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27 (31.4%)

No

59 (68.6%)

Total Members Voted: 86

[GavJ]

If you want to write a treatise, I would aim it more at "POST SCREENSHOTS using a default pack." more so than "PLAY with a default pack."

Who cares what somebody else plays with? Obviously, all the people using non-default saw what default looked like at some point, and decided they didn't like it as much. They're adults, they know what they like.

But for posting images, default is actually more of a "right" choice, for people to know what the hell's going on in them. It would also be helpful if there were a utility that briefly switched to default for purposes of screenshots. Is there such a utility? If not, perhaps making one or convincing somebody else to make one would be a more efficient investment of time than passionately arguing to newbies in a paper most of them won't know about or read.

[rizerk]

Write the essay! But GavJ is basically right. Post in default, play in whatever the hell you like best. And WanderingKid, as vanilla DF will likely not forever look the way it does now.

[wierd]

I still hold that there shouldn't be a community standard for what format screenshots are posted in; Inability to "Figure out what I am looking at" is subjective, and fully bidirectional.

People used to reading with a tileset will be unable to read any screenshots posted with ascii mode graphics on. (People like WanderingKid and myself)
People used to reading with ascii mode on will be unable to read any screenshots posted with tileset graphics on. (Various other posters.)

There is really no "correct" setting. Neither side has any moral highground in my estimation. People used to tile set graphics need to "just Get over it" when somebody posts images in ascii mode.  The same is true for people used to ascii mode graphics, seeing tileset based screenshots.  Neither has any room to bitch about the other. No, I don't care how much it makes your butt hurt. Seriously.

Post however you want to post. Let Armok sort them out.

[Kreydurst]

Only reason I use tilesets is because the default ASCII hurts my eyes after a while, and I tend to go on sprees of 10+ hours if I can managing my fort.

[GavJ]

Inability to "Figure out what I am looking at" is subjective, and fully bidirectional.

Everybody starts out with default and spends probably some decent amount of time learning it before they figure out how to change tilesets.

Even if not everybody, a huge majority, such that the most efficient standard is clearly default. 90% of people understanding at a glance is better than 10% understanding at a glance, yes? Unless you're in a subforum or a thread involving a mod where everybody uses the same nonstandard tileset or something. In which case, you should post in that.

Nothing to do with morality. Just making sense to the most people with the least effort.

[wierd]

this is not true at all.

Many people jump straight to LNP, which has tilesets on by default.

[GavJ]

Does LNP have a specific tileset on by default? If so, how close is it to default?

[BlackFlyme]

Does LNP have a specific tileset on by default? If so, how close is it to default?

LNP starts with Phoebus activated by default, IIRC.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Graphics_set_repository#Phoebus.27_Graphics_Pack

[Mishrak]

this is not true at all.

Many people jump straight to LNP, which has tilesets on by default.

This is exactly what I did.  I looked at the ASCII for about 30 seconds, said NOPE and found Captain Duck's videos using Ironhand.  So I used Irohand because that's how I learned.  I have since debated going back to ASCII now that I'm an experienced DF player.

[GavJ]

Hm, Phoebus doesn't look so similar.

Dunno what to tell you then. I'd still advocate default for any thread where you expect a lot of veterans to be reading, since even if they start with mods, they will come to be more and more familiar with default just from general exposure to the community, whereas the opposite seems less likely, or less quick to learn.

If targeting newbies,   If it's a critical schematic type of screenshot designed to teach somebody how to build something, perhaps post in more than one tileset. If just a story, use intuition to guess what most people in the thread probably would understand.

Regardless, what one personally uses seems much less relevant than whatever you suspect your audience is familiar with.

[Larix]

Pfeh. People play with whatever works best for them, for the most part. Screenshots are reasonably compatible, although it might help to give a short legend if what's shown isn't too obvious to those using other visuals. I find tile sets pretty bad at displaying aboveground events but have little trouble deciphering inside/underground screenshots with them. I've always played with ASCII and never even considered changing.

The one DON'T is uploading movies recorded using tiles or modded fonts to the map/video archive at mkv25.net. I think the recording grabs the game-internal display, which is the pseudo-ASCII symbols used as placeholders by the tile/font sets. Consequently, such recordings are usually gibberish.

