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Total Members Voted: 86

[Dirst]

It looks like someone has managed to build GavJ's wrapper in DFHack.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754

[Raptomex]

I always use a tileset. I like the visuals. It helps with atmosphere as well, at least to me. But more importantly, over time the default graphics hurt my eyes.

[HavingPhun]

When I first started playing I could not stand the default ascii graphics and used a tileset. Strangely enough after playing for a few years I now don't mind the default graphics at all.

[mickhah]

it's the most stupid thing to try to convince someone that X is better than Y. it's like telling that сhristianity is better than islam (where both is shit, like every global religion). people like to play with tilesets. but no! there's always someone who thinks, it's blasphemy. everyone should play ascii version! everyone should be like him! ein volk! ein reich! only ascii! for the emperor!

[Taffer]

It's probably not worth it. Let people decide for themselves, and play whatever version they prefer. Speaking for myself, the only reason I enjoy "ASCII" is because I think I've made it reasonably attractive, and because (for me) it's really the only option, as the various graphical limitations bother me.

Contrast to Nethack for example, which I also love playing. I use DragonDePlatino's graphics set for Nethack, which is absolutely wonderful, and I wouldn't want to play that game in "ASCII".

In other words, to some extent I prefer "ASCII" because I dislike glitches and tile reuse. I suspect I'm not alone.

[morderkaine]

I first started learning about DF by reading Boatmurdered.
Using the descriptions in the writing, I was able to puzzle out the screen shots and understand what I was seeing, but it was hard, and in my mind, ugly.
When I started playing I went right to tilesets using the LNP. I found there to be a world of different, everything looks like what it should, and the few cases where they dont or an image is reused I only have to learn a small number of 'conversions' instead of a huge number if I used ASCII. I have also used a few different ones and while a few things change (mostly what various rock/gem/ore tiles look like) its pretty easy to know what doing on with any of them.
Plus if I show off my fortress to a friend, I dont have to explain what every single symbol is, it is so much more intuitive for first time viewers. I would hate to try and show an ASCII fort to a complete newbie as opposed to a tileset.

What I really wish would happen to solve this once and for all, is for Toady to select a tileset to make official as the default (and not have ASCII as the default), or to have one made that uses elements of the most popular (with some back end work that fixes the current limitations) however I doubt he would want to even start on that before essentially everything else is done.

I see no reason to promote ASCII use, I personally dont like the general standard of all screen shots be in ASCII, though the concept of a standard is a good one.

[Skuggen]

I vastly prefer playing with a graphical tileset, and just get really annoyed if people say that's somehow the wrong way to play it.

I don't really see a problem with trying to promote the default tileset, though. Just try to focus on why you like it rather than why you dislike the others.

[doublestrafe]

In no way do I feel that a graphical tileset is the wrong way to play it. I do, however, feel that there is a wrong way to post screenshots of it, because there is one and only one set of images that has an entire wiki explaining what each symbol means. If the discussion were about a program developed in French but a bunch of German users had a third-party patch to translate it into German, and kept posting questions and screenshots from the German version and expecting to be understood...well, you see where I'm going.

Personally I think of the ASCII as "not-graphics," which isn't entirely accurate but feels right. Since any graphical tileset is by necessity tiny and pixelly, that falls under the category of "sucky graphics," which is therefore a downgrade. But that's just my opinion and has nothing to do with the call for clarity in communication in the forum.

[GavJ]

What I really wish would happen to solve this once and for all, is for Toady to select a tileset to make official as the default (and not have ASCII as the default), or to have one made that uses elements of the most popular

1) This makes more work for Toady, since he has to ensure a new graphic before releasing any new feature that uses a tile.
2) This makes it harder for Toady to have surprise features, since he needs to alert artists about what they need to draw ahead of time.
3) Most importantly of all, this makes Toady reliant on others's consistency to get out releases, which he is historically almost NEVER willing to be. And rightfully so. Especially here, the original artist (or somebody good enough to spoof the style) would need to still be around for every release, which is very risky.
4) This assumes graphical tilesets are better even ignoring issues #1-3, which is not a foregone conclusion, but rather a contended opinion (despite being slightly more palatable to many newbies, they are, in MY opinion for example, much less imaginative than ASCII, which is a major flaw).

