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Author Topic: Hephaestus No Longer Exists: Crater thread.  (Read 191010 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #405 on: August 06, 2014, 03:13:07 pm »

((Reposting for Pyro, as it's buried in the middle of my post:))
Anton contacts Simus. "XO, Chernozorov here. Our shipbuilding capacity currently consists of a forested park covering a radioactive pit. Permission to take one of our construction crews and start setting up something more elaborate?"
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #406 on: August 06, 2014, 04:36:33 pm »

((Idea for self-sealing: use that expanding foam from the goop thrower, by having lots of very small packets of the stuff under the suit, then at breach they can mix, expand and seal off. Might be expensive though.

Secondly, Devastator and me discussed an idea a while ago in dj chat: take Hammer cannon, add a way for projectile to maneuver (like thrusters or automanips), sensors and targeting computers, and then anti-laser coating. Boom, homing missile going at relativistic speeds. Could make version that sits in space or on an asteroid if needed. Oh, and remember you can use the FTL jump point as a first 'choke point' for defense, though you'll want to check how big that thing is.))

Miyamoto sends a message to ARESTEVE on Hephaestus (and also forwards it to Simus):

"ARESTEVE, I have a research project I need your help with. It will consist of several stages.

Now, the main objective here is to create the next generation of cost-optimized armor, kinda like what battlesuit plate is now. It should strike a balance between defensive capabilities, cost and weight. Battlesuit plate is great and defends against a lot of damage types, but is horribly outdated. Using a combination of existing materials and alien technology that ARM has access to, such as the energy-absorbing sand or that hexagonal material from the planetoid, we can get a more cost-effective solution. ARESTEVE, if you think there are components that are theoretically possible, but would require some R&D first, you can incorporate them as well, and start the necessary research. If any of the alien tech still needs research for reverse engineering, you can begin with that as well. Note that whatever you give me as a result should be producible on Hephaestus, because that's where it'll be fabricated. Once finished, other designers can freely use it to armor their stuff with.

Secondly, I also want you to save the materials/composites that turn out not to have the optimal cost-effectiveness, but that are more potent in their defensive capabilities. Kinda like mythril, but preferably not as excessively expensive. These would used to armor those units where power and weight are more important factors than cost, such as for synthflesh shock troops.

Finally, I'm also looking to create a better version of the civic defenders longcoat. For that, I need a material that is cheap enough to stay in the 3-token range, flexible enough to be worn over a Mk.I or standard robobody, and capable of lowering a mission-ending killing blow to something survivable. It doesn't need to make the wearer completely impervious to small-arms, but should be good enough to be useful, and thus a viable purchase for new recruits. It can be reactive armor if that turns out to work best. It should also defend against multiple damage types, unlike the longcoat that only protects against gauss weapons.

After selecting the various components you think will work best, you can start combining them in different ways. For example, one could either mix the anti-laser sand into the hard material against kinetic penetrators, or use small layers of each on top of each other, or use a fine mesh of both materials like a fabric, or whatever composition works best. There are a lot of possibilities here, so take your time.


Practically, this project will consist of three stages. First, use VR simulation to get a rough idea of what would work best, and to bring the list of options down to a few dozen for each category.
Secondly, all the remaining options will be tested in real life using the automated labs. If research into certain materials needs to be done, such as reverse-engineering that hexagonal material, it should also be done now.
Then, a final selection between the top-scoring options for each of the three categories, for which I want you to present me the top-three options for each category.

ARESTEVE, please tell me if there is anything missing with this plan of action or if you foresee problems. If not, please give me a completion date ((real life days)) for each stage."


Get completion date, do not commit to research yet.

(Pyro, assuming there are no big problems with this approach, would you mind if I commit a SCIENCE! crew?))



Send message to Saint:

Quote
After talking with Steve, it turns out that you guys should try to produce, well, as many sods as you can practically handle. Millions of them. It's gonna be a big war after all, and however many you produce, we'll find a use for them. Be sure to also provide them with all teh equipment they need, each battalion should be a self-contained unit. This includes weapons, gadgets, whatever.

Any further questions?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 05:22:21 am by Radio Controlled »
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Einsteinian Roulette Wiki
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21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

PyroDesu

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #407 on: August 06, 2014, 05:33:24 pm »

((OOC, it's fine. But you should inform Simus IC, not me OOC.