[GavJ]

although it might help to give a short legend

That works too. Seems like more effort than just switching tilesets to me for one-off, but for like, a whole ongoing story or something in a community forum thread, that's a great solution.

It would also be possible to make a utility that makes AUTO legends from a tileset .png and a screenshot.

[WoobMonkey]

What I find odd about this whole thread is that, really, we can and do all understand what each tileset (or lack thereof) represents.

I've run a few threads, now, which have had a wide sampling of different tilesets used, varying from player to player.  Not once has anyone complained, or shown any difficulty whatsoever in understanding what's going on.

When one player prefers, say, SpaceFox, they just update the RAWs to reflect that.  With LNP (which, I'd wager pounds to pennies, a vast majority of players use), it's as simple as clicking a choice from a list, and then a button.  In my current thread, I started the embark with Phoebus.  One player prefers ASCII, and posted pics in that format instead.  Exactly nobody was confused.

Why is it okay to mod the hell out of everything *except* the graphics used?  Whenever a new race/critter/plant is modded in, it requires a symbol to be added - yet, nobody complains.

Is this forum truly so full of fuddy-duddies as to think that others shouldn't have a voice, simply because they have an accent?  Sure, sometimes a certain sprite may require some clarification; so what?  Sometimes a certain sentence, spoken through a thick accent, does as well.  Are we truly so arrogant as to expect an immigrant from a non-English speaking country to have perfect pronunciation and diction, as well?

DF already has enough hurdles to jump, when it comes to growing the fanbase.  How is limiting options for players helping with that in any what whatsoever?

If anyone wants to get so purist as to actively attempt to deny players from posting in whatever danged tileset they prefer, they'd best delete DFHack, Dwarf Therapist, Stonesense, Soundsense, LNP, and any other 3rd-party add-ons, mods, or other tools from their own HDDs.  To do less that that is hypocritical in the extreme.  After all, having DFHack fix the massive bugs in the program is exactly as non-vanilla as using Mayday's tileset to be able to understand what you're seeing while you play.

[GavJ]

we can and do all understand what each tileset (or lack thereof) represents.

No, I fail to understand almost anything that's going on, quite often. Beyond just "this is obviously a room. And that's a dwarf. And... uh... there's some unknown junk over there, and some strange animal there... and.......  ....."

I don't actively complain about it, because:
1) It would be obnoxious
2) It would break the mood in roleplaying threads.
3) It would often be unlikely to really change much to complain.
4) It DEFINITELY wouldn't change anything when the thread is 2 years old and I'm reading a classic story...

And often, I can fill in gaps based on the written text, or based on what the next person who uses a different tileset writes or shows (screenshots often overlap.)
That doesn't mean it's not still annoying, though. And it still slows down my reading a lot while I try to fit together a tedious puzzle.
Or in situations where the text is enough to understand, I'm still missing out on flavorful imagery, thus the story is less immersive due to tileset issues.



Compare to real life: if somebody is stuttering, I'm not gonna be like "OMIGOD you're stuttering, it's sooo hard to understand whine whine whine." I'm gonna politely be quiet. But it's still really hard to understand them! And stutterers know full well that evern though I'm not saying anything, a lack of stuttering would be far preferable still. Of course people can't turn off stuttering, but you can switch tilesets if you have a bizarre one.

[BoredVirulence]

I'll agree with GavJ on this. I use ASCII, and while I can decipher some graphics packs, some pictures are more obtuse and less legible for me.
When this happens no one complains, context says a lot. I'm pretty sure a lot of tileset purists have the same difficulty with ASCII screenshots.

I would say that many screenshots in a lot of cases should be ASCII, for a standard. But I certainly wouldn't expect to see that happen, and certainly don't blame people for uploading tileset screenshots. In some community games, it may even be standard to just upload in a different format.

Personally, there is no right answer. Everything is subjective. Some people prefer other things. While I do agree that ASCII has a more "pure" and original taste, everyone has the right to try something else. Regardless, ASCII and tileset both require translation.