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Author Topic: Hephaestus No Longer Exists: Crater thread.  (Read 188145 times)

Nikitian

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1005 on: February 20, 2015, 11:21:30 pm »

((For simplicity's sake, let's say it arrived sometime before the current mission.))
Quote from: MSanctor to Hephaestus team
I have finished updating the Mk-II suit to utilize the new MCP base suit schematics you sent me. It appears more efficient to let users buy the fleshknitter tank upgrade separately, and keep the base suit relatively cheap; it also allows for additional upgrades if you ever feel like expanding upon it.
Cheers for your hard work, people! We are eagerly awaiting new equipment you can design and produce there. I was happy to be of use to you.
#MSanctor

Attached file:
Well then - finalize the suit, and transmit the schematics to Hephaestus for their use!
Spoiler: MCP-II recap (click to show/hide)
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Past Sigs
Nikitian kneels in front of his computer, fresh lamb's blood on his hands, and prays to the dark powers for answers about armor thickness.

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1006 on: February 21, 2015, 01:06:26 pm »

Anton Chernozorov

Well...we got a few versions. One of them uses heavy cooling systems. The other uses Plates which slot in and out, so you can slot in cool plates. That one needs you to eject and put in the plates. That limitation in size isn't helping them.

The limitation in size only applies to the man-portable versions. I'm assuming it will be possible to go bigger?

How heavy is the cooling system? Would it weigh down a Battlesuit? Can the weapon be integrated with the cooling system, and would the resulting device be something a Battlesuit can "wield"?

How many shots/at what power can a single "cool plate" reload take? Can the plates be reused/re-cooled afterwards? How heavy is an individual plate, and how hard are they to store as "ammo" (i.e. when carried by a soldier)?

If the weapon, as it is now, were to be made into a defense installation (firing quad-compressed shots), with i.e. four of them set to fire in sequence, equipped with the heavy active cooling, and put on an armored swiveling heavy turret platform, how large an installation would that make?
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Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1007 on: February 23, 2015, 01:01:14 pm »

((I... I was skipped? ;-; ))

Exoskeletons:

1.Okay, this part's major: You said that the improved exo/endo skeletons will effectively double how powerful our stuff is.  Are you sure that's what you want?

2.If you are sure, how will the various sub-exo stuff work?  Does the new roll system just render them invalid, or can we cut all exoskeleton costs in half?

3.Assuming that they're all just invalid, I'd like to go back on the design that I made for medium armor.  Originally, full milnoplate would just negate the str bonus that exoskeletons gave, but if we're doubling the power of our exoskeletons anyway... Well, I'd like to just straight steal the design.  The penalty doesn't seem so bad now.

Heavy Robotic Body:

4.Okay, since ARESTEVE sees value in both designs, new plan: The standard HRB will have three layers of battlesuit plate, but a variant called "Military Engagement" will be available which uses the special armor layers instead.


UWM military armor:

5.This may or may not be asking too much, but I'd like to ask about what armor types the UWM uses as standard.  I'd really really like to have something like the three most common infantry armor types they use.  Please?  Like, we now have the sharksuit and milnoplate, so what does the UWM use that are equivalent?  What can we expect their soldiers to use in upcoming missions?  Mostly, this is for future weapons testing; I'd rather design stuff that's good enough to penetrate standard armor, but not inefficiently OP.



Unrelated:

6:Possess an auxiliary body and go to Simus' meeting.


((Projects I really want to do at this moment: "silent" 9x39 gauss P90 designed to be super cheap.  "Medium" PSL, smaller than the current one, basically eqivalent in role to an M2.  Also, design new synthflesh aux bodies for myself...  And work on that christmas present.  *sigh*))

7.Also, include the two useful improvments that the new battlesuit uses into the heavy robotic body.  Namely, foot wheels, and plastic eyelids.
1. lets wait to talk about that. I'm still not sure what I'm doing with stats so better not to guess.
2. I dunno. Strength is a particularly annoying thing in ER because stat numbers basically make no sense the majority of the time.
3. Like I said, lets wait.

4.Okie dokie

5.Well, depends on the soldier. Common types ballistic fabrics like the Longcoat and various metal alloys for plate armor. There's some combo ceramic and metal or metal laced with reflective fibers or similar stuff, plus super heavy and dense metals for ship plate. But the majority of UWM stuff is either light  and designed to protect from small arms or just super heavy to protect against anything. Gotta remember, these guys never fought a "real" war against other humans. Put down insurrections and revolutions, sure, but they've never needed to get beyond the idea of "Just load a strong machine up with tons of armor. Thats why all their heavy units are basically just big metal bricks.