And also, the design I want is something that doesn't have to self-seal. At all (and any sort of self-sealing probably wouldn't work properly anyways, at least in terms of repairing the suit itself so that it can reestablish pressure on the torn area). You could get a hole punched in it, leave it for a whole mission, and mostly likely be perfectly fine, though you'll have a nasty bruise for a while. Again, assuming no actual injury - but still, it shouldn't aggravate wounds too much, especially if the wounded gets medical attention.))
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Pyro is probably some experimental government R&D AI.

Unholy_Pariah

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #408 on: August 06, 2014, 05:42:59 pm »

What if your near a radiation source?

You really dont want a hole in your radiation proof armor.
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Clearly running multiple missions at the same time is a terrible idea.  The epic battle to see which team can cock it up worse has escalated again.

And Larry kinda gets blueballed in all this; just left with a raging bone spear and no where to put it.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #409 on: August 06, 2014, 06:00:49 pm »

((OOC, it's fine. But you should inform Simus IC, not me OOC.

And also, the design I want is something that doesn't have to self-seal. At all (and any sort of self-sealing probably wouldn't work properly anyways, at least in terms of repairing the suit itself so that it can reestablish pressure on the torn area). You could get a hole punched in it, leave it for a whole mission, and mostly likely be perfectly fine, though you'll have a nasty bruise for a while. Again, assuming no actual injury - but still, it shouldn't aggravate wounds too much, especially if the wounded gets medical attention.))

((That's why I added the 'forward message to Simus' bit. but sure, I'll play along.))

As an afterthought, Miyamoto added a bit of text to the ARESTEVE transcript:

"Oh, and in case it takes a long time for ARESTEVE to do it himself, would you mind if I assign a few of those veteran researchers to the project? Or will you need them for anything in the near future?"
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Einsteinian Roulette Wiki
Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

PyroDesu

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #410 on: August 06, 2014, 06:36:16 pm »

What if your near a radiation source?

You really dont want a hole in your radiation proof armor.

((Whoever said that the pressure suit itself was radiation-resistant? Or that methods for sealing one were?

Heck, I'm still wondering how Mk-series suits are supposed to protect you from radiation without having anything that could act like armor. Radiation shielding is pretty dense stuff, and would make at least halfway decent armor. My conclusion is either that they don't really, or the author is an English major. Or, you know, that for most applications they're used in, radiation isn't really an issue.

((That's why I added the 'forward message to Simus' bit. but sure, I'll play along.))

I actually didn't see that.))

That's fine, Miyamoto.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 06:39:11 pm by PyroDesu »
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Pyro is probably some experimental government R&D AI.

Unholy_Pariah

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #411 on: August 06, 2014, 10:17:13 pm »

Obviously its made out of the mesh in microwave doors.
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Clearly running multiple missions at the same time is a terrible idea.  The epic battle to see which team can cock it up worse has escalated again.

And Larry kinda gets blueballed in all this; just left with a raging bone spear and no where to put it.

syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #412 on: August 07, 2014, 12:24:05 pm »

((I know Simus changed Saint's orders, but I'm gonna leave my actions as they are.  Don't feel like typing up my ideas for the unified command system on a phone.  And I have no wifi, so none of my computers can do it.  This is also why I haven't been editting the wiki, FYI.

Anyways, Pyro, I'd assume your MCP suit would include the magic radiation shielding, simply because we already have it, and not using it would be stupid.

And the MK.I does have radiation shielding- during the anomalous planetoid it was needed for the blue light anomaly.))

Saint sends a message back to Miyamoto:
Quote
Yes, just one.  Which is more important: numbers, or contingency?  For every fully flesh sod we produce, we could make ten robotic sods.  If you want any significant number of flesh sods, then you'll be greatly lowering your overall numbers.

Empiricist

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #413 on: August 07, 2014, 03:43:29 pm »

Quote from: C. Leroux > General M. De Bergerac
Are there any locations you wish for the propaganda to target in particular? Or is it blanket?

