itself so bad that it fires backwards.  That way, a soldier (assuming he can press buttons) will never have the safety kick in and stop him from shooting when he really needs too, because if he waited any longer he wouldn't shoot at the enemy anyways- only himself.

@Pyro!

Hope you read this.  Just for the sake of expediency, can you okay the production of prototypes for the gun this turn, assuming you're fine with it?  I'd really like to be able to get this gun on the Spirit Of Communism's maiden voyage.

Anyways, TURN!

1.Piecewise.  I have discussed this with Radio, and I suggest the following alteration to his Testament statsheet.  He said that it was fine by him, is it okay with you?  (Differences in bold)

Spoiler: Modifed Testament (click to show/hide)

Cost: 4 tokens, generator and one cannister included
Ammo: 180 rounds. 1 token per magazine/cannister. Can be hooked up to a regular Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank, which will provide 810 rounds (note that such a tank is heavy enough to warrant extra strength needed).

Stat requirement: Strength 4 (mostly due to large cannister), Strength 8 (if using Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank)
Range: Mostly intended for short range, can be used for medium range but accuracy will suffer  (Melee:-2 Short:+2 Medium:0 Long: -1 Extreme:N/A)

Fire modes: Semiautomatic, 3-Volley (3 shards at once per turn, should be used most of the time.  Can be fired 60 times.)  9-Volley (9 shards at once per turn, equals 20 turns of shooting), full auto (20 shards per turn, equals 9 turns of shooting)
Damage: relatively low per shard, but high fire rate makes up for this. One shard can kill an unarmored target, but against even lightly armored targets multiple shards might be needed.
AP: acceptable to good for a low-tier weapon. Can penetrate a civic defenders longcoat on a good hit, but damage will suffer. Has a small chance to penetrate a single layer of battlesuit plate/Milno plate on a very good hit, but will do low actual damage to target (though high rate of fire offsets this somewhat; Death by a thousand cuts). Can take down someone in Milnoplate with a good deal of concentrated fire, but battlesuits are virtually resistant (except when striking vulnerable parts such as joints).

Advantages: high fire rate, cheap ammo, large ammo capacity, slightly better AP than similar low-tier weapons
Disadvantages: high price for low tier weapon, small strength requirement, low damage per shard (fire rate makes up for this).

For comparison:

Spoiler: Old Testament (hehe) (click to show/hide)

Cost: 4 tokens, generator and one cannister included
Ammo: 200 rounds. 1 token per magazine/cannister. Can be hooked up to a regular Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank, which will provide 900 rounds (note that such a tank is heavy enough to warrant extra strength needed).

Stat requirement: Strength 4 (mostly due to large cannister), Strength 8 (if using Piezoelectric Shard Launcher ammo tank)
Range: Mostly intended for short range, can be used for medium range but accuracy will suffer  (Melee:-2 Short:+2 Medium:0 Long: -1 Extreme:-3)

Fire modes: burst (10 shards at once per turn, equals 20 turns of shooting), full auto (25 shards per turn, equals 8 turns of shooting)
Damage: relatively low per shard, but high fire rate makes up for this. One shard can kill an unarmored target, but against even lightly armored targets multiple shards might be needed.
AP: acceptable to good for a low-tier weapon. Can penetrate a civic defenders longcoat on a good hit, but damage will suffer. Has a small chance to penetrate a single layer of battlesuit plate/Milno plate on a very good hit, but will do low actual damage to target (though high rate of fire offsets this somewhat; Death by a thousand cuts). Can take down someone in Milnoplate with a good deal of concentrated fire, but battlesuits are virtually resistant (except when striking vulnerable parts such as joints).

Advantages: high fire rate, cheap ammo, large ammo capacity, slightly better AP than similar low-tier weapons
Disadvantages: high price for low tier weapon, small strength requirement, low damage per shard (fire rate makes up for this).

2.IF Pyro okays it, start producing a few prototypes of whatever version you chose for physical testing with robosods.  Also produce some targets of various sorts for testing on- ballistics gel, robobodies, armor plates- just to make sure the real thing is the same as the VR thing.

Really? Radio is ok with 810 rounds? I know I generally don't check ammo to often but still.

[syvarris]

-.-

Radio is okay with 900 rounds.  I'm reducing the number of shots you'd get from a PSL tank.  The second spoiler is a direct copy paste from the post you made with the modified suggestion- I assumed that you'd already read it and okayed it.

*sigh*  I'll copy paste the same question into this post later.

EDIT: Here ya go.

Here, instead of showing the statsheets to you and letting you figure out the differences, I'll just state them outright.  This obviously assumes that you're fine with the version that you posted yourself.

I wanted to reduce the size of the basic tank which costs one token, by 20 rounds.  I wanted to reduce the size of the large tank by ninety rounds.  This is purely because I aesthetically like this better.

I also wanted to add different firing options: Instead of only fully automatic and 10-round volley, I want to add in a semiautomatic mode, and a 3-round volley.  Lastly, I want to reduce the 10-round volley to a 9-round volley, and the 25 per turn automatic to a 20 per turn automatic.

1.Is all that okay with you?  If not, can we just go with the version Radio made for expediency?  I'm getting really tired of this.

2.Assuming Simus doesn't object, make a few prototypes and confirm that the gun does, in fact, act like it did in VR.  Then start mass-producing the things so that we can ship a few with the first supply run.

3.Look at NAV's 'vibrating penetrator' as you called it in the tinker thread.  The prices you gave him were "3 tokens for 20cm, 5 tokens for 30cm, and 15 for 1m.".  Do you think that mass-production could lower those somewhat?  After all, a monorazor costs 2 tokens and also has use as an effective cutting tool, and a monosword costs five and can cripple a battlesuit- but the five token vibrator can't do jack to a BS, and isn't a good cutting tool.