6. Ok

7.Alright.

Quote
Sure. Though it might just end up being what Syv made.

What do you mean? Of course we're producing those armors syv designed with Miya's materials, what else? That's why I specified sharksuits and such. So, completion date with 1 crew?

About those 4 worlds: if we established a presence there, could we assume us to be reasonably covered from surprise attacks? I mean, they could always try to use one of the other jump points if they really wanted, but these four are by far more likely to be used, correct?

Secondly, could you explain in some detail how the carbon regeneration of the sharkmist armor works? Where does it get the energy for the conversion, what sources of carbon can and cannot be used, what happens to unusable molecules, when does it stop converting, can it be turned on and off, etc.

Oh, and when you mentioned making full robots of the stuff alone, were you kidding, or is that a thing we could really do?

Quote
We might want to wait for the new roll system to come into play then. Since +1's will mean different things...sort of.
very well, waiting mode engaged.
Never mind, interpreted it wrong. Give it two weeks

If we established a presence on those four worlds, it wouldn't prevent sneak attacks. But it would prevent them from easily establishing a foot hold near a jump point from which to attack us. They could still just bring a fleet through to fight, they just wouldn't have any back up or place to retreat to.

It works not dissimilarity to digestion. Sharkmist is a living thing, remember; weird as hell but living. In general, you need something that has carbon and you need source of energy. Sugars work well. Fats too. Adenosine triphosphate,  Anything with molecules it can break down to release energy. It works sort of like mesk. As per turning it off...as long as it doesn't get the stuff it needs it won't do it, and it will never grow beyond the original state, but you can't really flip a switch and shut it down.

It's possible...but the regeneration process will be more complex and require more materials.

Anton Chernozorov

Well...we got a few versions. One of them uses heavy cooling systems. The other uses Plates which slot in and out, so you can slot in cool plates. That one needs you to eject and put in the plates. That limitation in size isn't helping them.

The limitation in size only applies to the man-portable versions. I'm assuming it will be possible to go bigger?

How heavy is the cooling system? Would it weigh down a Battlesuit? Can the weapon be integrated with the cooling system, and would the resulting device be something a Battlesuit can "wield"?

How many shots/at what power can a single "cool plate" reload take? Can the plates be reused/re-cooled afterwards? How heavy is an individual plate, and how hard are they to store as "ammo" (i.e. when carried by a soldier)?

If the weapon, as it is now, were to be made into a defense installation (firing quad-compressed shots), with i.e. four of them set to fire in sequence, equipped with the heavy active cooling, and put on an armored swiveling heavy turret platform, how large an installation would that make?

Bigger is easier because the real limiting factor is cooling. The plates will survive firings and so will the gun but only if they don't fucking melt from their own heat. And it's hard to keep something that hot cooled when you can't just strap a big fat tank of liquid hydrogen to it.

Back mounted, as it is.

It's designed to be switched out with each shot. They can be reused, but they are pretty heavy. A normal human soldier is gonna be pretty weighed down by them

depends. The actual "Cannon" part will be fairly small, but the cooling systems will be large. A hybrid cooling system of removing the plates automatically and cooling them before cycling them back in would be possible and reduce the cooling system size, but it has a lot of moving parts.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1008 on: February 23, 2015, 04:17:02 pm »

Quote
If we established a presence on those four worlds, it wouldn't prevent sneak attacks. But it would prevent them from easily establishing a foot hold near a jump point from which to attack us. They could still just bring a fleet through to fight, they just wouldn't have any back up or place to retreat to.

However, couldn't we just place a bunch of nukes and lasers at their jump points, preventing them from getting into those systems in the first place (or at least not without paying the cost of whatever we can destroy before the defenses are kaput themselves)? That'd seem like a relatively cheap way of hindering them and buying us time.

Quote
It works not dissimilarity to digestion. Sharkmist is a living thing, remember; weird as hell but living. In general, you need something that has carbon and you need source of energy. Sugars work well. Fats too. Adenosine triphosphate,  Anything with molecules it can break down to release energy. It works sort of like mesk. As per turning it off...as long as it doesn't get the stuff it needs it won't do it, and it will never grow beyond the original state, but you can't really flip a switch and shut it down.

Could it use an external power source to help speed up the process/make it more efficient? And am I correct that the sharkmist expels waste materials during conversion (eg CO2 gas)? Could it extract CO2 from the air to use as a building block given an external power source? Finally, out of, oh I'm just saying something, a well fed 80kg grown human male, how much sharkmist material could be converted, using no external power?