What incentives can we offer to the individual?
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piecewise

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #414 on: August 08, 2014, 01:22:41 pm »

((The Mk series suits act more like air-pressure suits - you put a hole in it, then entire thing decompresses and the user is dead within 90 seconds. Mechanical counter-pressure suits (yes, like the Space Activity Suits), if torn, won't kill the user - the worst that will happen is heavy bruising around the tear (this assuming that it's just the suit that's damaged, but it can't possibly be worse than air-pressure suits in event of actual injury). Take it from NASA:

Quote from: NASA
A tear or hole in a gas-pressurised[sic] suit would result in a rapid and probably fatal decompression. Tears in a MCP suit would remain a local defect as the elastic weave prevents the tear from propagating. A tear, therefore, would cause symptoms of localised[sic] low pressure exposure at the site of the tear (such as bruising and edema), while the rest of the body remains protected. The severity of these symptoms is quite mild and dissipates within hours/days (depending on exposure time), especially when occurring on a small area.
))

If you can think of a better job for you to be focusing on, Saint, then ask.

And Anton, how would you react if you had invasive surgery performed on you without your consent. Hacking my body isn't terribly different.

How big are the tears they're talking about; also are they assuming the temperature and radiation are normal?

Anton Chernozorov

1. Not as it is. A big fucking engine and the automanips to reduce mass as it reaches relativistic speeds. If you stripped them from other ships, yes. You could probably find what you need floating around in that battlefield up in space. The Blackship's stuff is too small for a large cargo ship. Alternatively, you could just use one of the cruisers out in orbit, once you repair it that is.

2.There are 3-4 ships what are still fairly functional and several wrecks which could be salvaged.

Can we tell if there is enough parts to cobble together a working FTL system for the freighter in the wrecks from here, or will we need a closer survey of them?

Do we have anything spaceworthy at all right now, to go and start survey and salvage ops?


Quote
3. To make one FTL comparable, you'd need that manip/amp creation area. To just make ones like it that aren't FTL usable, you'd need a shipyard. Our last one got blown up,  if you remember.

((Yeah, I planted a forest over it. ^_^))

Anton contacts Simus. "XO, Chernozorov here. Our shipbuilding capacity currently consists of a forested park covering a radioactive pit. Permission to take one of our construction crews and start setting up something more elaborate?"

Look for a spot to place a new shipyard. Look into the possibility of equipping it with a gauss launch rail to reduce the need of boosting up heavy ships.

Quote
4.Gonna have to be more specific about their intended use.  Also, orbital minefields are rather useless except in extremely specific areas. They occasionally use drone fields with automated bomb carrying ships, but those aren't really mines so much as an automated defense system.

((In my mind, there are three stages to planetary defense. Long-range Interdiction, Approach Denial, and Orbital Skirmish.

Long range interdiction is basically artillery. Very long but relatively thin ships, consisting mostly of just one giant primary weapon capable of insanely accurate and insanely destructive fire that can retains effectiveness up to the edge of the solar system. Using power beamed from the planet if necessary. Something like an orbital variant of the Hammer, but longer, self-propelled, and with the benefit of not having to punch through atmosphere.

Approach denial is doing everything to prevent the enemy from establishing orbit. Strategically oriented debris fields with drone ships hiding out in them, minefields, missile carriers, corrosive gas clouds, tiny Suns and mini-blackholes, giant weapons platforms masquerading as natural satellites - any form of massed attack that is too impractical or too destructive to use when the enemy is too near.

Orbital Skirmish is the all-out fighting game when you just need to kill the other guy as quickly and straightforwardly as possible, while minimizing the harm done to the planet. To this end there should be cheap to produce, simply armed ships, that can be built in large numbers and simply overpower the enemy (since armor is almost useless). Destroyers and cruisers of the typical variety, the occasional battleship, and any fast attack craft that can be fielded.))

Summing up: Long, spinal-mount Gauss artillery ships for long range, Missile carriers and remote drone "mines" for medium range, and some typical fighting ships like the ones we commandeered for close range.

Look those up.


edit:
And Anton, how would you react if you had invasive surgery performed on you without your consent. Hacking my body isn't terribly different.

"That was honestly the least invasive thing I could think of. The least invasive thing that would work, at least. It was either that or the old handshake buzzer joke scaled up to the Red Hand, and that would be both more damaging than I wanted, and too close to your synthflesh fists to be safe.