[Dirst]

What I really wish would happen to solve this once and for all, is for Toady to select a tileset to make official as the default (and not have ASCII as the default), or to have one made that uses elements of the most popular

1) This makes more work for Toady, since he has to ensure a new graphic before releasing any new feature that uses a tile.
2) This makes it harder for Toady to have surprise features, since he needs to alert artists about what they need to draw ahead of time.
3) Most importantly of all, this makes Toady reliant on others's consistency to get out releases, which he is historically almost NEVER willing to be. And rightfully so. Especially here, the original artist (or somebody good enough to spoof the style) would need to still be around for every release, which is very risky.
4) This assumes graphical tilesets are better even ignoring issues #1-3, which is not a foregone conclusion, but rather a contended opinion (despite being slightly more palatable to many newbies, they are, in MY opinion for example, much less imaginative than ASCII, which is a major flaw).

Actually the main purpose can be accomplished by expanding graphics_*.txt files to arbitrary object tokens.  This would require a nontrivial, but one-time, effort by Toady.  The default graphics set is then a sheet of ASCII with tokens pointing all of the current definitions at the correct cells, probably leaving in place the default character-based system for backward compatibility.  Modders can take it from there.

[Erkki]

I cant stand the non-square default graphics... They distort the distances and areas and are very counterintuitive IMHO. And playing DF long times on a large screen can be tiring to ones eyes. Personally I already spend the working day looking at a screen mostly and definitely am not going to look at even more flashing high-contrast stuff on a black background just because some purist thinks its the only way the game should be played.

Whatever it is that is the default in LNP is my favorite tileset, but I still need to find an easier to read font for all the texts.

[Necrisha]

The biggest, and main advantage ACSII has over tile-sets is that they are infinitely scalable. Doesn't sound like much to you, but there is no graphics pack small enough that doesn't look like a bunch of mud when scaled down to the same settings I have to use, to fit a decent amount of images on my 8.9 inch screen. You can scale up graphics just fine, but at a certain point less detail is better.

Granted that's such a rare case as almost nobody uses a netbook these days. As for non square, it amuses me to no end, knowing I can immortalize my start location as the default ACSII is identical to a knitting pattern...

[GavJ]

Actually the main purpose can be accomplished by expanding graphics_*.txt files to arbitrary object tokens.  This would require a nontrivial, but one-time, effort by Toady.  The default graphics set is then a sheet of ASCII with tokens pointing all of the current definitions at the correct cells, probably leaving in place the default character-based system for backward compatibility.  Modders can take it from there.

Yeah, that would be great!

Except what you just described is also not what the guy said who I was responding to... He said specifically a non-ASCII, default official tileset, which is what all of those points are addressing.

[Dirst]

Actually the main purpose can be accomplished by expanding graphics_*.txt files to arbitrary object tokens.  This would require a nontrivial, but one-time, effort by Toady.  The default graphics set is then a sheet of ASCII with tokens pointing all of the current definitions at the correct cells, probably leaving in place the default character-based system for backward compatibility.  Modders can take it from there.

Yeah, that would be great!

Except what you just described is also not what the guy said who I was responding to... He said specifically a non-ASCII, default official tileset, which is what all of those points are addressing.

Well, there will be such a thing.  Around version 0.98 or so.

I'm looking forward to seeing the dwarves with close-set bulging eyes, detached earlobes and double-braided beards when using some uncomfortable level of zooming in.

[Graknorke]

Personally I already spend the working day looking at a screen mostly and definitely am not going to look at even more flashing high-contrast stuff on a black background just because some purist thinks its the only way the game should be played.

You want a purist? Look at morderkaine only a few posts above you. Arguing for the absolute superiority of graphical tilesets and that the way to 'solve this' is to make a graphical tileset default.