Quote
It's possible...but the regeneration process will be more complex and require more materials.

Out of the following parts a robot might need to operate, which ones could sharkmist (even if heavily altered, or supported by another kind of nanomachines, maybe even the living sand) absolutely not perform, and which ones could it do but not very good:
- general body
- moving parts (aka motors of some kind, could also be for example something to make wheels turn)
- energy source (could be anything, even solar panels of some sort)
- sensors of different kinds
- some way to control it, a brain or computer or something, both in terms of hard- and software needed
- communications (mostly radio signal)


((Zombie robot apocalypse? Zombie robot apocalypse.))
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syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1009 on: February 23, 2015, 10:30:17 pm »

Armor questions:

1.Okay, so I just got an idea.  Would you be averse to an actual armor system, even if it's only a system for testing that doesn't need to be closely followed in missions and such?  See 2&3 for details.

2.The idea is this: we assign 'durability' and 'resistance' numbers to armors, classified by 'kinetic' 'energy' 'laser' etc.  We also give matching numbers to our various guns.  So, a civic defender's longcoat might give 2 kinetic durability, and 0 kinetic resistance.  A gauss rifle would have 2 kinetic damage, and 0 AP ability.  This would mean a CDL would prevent most of the damage from a gauss round, but be destroyed in the process (which is exactly what you've said happens).

3.The reasoning behind this suggestion is just to streamline the process of weapons/armor design.  Instead of designing a gun, giving vauge made-up numbers like 'velocity' or relative strength compared to other things, and then testing it's performance, we can just say "I want to use a gauss round strong enough to do 3 kinetic and 1 AP." and automatically know how effective it is.  It would also make everything WAY easier to balance, because instead of remembering twenty different specific tests, we can directly compare stats between things.


4.Failing that, can I just have the name of the strongest 'light armor' that the UWM uses, as a benchmark for weapons design?

5.Same for a medium armor, meaning the heaviest mostly human-sized armor.  Not a battlesuit.  Protectorate suit?


Actual tinker questions (Because I can't work with weapons nor exoskeleton stuff :p):

6.You know how Radio had his legs chopped off when he got an Avatar?  The Doctor said his nerves were needed?  I'd like to use my Hephaestus admin priviliges to reasearch what Avatar pilot's nerves are used for.

7.During the defense of Hephaestus space battle, one of the warship's automanips was damaged, and it overloaded.  I believe Steve said the overloads get larger on a exponential scale.  Does this apply in reverse, I.E. does a tiny manip have a far smaller overload relative to what you'd expect it to have?

8.What is the minimum size we can make an automanip?

9.Pretty sure I know the answer, but asking just to make sure: Our suits, robobodies, and all our other computerized equipment are all shielded from EMPs, right?

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1010 on: February 24, 2015, 12:53:05 pm »

Anton Chernozorov

So... am I right in assuming that further research is unlikely to result in significant improvement? Without some kind of automanipulator to keep the assembly cold, there probably isn't anything else the science team can do.

Assuming that, let's start on hypothetical weapons.

First.
Self-sufficient battlesuit weapon - this is with integrated cooling system, and regular charge system. Usable as anything from a regular HEP up through quad-compressed shots, with no ammo involved. Being a HEP in principle, the maximum fire rate is still once a minute. Correct?

Second. Heavy infantry weapon - with exchangeable coldplates. Some silly high number as a strength requirement, basically requires a full-power exoskeleton to wield. Still same slow fire rate, plus limited amount of compressed shots available. Regular HEP-like shots can still be fired without using coldplates. Correct?

Third. Semi-ammo-based battlesuit weapon. Basically same as the above, but a more integrated unit without a backpack attachment, that coldplates can be loaded into like regular clips. Does that work? How expensive would a coldplate be?

Fourth. Hypothetical. How large a Bluerad cell would be needed to power a HEP shot? Would a cell like that fit on the rim of a coldplate, so that the cell and the plate can be "reloaded" as one unit? If that is possible, would that allow the weapon to fire anytime it is loaded, i.e. once every two turns (fire-reload-fire-reload)?
How much cheaper can the resulting weapon be made? How much lighter? Removing the regular HEP power supply, removing the adjustable mechanism (fixing it at "3/4 compression"), basically making it a weapon that can only fire the quad-compressed HEP beam, once per reload. Would it result in a weapon that can be in any reasonable way wielded by an un-augmented Sod?