And I do think I made a point there - you and all our robots are vulnerable, if even a myopic code-monkey like me can get through to you. If Saint ever wants a different project to do, you can set him on our software protection. He's pretty good with code.
"
You'd need to do a survey to be sure, but you're 90% certain that there is.
There are plenty of normal shuttles, though we'd need to use some crew to go out there and do the work.

You want to have a mass driver? To launch your ships? Gonna need several miles of flat, unobstructed ground for that. Not to mention a big fat ramp building up from like the 3/4ths point.  As per places to put an ordinary shipyard, you could hypothetically just clear out the impromptu shipyard and some area around it and build the new one there.  Unless we're talking about manufacturing ships of significant size.

Most of what we saw in the battle were the "artillery" type you were talking about. Ships built around their cannons. They vary in exact design but they're all pretty similar, just big guns with the bare minimum of engines, power, control and living space packed in under heavy armor. Missle and mine carriers are basically the same thing; You've got a big fat mothership which isn't much more then a floating production plant that cranks out explosive drones using supplies stored on it or harvested from near by. The drones themselves are just huge, usually nuclear explosives with rocket engines and enough fuel to intercept anything within a certain radius. There are also stationary systems which perform much the same function: laser mines for instance, which are basically free floating laser cannons which attempt to shoot down anything that enters an area.  And in terms of fighters...they really don't have any. All combat is done at such ranges that fighters are generally useless, they just send swarms of unmanned bombs.

"Well, just before you gave me the order to design a suit, I finished a design for a... unconventional conventional weapon.  It's a vastly miniaturized Piezoelectric Shard Launcher, which is startlingly effective.  I'd like you to take a look at it, if you have the time.

As far as better jobs for me... I have various ideas for projects, but it's mostly notes on things to test, which might turn out useful.  I could do as Anton suggested, and work on software useful to ARM- I have several ideas for that.  But I could also work on this suit, or discuss some ideas for changes to the general design.  I just don't have much knowledge in this area, so I'll probably take longer than someone who's already familiar with it."


1.The shard rifle: what is the Str requirement for it?

2.Last minute adjustment to the Testament shard rifle: add " or civilians" to the warning on the barrel.

Explanation: Pyro wants me to use "Mechanical Counter-Pressure" to make a puncture-resistant suit.  From what I understand, the idea is that instead of pressurizing the whole suit, MCP uses tight elastics that squeeze the body to maintain pressure.  It still has a bulky helmet, but the rest of the suit is skin-tight.  Apparently, small tears in the suit only lead to bruising in vaccum.

Sadly, NASA never tested what happens when you shoot an astronaut wearing one in vacuum.  Small holes in the suit itself are fine, but holes in the skin underneath are... probably not good.

3. So I want to look up some past design for an MCP suit.  Preferably, one that actually worked in a vacuum.  Then spawn a guy wearing it into a VR vacuum, and shoot him in the leg with a gauss pistol.  What happens?

4. Assuming he doesn't just die right off, how long does he have to live?  How much time before he's just dead (not perma-dead, normal dead), regardless of treatment?

5. Could we manufacture some form of insulative medi-foam that works in vacuum, that effectively seals suit breaches?

Computer systems:

6. Think for a moment- Is there a good reason for our suit systems being so insecure?  Is Steve able to just prevent any hacking anyways, so security would just get in his way?  Is stuff like Anton's antics possible just for funnies, and it'll never have actual consequences?

7. Are my AUX rolls still counted as auto-successes?  If not, charge an aux bonus.  If so, give our computer systems some protection at least.  Having them able to be hacked with nothing but a radio connection is terrible.  Outside systems shouldn't be able to do anything to it, unless it's specifically okayed by the suit's system.

8. Since this is apparently plauging a few people, and I've started to feel guilty for spamming nine actions a turn, how much time is supposed to be passing between turns?  I assumed months had already elapsed in-game, due to the production orders, but others seem to think we're on the second day at most.


((Y'know, I actually tested this a long time ago.  Back when Saint first joined, he tried to hack Jim.  PW basically said 'No.'))