And finally, Anton is unlikely to go for it, but for purely academical purposes - there is an automanip that can maintain a given area at a constant temperature. Would using it effectively remove the overheating problem for the weapon, or would it cause interference? How large would such an automanip be, and how difficult to power?
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"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1011 on: February 25, 2015, 04:17:22 pm »

Quote
If we established a presence on those four worlds, it wouldn't prevent sneak attacks. But it would prevent them from easily establishing a foot hold near a jump point from which to attack us. They could still just bring a fleet through to fight, they just wouldn't have any back up or place to retreat to.

However, couldn't we just place a bunch of nukes and lasers at their jump points, preventing them from getting into those systems in the first place (or at least not without paying the cost of whatever we can destroy before the defenses are kaput themselves)? That'd seem like a relatively cheap way of hindering them and buying us time.

Quote
It works not dissimilarity to digestion. Sharkmist is a living thing, remember; weird as hell but living. In general, you need something that has carbon and you need source of energy. Sugars work well. Fats too. Adenosine triphosphate,  Anything with molecules it can break down to release energy. It works sort of like mesk. As per turning it off...as long as it doesn't get the stuff it needs it won't do it, and it will never grow beyond the original state, but you can't really flip a switch and shut it down.

Could it use an external power source to help speed up the process/make it more efficient? And am I correct that the sharkmist expels waste materials during conversion (eg CO2 gas)? Could it extract CO2 from the air to use as a building block given an external power source? Finally, out of, oh I'm just saying something, a well fed 80kg grown human male, how much sharkmist material could be converted, using no external power?

Quote
It's possible...but the regeneration process will be more complex and require more materials.

Out of the following parts a robot might need to operate, which ones could sharkmist (even if heavily altered, or supported by another kind of nanomachines, maybe even the living sand) absolutely not perform, and which ones could it do but not very good:
- general body
- moving parts (aka motors of some kind, could also be for example something to make wheels turn)
- energy source (could be anything, even solar panels of some sort)
- sensors of different kinds
- some way to control it, a brain or computer or something, both in terms of hard- and software needed
- communications (mostly radio signal)


((Zombie robot apocalypse? Zombie robot apocalypse.))


1. That would certainly work on at least slowing them.

2. Well, I don't know if we could just feed electricity into them or something, but a big gallon jug of sugars would work.  It expels some gas and solid matter, but it is pretty minimal. Not in the form it currently has; it eats solid matter and can't process gas into carbon for itself. They probably designed it like that so it could be used on worlds without atmospheres. Pretty good amount. I'm not sure how much carbon you got in an 80Kg man once you strip away all that hydrogen and oxygen. I'd also assume the sharkmist might not digest different things with the same efficiency. But it would be pretty efficient. I just lack the numbers to say how efficient.

3. General body it could do just fine.
Moving parts too.
Energy source it couldn't.
Sensors it...could but probably not well
Could do control system and communications.

So it would need some sort of powersource not made of sharkmist, but it could run with the rest.

Armor questions:

1.Okay, so I just got an idea.  Would you be averse to an actual armor system, even if it's only a system for testing that doesn't need to be closely followed in missions and such?  See 2&3 for details.

2.The idea is this: we assign 'durability' and 'resistance' numbers to armors, classified by 'kinetic' 'energy' 'laser' etc.  We also give matching numbers to our various guns.  So, a civic defender's longcoat might give 2 kinetic durability, and 0 kinetic resistance.  A gauss rifle would have 2 kinetic damage, and 0 AP ability.  This would mean a CDL would prevent most of the damage from a gauss round, but be destroyed in the process (which is exactly what you've said happens).

3.The reasoning behind this suggestion is just to streamline the process of weapons/armor design.  Instead of designing a gun, giving vauge made-up numbers like 'velocity' or relative strength compared to other things, and then testing it's performance, we can just say "I want to use a gauss round strong enough to do 3 kinetic and 1 AP." and automatically know how effective it is.  It would also make everything WAY easier to balance, because instead of remembering twenty different specific tests, we can directly compare stats between things.


4.Failing that, can I just have the name of the strongest 'light armor' that the UWM uses, as a benchmark for weapons design?

5.Same for a medium armor, meaning the heaviest mostly human-sized armor.  Not a battlesuit.  Protectorate suit?


Actual tinker questions (Because I can't work with weapons nor exoskeleton stuff :p):

6.You know how Radio had his legs chopped off when he got an Avatar?  The Doctor said his nerves were needed?  I'd like to use my Hephaestus admin priviliges to reasearch what Avatar pilot's nerves are used for.

7.During the defense of Hephaestus space battle, one of the warship's automanips was damaged, and it overloaded.  I believe Steve said the overloads get larger on a exponential scale.  Does this apply in reverse, I.E. does a tiny manip have a far smaller overload relative to what you'd expect it to have?

8.What is the minimum size we can make an automanip?

9.Pretty sure I know the answer, but asking just to make sure: Our suits, robobodies, and all our other computerized equipment are all shielded from EMPs, right?
Adverse? No. Would it be followed? Probably not. I mean, we got all those range modifiers on weapons that I pay basically zero heed to.  And I feel like a system that exists here and then behaves completely differently in the rest of the game because of my blundering is a poor idea.

Light armor for standard infantry or just in general? Because there are some really good light armors, but they're gonna be really expensive so you'll rarely encounter them.

Same problem there. You want the standard or the exception?

6. Better connection to the Avatar mostly. We could have just stuck his brain in a jar, but Avatars work better if the pilot is more human then not.

7. Yes, but there's a minimum size.

8. Depends on what you want it to do. Theoretically we could make them exceedingly tiny. Maybe a gram or two each. But they'd be uselessly weak and limited.

9.To a degree.

Anton Chernozorov

So... am I right in assuming that further research is unlikely to result in significant improvement? Without some kind of automanipulator to keep the assembly cold, there probably isn't anything else the science team can do.

Assuming that, let's start on hypothetical weapons.

First.
Self-sufficient battlesuit weapon - this is with integrated cooling system, and regular charge system. Usable as anything from a regular HEP up through quad-compressed shots, with no ammo involved. Being a HEP in principle, the maximum fire rate is still once a minute. Correct?

Second. Heavy infantry weapon - with exchangeable coldplates. Some silly high number as a strength requirement, basically requires a full-power exoskeleton to wield. Still same slow fire rate, plus limited amount of compressed shots available. Regular HEP-like shots can still be fired without using coldplates. Correct?

Third. Semi-ammo-based battlesuit weapon. Basically same as the above, but a more integrated unit without a backpack attachment, that coldplates can be loaded into like regular clips. Does that work? How expensive would a coldplate be?

Fourth. Hypothetical. How large a Bluerad cell would be needed to power a HEP shot? Would a cell like that fit on the rim of a coldplate, so that the cell and the plate can be "reloaded" as one unit? If that is possible, would that allow the weapon to fire anytime it is loaded, i.e. once every two turns (fire-reload-fire-reload)?
How much cheaper can the resulting weapon be made? How much lighter? Removing the regular HEP power supply, removing the adjustable mechanism (fixing it at "3/4 compression"), basically making it a weapon that can only fire the quad-compressed HEP beam, once per reload. Would it result in a weapon that can be in any reasonable way wielded by an un-augmented Sod?

And finally, Anton is unlikely to go for it, but for purely academical purposes - there is an automanip that can maintain a given area at a constant temperature. Would using it effectively remove the overheating problem for the weapon, or would it cause interference? How large would such an automanip be, and how difficult to power?
With the materials we have, probably not.

Yes. Though "No ammo" is a bit of a misnomer for depending on the cooling system. That thank of cold stuff has to be switched out eventually.

Yes, the plates only come into use for compression.

Semi-auto would be limited by the firing time of the HEP more then the plates.

Powering a hep isn't possible, but producing hep like effects? Not sure.

I'm not sure...not sure what it would do when you force the plates from heating up. Might reflect super well and not overheat. Might cause them to lose reflectivity and kill the machine. Don't know.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1012 on: February 25, 2015, 05:06:16 pm »

Quote
Pretty good amount. I'm not sure how much carbon you got in an 80Kg man once you strip away all that hydrogen and oxygen. I'd also assume the sharkmist might not digest different things with the same efficiency. But it would be pretty efficient. I just lack the numbers to say how efficient

I understand, using numbers for this and coming out believable is difficult. I'm more searching for an order of magnitude than a hard number. To produce a single sharkmistbot size of a regular human adult, how many regular flesh people would it need to convert? About one or two, a schoolbus worth, a stadium worth? Very rough estimates will do, if you could.


As for powersource: could bluerad shards be used to power them? If you need to go from electricity to biologically usable fuel, one can use electricity to do electrolysis of water (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water), giving O2 and H2, after which these two can be used again to power metabolism (there are bacteria that use H2: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_metabolism#Hydrogen_oxidation).
 
Would this work?

Finally, could it just eat some extra biomass and convert that into reserve energy (like how humans store glucagon and fats and such) for later use?


« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 05:07:49 pm by Radio Controlled »
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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1013 on: February 25, 2015, 05:27:55 pm »

((Useful note for Radio: Wikipedia say the human body is about 18.5% carbon by mass.  So, with perfect efficiency, an 80kg human would yield 14.8 kg of carbon.  Rounding up, you need six people to make one carbon bot.

Why not use all that spare oxygen and hydrogen as a power source?  It's not like you're using it already.  Also, why are you asking about carbon from people?  Why not carbon from the environment?))

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1014 on: February 27, 2015, 07:23:30 am »

Anton Chernozorov

With the materials we have, probably not.
Thought so. What of the light/heat/energy-eating hexsand material though? Or would the coldplates use that? Could a layer of hexsand armor be used to make a sort of an "integrated cooling system" that disperses the heat from the weapon across the whole body of, i.e., a battlesuit? (assuming the weapon itself is also integrated, of course)

Quote
Yes. Though "No ammo" is a bit of a misnomer for depending on the cooling system. That thank of cold stuff has to be switched out eventually.
Well, it's "no ammo" in the same sense as a generator is infinite. It's functionally unlimited unless it has to be used for a very long time without maintenance/resupply.

Quote
Semi-auto would be limited by the firing time of the HEP more then the plates.
"Semi-ammo-dependant" was what I said. :P As in, using ammo but still usable as a weapon without it. But yeah, semi-auto would have been neat, if it weren't for that unfortunate quality of the HEP.

Quote
Powering a hep isn't possible, but producing hep like effects? Not sure.
I seem to remember accelerating a HEP's charge cycle being possible, but alright. These things change. :P So, I'm guessing more research is needed on that front. Probably after Anton does (or perhaps even succeeds in) his experiment, so he has some extra knowledge to build on.

Quote
I'm not sure...not sure what it would do when you force the plates from heating up. Might reflect super well and not overheat. Might cause them to lose reflectivity and kill the machine. Don't know.
"Don't know whether it is possible", or "don't know whether it should be allowed"? :P Can the now-free science team be set on finding that out? Do we even have a temperature-hold automanip anywhere on Heph? Can we order one sent in if we don't?

And finally, can the Council help stat up the Battlesuit-usable "Zarya" Piercing Energy Weapon, as we've come to call it? The coldplate-using version.
So far all I know is that it's large and heavy, and can punch a hole in a battlesuit. Exactly how large and heavy? How expensive?

Starting point for cost is the HEP at 9 token, but the weapon is far more powerful, if far less portable and requiring ammo. Something like the PSL perhaps, 13 token?
How much would coldplates cost? Given how much ammo of the competition costs, perhaps a token per plate could work? How much would they cost to re-cool?
For mass and size - if the whole weapon was made into a single unit (i.e. no backpack attachment), and extra coldplates disregarded, how much would it weigh down/inconvenience a battlesuit?
Questions.
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syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1015 on: February 27, 2015, 08:15:18 am »

Armor system

1.Okay... When I said that it "doesn't need to be closely followed", I meant more along the lines of "I wouldn't expect you to check the numbers every time a weapon is fired".  I'd still expect you to hold to a weapon's performance against armor, at least to a similar extent that you already would.  The only practical difference between the number system, and the old system, is that the number system would have a one to three questions which settle performance against anything, and the old system requires asking a question for performance against every single armor type.  Or, just having the tinkerer write the performances themselves, which seems worse.

2....It occurs to me that this might be foolish, simply on the basis that you probably don't remember the performance of any tinkered weapon against certain armors, huh?

3.Does the coucil have any opinions?  Or any other tinkerers/Hephaestians?  This is kinda an idea out of the blue, which I came up with two minutes before posting, so I'm not really sure if it's entirely stupid.


UWM Armors:

4.I want the strongest 'standard' infantry armors, in the categories of light and medium armor.  Things we're likely to come up against, not something like mythril full plate.  Something that we can use as a baseline for weapons testing, so that we know our weapons are capable of dealing with the armor we're likely to encounter.


Avatar nerves:

5.Why does using an Avatar pilot's nerves help the connection?  IIRC, humanflesh is rejected by synthflesh and vice-versa, so only electronic connections exist.  If it's because the pilot is more human, does that mean 'humanity' is based on nervous tissue mass, rather than general body mass?  Why must the legs be chopped off?  Are nerve nodes less effective than whatever the Avatar uses?


Tiny Automanip:

6.So, the tiniest automanip we can make is a gram.  Before, you've said that overloads get larger on an exoponential scale, but there's a minimum size.  What is said minimum size, by any form of measurement?