1. I dunno. I don't see a reason to have one. Doesn't have that big of recoil and isn't terribly heavy.
2. Might also want to add "Don't get in eyes or mouth. For External use only"
 2B: Yeah, that was my thought. It makes sense for pressure differential caused by vacuum, but the heat, radiation, or internal pressure differences could cause problems.
3.I don't know. I didn't know about this in the past and I know only some about it now. Lets ask simus. OI SIMUS.
4.Oh no, This is related to the above.
5.Assuming the person won't just die immediately, yeah, a "repairing spray" seems viable, in theory.
6. Suits are insecure because they were designed to fight enemies that didn't hack. Steve could definitely "Push" a hacking invader out of your system, if you have contact with him. As per it never having actual consequences, I don't like to use absolutes, especially when given assurances that I won't fuck  you over. Gotta leave myself room. To fuck you over.
7.What kinda protection?
8. Undetermined. I was never good at setting how much time passed between turns. Assume months though, in subjective time.
 (If I remember right you were trying to puppet him. I let anton get away with it because it was a prank which just changed simus' eyesight, not tried to control her. And I did that for you and your spine's own protection.)

Sadly, NASA never tested what happens when you shoot an astronaut wearing one in vacuum.  Small holes in the suit itself are fine, but holes in the skin underneath are... probably not good.

((As it seems, I don't think anyone has done research into wounds sustained in vacuum, while the body remains compressed or not. My guess is that you might get a little bit faster exsanguination than normal, maybe some complications as the blood around the site is also decompressed and gives off gases.))

Very well, work on our software. I'll take care of the suits. I'll take a look at that weapon, as well.

Anton, you may use one construction team.


Pull up Saint's weapon and examine it, and test it out against varying UWM-style targets (sods, armored sods, etc.).
We'll assume you get all the info about his already rigorous tests against various targets so I don't have to write it out again.

((Idea for self-sealing: use that expanding foam from the goop thrower, by having lots of very small packets of the stuff under the suit, then at breach they can mix, expand and seal off. Might be expensive though.

Secondly, Devastator and me discussed an idea a while ago in dj chat: take Hammer cannon, add a way for projectile to maneuver (like thrusters or automanips), sensors and targeting computers, and then anti-laser coating. Boom, homing missile going at relativistic speeds. Could make version that sits in space or on an asteroid if needed. Oh, and remember you can use the FTL jump point as a first 'choke point' for defense, though you'll want to check how big that thing is.))

Miyamoto sends a message to ARESTEVE on Hephaestus (and also forwards it to Simus):

"ARESTEVE, I have a research project I need your help with. It will consist of several stages.

Now, the main objective here is to create the next generation of cost-optimized armor, kinda like what battlesuit plate is now. It should strike a balance between defensive capabilities, cost and weight. Battlesuit plate is great and defends against a lot of damage types, but is horribly outdated. Using a combination of existing materials and alien technology that ARM has access to, such as the energy-absorbing sand or that hexagonal material from the planetoid, we can get a more cost-effective solution. ARESTEVE, if you think there are components that are theoretically possible, but would require some R&D first, you can incorporate them as well, and start the necessary research. If any of the alien tech still needs research for reverse engineering, you can begin with that as well. Note that whatever you give me as a result should be producible on Hephaestus, because that's where it'll be fabricated. Once finished, other designers can freely use it to armor their stuff with.

Secondly, I also want you to save the materials/composites that turn out not to have the optimal cost-effectiveness, but that are more potent in their defensive capabilities. Kinda like mythril, but preferably not as excessively expensive. These would used to armor those units where power and weight are more important factors than cost, such as for synthflesh shock troops.

Finally, I'm also looking to create a better version of the civic defenders longcoat. For that, I need a material that is cheap enough to stay in the 3-token range, flexible enough to be worn over a Mk.I or standard robobody, and capable of lowering a mission-ending killing blow to something survivable. It doesn't need to make the wearer completely impervious to small-arms, but should be good enough to be useful, and thus a viable purchase for new recruits. It can be reactive armor if that turns out to work best. It should also defend against multiple damage types, unlike the longcoat that only protects against gauss weapons.

After selecting the various components you think will work best, you can start combining them in different ways. For example, one could either mix the anti-laser sand into the hard material against kinetic penetrators, or use small layers of each on top of each other, or use a fine mesh of both materials like a fabric, or whatever composition works best. There are a lot of possibilities here, so take your time.


Practically, this project will consist of three stages. First, use VR simulation to get a rough idea of what would work best, and to bring the list of options down to a few dozen for each category.
Secondly, all the remaining options will be tested in real life using the automated labs. If research into certain materials needs to be done, such as reverse-engineering that hexagonal material, it should also be done now.
Then, a final selection between the top-scoring options for each of the three categories, for which I want you to present me the top-three options for each category.

ARESTEVE, please tell me if there is anything missing with this plan of action or if you foresee problems. If not, please give me a completion date ((real life days)) for each stage."




Get completion date, do not commit to research yet.

(Pyro, assuming there are no big problems with this approach, would you mind if I commit a SCIENCE! crew?))



Send message to Saint:

Quote
After talking with Steve, it turns out that you guys should try to produce, well, as many sods as you can practically handle. Millions of them. It's gonna be a big war after all, and however many you produce, we'll find a use for them. Be sure to also provide them with all teh equipment they need, each battalion should be a self-contained unit. This includes weapons, gadgets, whatever.

Any further questions?


>The biggest issue is that I do not have access to these materials as anything more then incomplete simulation data at the moment. To get a good idea, I'd need the actual materials to play around with. If you can get me the materials though, I can begin analysis and reverse engineering as you desire.

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #415 on: August 08, 2014, 05:33:20 pm »

Anton Chernozorov

"Okay, this is going to take some people." After a bit of deliberation, Anton opens a channel to Simus. "XO, this is Chernozorov again. I'm planning a little trip to low orbit so we can see exactly what we've got up there, and I need some shuttle pilots and accountants. Do I have to clear that by you, or can I just start rounding people up? Also, I'm plotting out land for the new shipyard over our old salvage yard. Sending preliminary plan to you now. If you want anything changed or added to it, there's no time like the present because I'm giving the construction team their go order."

Communicate with Simus.

VR-create a preliminary design of the FTL-refitted Merchant freighter. Assuming we find all the parts up in orbit, what would be the best way to perform the overhaul? Can one of the still-operational ships be used to carry the parts down, or will the Merchant need to enter orbit itself so we can work on it there? Will I absolutely need a construction crew if I need this done, or will the general "worker" populace suffice?

For the shipyard, I'm thinking we should be able to build at least anything up to light cruisers on the ground, without needing an orbital yard. That's not to say we're not going to build an orbital yard. Does a cruiser count as significant size? How big a ship can we lift off the ground without having antigravity automanipulators anyway? With and without the mass driver?

>> Put the shipyard project into motion with the use of the provided CONSTRUCTION crew. It will be placed where the salvage yard used to be, but make sure any usable remains we had there (an old capsule, some other stuff) are not recycled. See how long the project is estimated to take.

For the mass driver, I actually thought we could save real estate space and some effort by running the whole thing underground, in a massive tunnel, with the slope going up through a particularly convenient (and suitably reinforced) mountain. Bonus of being able to clear the air out and make the initial acceleration easier, plus maybe that we can use an acceleration mechanism that actually encloses the ship on all sides. Will that work? How long of a project would that be, if we were to build it?


((Ships... well, we're going to have to get ourselves a shipyard first, and we don't have the exotic resources to make the automanips necessary for compact artillery weapons. For artillery ships I thought to use literally miles-long ships using conventional Gauss accelerators. Even less than a ship built around a gun, more a crewed gun with maneuvering thrusters. And I know the UWM doesn't use fighters, but that's their problem - a small ship is more often than not a low-priority target when there are bigger fish to shoot. Tiny ships punching way above their weight class, like the Black Death, can be quite an unwelcome thorn in their side. Of course, missiles are still a much better weapon for use en masse, so the fighters should be limited to surgical strikes.))

Look into UWM's history of spaceflight. Has anyone at any point used the idea of integrated ship pilots? A specially conditioned and trained Sod brain in a typical life-support braincase, integrated into a spacecraft instead of a robot body - as a highly skilled and obedient pilot. Analyze the idea, see if there are any flaws in it in regards to potential psychological issues with the brains, or logistical issues like feeding and "what the hell do sentient spacecraft do when off duty?".
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #416 on: August 09, 2014, 09:52:56 am »

Quote
>The biggest issue is that I do not have access to these materials as anything more then incomplete simulation data at the moment. To get a good idea, I'd need the actual materials to play around with. If you can get me the materials though, I can begin analysis and reverse engineering as you desire.