7.Were we to intentionally make automanip overload bombs, would it be cost efficient to power them with gram AMs?  Or are AMs so tiny not really very cheap?


((I was gonna mess with sod brain stuff, but this post is already too wide in scope.  :\ ))

piecewise

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1016 on: February 27, 2015, 12:38:37 pm »

Quote
Pretty good amount. I'm not sure how much carbon you got in an 80Kg man once you strip away all that hydrogen and oxygen. I'd also assume the sharkmist might not digest different things with the same efficiency. But it would be pretty efficient. I just lack the numbers to say how efficient

I understand, using numbers for this and coming out believable is difficult. I'm more searching for an order of magnitude than a hard number. To produce a single sharkmistbot size of a regular human adult, how many regular flesh people would it need to convert? About one or two, a schoolbus worth, a stadium worth? Very rough estimates will do, if you could.


As for powersource: could bluerad shards be used to power them? If you need to go from electricity to biologically usable fuel, one can use electricity to do electrolysis of water (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water), giving O2 and H2, after which these two can be used again to power metabolism (there are bacteria that use H2: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_metabolism#Hydrogen_oxidation).
 
Would this work?

Finally, could it just eat some extra biomass and convert that into reserve energy (like how humans store glucagon and fats and such) for later use?



Judging from numbers in other places, like 10-12. But thats for the whole bot to regenerate from scratch. Healing itself will be less.

Blue rad cells might work...but the process would be a bit more complex then just using them to create O and H. At least in the Mist's current form. The mist we use is a neutered form of the original, which could power itself much more easily and eat basically anything.  We limited it to prevent Gray Goo.

Yes.

Anton Chernozorov

With the materials we have, probably not.
Thought so. What of the light/heat/energy-eating hexsand material though? Or would the coldplates use that? Could a layer of hexsand armor be used to make a sort of an "integrated cooling system" that disperses the heat from the weapon across the whole body of, i.e., a battlesuit? (assuming the weapon itself is also integrated, of course)

Quote
Yes. Though "No ammo" is a bit of a misnomer for depending on the cooling system. That thank of cold stuff has to be switched out eventually.
Well, it's "no ammo" in the same sense as a generator is infinite. It's functionally unlimited unless it has to be used for a very long time without maintenance/resupply.

Quote
Semi-auto would be limited by the firing time of the HEP more then the plates.
"Semi-ammo-dependant" was what I said. :P As in, using ammo but still usable as a weapon without it. But yeah, semi-auto would have been neat, if it weren't for that unfortunate quality of the HEP.

Quote
Powering a hep isn't possible, but producing hep like effects? Not sure.
I seem to remember accelerating a HEP's charge cycle being possible, but alright. These things change. :P So, I'm guessing more research is needed on that front. Probably after Anton does (or perhaps even succeeds in) his experiment, so he has some extra knowledge to build on.

Quote
I'm not sure...not sure what it would do when you force the plates from heating up. Might reflect super well and not overheat. Might cause them to lose reflectivity and kill the machine. Don't know.
"Don't know whether it is possible", or "don't know whether it should be allowed"? :P Can the now-free science team be set on finding that out? Do we even have a temperature-hold automanip anywhere on Heph? Can we order one sent in if we don't?

And finally, can the Council help stat up the Battlesuit-usable "Zarya" Piercing Energy Weapon, as we've come to call it? The coldplate-using version.
So far all I know is that it's large and heavy, and can punch a hole in a battlesuit. Exactly how large and heavy? How expensive?

Starting point for cost is the HEP at 9 token, but the weapon is far more powerful, if far less portable and requiring ammo. Something like the PSL perhaps, 13 token?
How much would coldplates cost? Given how much ammo of the competition costs, perhaps a token per plate could work? How much would they cost to re-cool?
For mass and size - if the whole weapon was made into a single unit (i.e. no backpack attachment), and extra coldplates disregarded, how much would it weigh down/inconvenience a battlesuit?
Questions.
The cold plates already use hex material because it reflects energy rather then absorbing it. If we use hexsand then it will narrow the beam but not strengthen it because the hexsand will just eat the energy.

The council has told me they think it's too early for them to stat up the thing. Too many questions. Talk to radio.

Armor system

1.Okay... When I said that it "doesn't need to be closely followed", I meant more along the lines of "I wouldn't expect you to check the numbers every time a weapon is fired".  I'd still expect you to hold to a weapon's performance against armor, at least to a similar extent that you already would.  The only practical difference between the number system, and the old system, is that the number system would have a one to three questions which settle performance against anything, and the old system requires asking a question for performance against every single armor type.  Or, just having the tinkerer write the performances themselves, which seems worse.