"Where are these materials now, what would be needed to get them to you, and how fast could that be done?

Secondly, could you please give me a star map of the Hephaestus system, including it's stars, planets, moons, asteroid or debris fields and FTL jump location? And how big is that jump point anyways?"


Talk to ARESTEVE, request system map. PW, if you don't want to draw an actual map, just giving the distance from the sun, tilt axis, time to make lap around sun and other such info for the major bodies will do. It's to help with getting an idea of the system.



Quote from: C. Leroux > General M. De Bergerac
Are there any locations you wish for the propaganda to target in particular? Or is it blanket?

What incentives can we offer to the individual?


Quote
Well, I guess you're best of asking steve for exact details, but my guess would be to target those individuals that actually stand to gain anything should the UWM fall. The oppressed majority, so to speak. There's probably quite some worlds were some of the population has it decent enough, and the rich and powerful also stand to lose more than to win, so those are probably not your preferred targets.

As for incentives, I guess it's the usual revolution fanfare of overthrowing tyrants, better living conditions for the common man, more freedom and justice for all, etc. And why they should join ARM, maybe focus on us being the only faction powerful enough to stand up to the UWM, and that we can offer help or protection. United we stand, divided we fall might be a message that sticks. Of course, that works best if we have some high-profile victories to showcase and prove our competence. Maybe you could use the capturing of Hep for that, but again, ask Steve for exact details. Maybe another ARM ship somewhere saved a bus load of puppies.
 



Saint sends a message back to Miyamoto:
Quote
Yes, just one.  Which is more important: numbers, or contingency?  For every fully flesh sod we produce, we could make ten robotic sods.  If you want any significant number of flesh sods, then you'll be greatly lowering your overall numbers.


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Before I answer that, two questions: first, are you sure about that 10 to 1 number? Or is that a figure of speech?

Secondly, have you gotten ARESTEVE to run that risk-cost-benefit analysis I asked for? If he deems it not worthy to keep producing flesh sods as a contingency, then I could consider only keeping a few for, ah, 'personal use'. Call me paranoid all you want, but overspecializing just seems like putting too many eggs in the same explosive basket.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 10:03:51 am by Radio Controlled »
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Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #417 on: August 09, 2014, 03:28:55 pm »

Saint replies to Miyamoto:
Quote
Yes, I am sure.  In fact, if anything, it's a conservative rate- in theory, it would be possible to produce robotic sods fifty percent faster than that if we overworked the fleshpits.

And of course I asked ARESTEVE.  Assuming we set them up correctly, which is simple, they should be completely superior to regular flesh sods.

((Yes, Saint is lying about that last bit.  I never asked ARESTEVE, because I forgot.  Not that Miya knows that.))

1.Ask ARESTEVE what disadvantages flesh sods might have over robosods, and what ratio of robo:flesh would be good, considering cost and risk.  Remember, we can produce ten times as many robots as fleshies.

2.How do flesh sods compare to robosods for use as guerillas?

3.Secure computer systems: Pretty simply, a suit/robobody shouldn't allow outside systems to mess around with anything internal.  No messing with camera feeds, no messing with suit settings, nothing.  The only things an external system should be able to do are things that either the user or a preinstalled program specifically okays.

4.Additionally, everything a suit transmits should be encrypted.  No point in giving the UWM our video feeds.

5.Ask ARESTEVE if it's possible for Steve to change a team's encyption methods before each mission, to prevent the UWM from cracking it once and never needing to again.

6. After I've set up the new security stuff, ask ARESTEVE to use his spare CPU cycles to look at it, and try to hack it.  Once he's found a vulnerability, fix it.  Have him go through a few rounds of that.


((I feel like I should be doing more than I am.  Ugh.  Anything obvious I'm missing?))

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #418 on: August 09, 2014, 04:56:39 pm »

Saint replies to Miyamoto:
Quote
Yes, I am sure.  In fact, if anything, it's a conservative rate- in theory, it would be possible to produce robotic sods fifty percent faster than that if we overworked the fleshpits.

And of course I asked ARESTEVE.  Assuming we set them up correctly, which is simple, they should be completely superior to regular flesh sods.

((Yes, Saint is lying about that last bit.  I never asked ARESTEVE, because I forgot.  Not that Miya knows that.))

1.Ask ARESTEVE what disadvantages flesh sods might have over robosods, and what a good ratio of robo:flesh would be good, considering cost and risk.  Remember, we can produce ten times as many robots as fleshies.

2.Secure computer systems: Pretty simply, a suit/robobody shouldn't allow outside systems to mess around with anything internal.  No messing with camera feeds, no messing with suit settings, nothing.  The only things an external system should be able to do are things that either the user or a preinstalled program specifically okays.

3.Additionally, everything a suit transmits should be encrypted.  No point in giving the UWM our video feeds.

4.Ask ARESTEVE if it's possible for Steve to change a team's encyption methods before each mission, to prevent the UWM from cracking it once and never needing to again.

5. After I've set up the new security stuff, ask ARESTEVE to use his spare CPU cycles to look at it, and try to hack it.  Once he's found a vulnerability, fix it.  Have him go through a few rounds of that.


((I feel like I should be doing more than I am.  Ugh.  Anything obvious I'm missing?))

((Could you link t where pw gave the ten-to-one number? Can't seem to remember where that was.

Quote from: message back
It doesn't matter how much faster we can build the robots, we already agreed to let them make up the bulk of our forces. I just need to know whether we can afford a small decrease in robosods if it means having an extra failsafe. And remember, flesh sods are easier to use for guerrilla forces that don't have a lot of infrastructure or supply lines. Did ARESTEVE account for this in his analysis?

Oh, and would you mind showing me the raw data of that ARESTEVE came up with?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 05:00:09 pm by Radio Controlled »
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Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Let the testing commence.
« Reply #419 on: August 09, 2014, 07:11:16 pm »

Quote from: message back
It doesn't matter how much faster we can build the robots, we already agreed to let them make up the bulk of our forces. I just need to know whether we can afford a small decrease in robosods if it means having an extra failsafe. And remember, flesh sods are easier to use for guerrilla forces that don't have a lot of infrastructure or supply lines. Did ARESTEVE account for this in his analysis?

Oh, and would you mind showing me the raw data of that ARESTEVE came up with?

Quote
Yes, it does matter.  I said we can produce ten robotic sods for every flesh sod.  That is because we can produce them ten times faster, with the same infrastructure.  So, effectively, for every flesh sod you get, you are trading away ten robotic sods.

I do not know how many flesh sods would be needed for an 'extra failsafe'.  Which means I don't know whether ten times that number would be a 'small decrease', so I don't know if it's affordable.  That is why I am asking you, and telling you the time required to make a sod.  I assumed you would know the numbers, which leads back to my original question: are numbers or contingency more important?

I am not sure if ARESTEVE accounted for guerilla effectiveness.  I will ask him.  Although, if I may, I would imagine robotic sods are more effective as long as they aren't cut off from supplies for more than a few years; They are immune to sickness, require little maintenance, can survive with a complete lack of medical supplies and attention, and are barely affected by wounds.  Nutrient packs would be required, but if you're sending in any significant number of sods, a crate of nutrient packs to last a few years should be simple.

Lastly, what do you mean by raw data?  As in the calculations it made?  ARESTEVE didn't give me any- just the answer.  I'll ask him for them.
 
Why do you care, if I may ask?  I thought that was the type of thing you leave to us.  Do you want the rest of the information on production of robotic sods vs. flesh sods as well?

((I'm assuming that our texting is similar to modern texting, and pauses of a few minutes aren't unusual, especially with large texts- that's why my first action was to ask ARESTEVE, in case you pressed more.  IC, Saint would have immediately asked when you mentioned it; If your next text requires it, I'll wait to respond until after PW processes the turn.

Also, here's the post where PW gave the brain growth time (I've been using three days for bookkeeping purposes.  The two day is where I got the 'if we overwork the fleshpits' idea.)  And here's where I got the thirty days per full sod (note that I ordered the sods eight days earlier.  8+22=30.)))
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