2....It occurs to me that this might be foolish, simply on the basis that you probably don't remember the performance of any tinkered weapon against certain armors, huh?

3.Does the coucil have any opinions?  Or any other tinkerers/Hephaestians?  This is kinda an idea out of the blue, which I came up with two minutes before posting, so I'm not really sure if it's entirely stupid.


UWM Armors:

4.I want the strongest 'standard' infantry armors, in the categories of light and medium armor.  Things we're likely to come up against, not something like mythril full plate.  Something that we can use as a baseline for weapons testing, so that we know our weapons are capable of dealing with the armor we're likely to encounter.


Avatar nerves:

5.Why does using an Avatar pilot's nerves help the connection?  IIRC, humanflesh is rejected by synthflesh and vice-versa, so only electronic connections exist.  If it's because the pilot is more human, does that mean 'humanity' is based on nervous tissue mass, rather than general body mass?  Why must the legs be chopped off?  Are nerve nodes less effective than whatever the Avatar uses?


Tiny Automanip:

6.So, the tiniest automanip we can make is a gram.  Before, you've said that overloads get larger on an exoponential scale, but there's a minimum size.  What is said minimum size, by any form of measurement?

7.Were we to intentionally make automanip overload bombs, would it be cost efficient to power them with gram AMs?  Or are AMs so tiny not really very cheap?


((I was gonna mess with sod brain stuff, but this post is already too wide in scope.  :\ ))

1-2: I'll remember the general gist but a lot of the numbers and shit I'm giving as to depth of penetration and such I'm not gonna remember exactly, no. This is why I really don't like giving lots of numbers because in the end they're gonna end up mostly meaningless. Well, not meaningless, but the difference between 4 inches of penetration and 6 inches isn't really gonna matter. I just don't want to create a big complex system of simulation if only because it would probably be really annoying to players when their weapons don't behave exactly the same as they did in testing because piecewise forgot the numbers for that particular gun. And considering the speed of things and the length of missions and such, it could be months till the weapons see actual use, so thats just dooming me even more.

5. Well, you need a certain density of nerve connections for the connectors to be useful, but like I was saying, it's not so much about connecting human nerves to synth ones (Which we don't) but about maintaining as much flesh as we can while also getting direct connections to the nerves (and fitting the person in the pod. Not a lot of legroom in there)

6. In case you're hoping to use these things as a grenade, It's probably not worth it. The minimum overload size is still pretty big, but like I said, it's exponential. This means it reduces exponentially as well. So your gram manips are gonna have 10 foot circumference overloads or something tiny like that.

7. Price depends on a lot of things, but you could probably make them...Actually I don't know. Making them that tiny might actually be harder.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1017 on: March 01, 2015, 07:20:53 am »

((For when you start updating these again.))

Quote
Blue rad cells might work...but the process would be a bit more complex then just using them to create O and H. At least in the Mist's current form. The mist we use is a neutered form of the original, which could power itself much more easily and eat basically anything.  We limited it to prevent Gray Goo.

Yeah, having good and reliable control over them is more important than raw potency. Still, in it's current (or slightly altered form) we could use bluerad cells (or another energy source). Could you perhaps give an idea as to why/how it'd be more complex? Do you want me to come up with an alternative way, or can we handwave it and say it works? Or do you have a better idea?

Secondly, once sharkmist is programmed to go for a certain form, can it still change form? Say you have a humanoid sharkmistbot, could that thing still reconfigure itself into a dog-shaped form of about equal mass? Or into a working motorcycle of sorts? And if it could theoretically do it, what would be required, in terms of commands it needs to get and energy it needs?

Finally, could the sharkmist produce ranged weapons somehow? Like how Milno's sharkmist symbiont can form a working rocket rifle.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 08:44:46 am by Radio Controlled »
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AoshimaMichio

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1018 on: March 01, 2015, 08:01:06 am »

Like how Milno's sharkmist symbiont can form a working rocket rifle.
((It's not Milno's symbiont that does the weapon thing, but his Mechanist alien polygon glove he got from AM.))
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #1019 on: March 01, 2015, 08:04:34 am »

Like how Milno's sharkmist symbiont can form a working rocket rifle.
((It's not Milno's symbiont that does the weapon thing, but his Mechanist alien polygon glove he got from AM.))

((Fixed, thanks.))
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Einsteinian Roulette Wiki
Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.
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