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[GavJ]

Shields depicted here obviously optional and not actually doing that much, but threw it in anyway:

[GiglameshDespair]

The spaceship design also means it can do nothing but ram a bit.

That's why we want it like a rhino or Triceratops. Then it can gore, hook horns under vehicles to flip them... the crest will still be large, but the spaceship design lacks the slightest bit of flexibility. We want the charger to be useable even after it's reached the enemy.

[GavJ]

Yeah, horns are a good idea, and do not add much or anything to the biomatter cost of growing one, sure.

Btw, almost everything about this entire thing so far is consistent with starship troopers (except us being randomly afraid of walls):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[cheesemcmuffin88]

I sort of think these larger beasts should be used more as a way to get our soldiers to combat with minimal casualties then as weapons themselves not to say they shouldn't be able to attack themselves thats why i prefer Gav's design though giving it a horn wouldnt be that difficult either.

[GiglameshDespair]

Yes - it being a supporting tool rather than the weapon itself was never in doubt, but it should at least be useful in combat.

Also, think of it like this: Rhino-form looks like it could have just been a royal guard-type that we're bringing out now. Spaceship-form is so limited as to be obviously engineered for the cause. We want the xenos to know as little about us as possible.

Knowledge is power - the more we know, the less they know, the more likely is victory.

[GavJ]

Rhino-form looks like it could have just been a royal guard-type that we're bringing out now. Spaceship-form is so limited as to be obviously engineered for the cause. We want the xenos to know as little about us as possible.

Again, horns == yes, +1.

But a less than optimal, less-shield-y design, is more controversial.

Underselling ourselves in the name of misinformation is wasteful, unless you think that in the future, we will have some reasonably plausible situation where we would derive major benefit to springing the full depth of our abilities on them, unawares. Much more of a benefit than now. I'm not sure what that future situation would be, but perhaps you are thinking of one.

If there's not some future key event in mind, then making a non-optimal design now simply causes wasteful loss of soldier lives, and then confers no extra special benefit later, yes? Rhinos don't protect a squad of accompanying soldiers. By analogy, tanks by themselves are much less effective than mobile infantry/tanks combined arms.

Do you have something in mind that we should be saving our obviously-on-demand-breeding abilities for?

[GiglameshDespair]

I'm thinking more of a triceratops design - still with the the wide crest to protect warriors, but also more combat utility. Shouldn't drop much, if any, protective ability.

If they can work out we've purposely designed the chargers, then they'll know we're sentient. They'll have much greater cause to aware for future tricks and traps, and also - most critically - denying knowledge to us. If they put trackers on each of their soldiers, then recover or destroy any bodies we attempt to take, that's an effective way of denying us information. If we're still just insects, they'll have no cause to. If they put locks on their weaponry, they'll be useless to us in the future, as we won't (possibly ever) have the tech to unlock them.

If we can breed tanks, we could breed flyers, so they could set up their turrets for AA beforehand; we could breed a better digger to undermine their defences, so they could sink seismic sensors to watch for it; they'll start preparing for what we might do, instead of what just we have done. It'll render any new surprises a lot less effective. Our warriors - and these new chargers - are, to a great extent, expendable to the extent we can lose more in the name of misinformation. Half of a war is information. At some point, we'd have to drop the masquerade, but by then we should hopefully have the upper hand.

That's why I want to risk using a slightly less effective design.

[cheesemcmuffin88]

Keep in mind also the earlier we attack the less capabilities they will have militarily speaking I think our best Idea would be to hit them hard and hit them fast constantly keeping them on there heels so they wont be able to prepare for us the more time we give them the more screwed we are

[GavJ]

Fair enough. A triceratops doesn't really sound very effective at all though.

Maybe stepping back to the drawing board a bit... are there other  designs we could come up with that would look natural but also be much closer to optimal for a given strategy?

Acid spitters were suggested, which sounds like a solid option that is indeed fairly optimal sounding for sapping. But is a bit separate from the issue of fighting riflemen.

What about trench warfare? Subtly different than tunnels we already have... you can enter or leave at any point along a trench, but it still stops projectiles. It might not even require a separate caste at all depending how quickly our workers can build trenches -- can we actually dig them fast enough to almost use it as an on-the-fly offensive advance technique?  Or at the very least, we could pre-build so many trenches that they can't set foot outside without being within 10 feet of a trench, that we could use to get in slashing range safely with?

Or if our collapsible tunnels (i.e. becomes a trench) are really-seriously-for-real collapsible ON DEMAND, then why aren't we just already using those to pop up 3 feet away from guys and slit their throats?

[GiglameshDespair]

Flamethrowers would wreck our shit in trench warfare. Not to mention explosives.

[GavJ]

Flamethrowers would wreck our shit in trench warfare. Not to mention explosives.

1) We don't know about either of these things. Deciding with them in mind is cheating.
2) ?? Trenches are very effective against explosives. Even for humans in 2014 (well, actually we tend to use bags aboveground full of dirt now, but same difference, just cheaper). Especially for antmen that live underground already and can unearth themselves if buried and fix things quite safely and rapidly.

[cheesemcmuffin88]

I say lets stick with bioengineering for now rather then a major tactics changes and base our tactics around are beasts. Instead of basing our beasts around our tactics.

[Varee]

I still think we need to capture or aqquire xenos tech so that we can absorb them. I dont hink locking the gun or other idea is something we are going to be worry about as we can absorb them anyway. I also belive that the thick part of xenos body are likely to be bullet proof as if they have internal war it should protect them from their own weapon to a certain extend so i still belive aqquiring tech and breeding soldier with the extra protection will still benefit us more than some meat tank soldier. And also we might be able to get some good tech info from thier weapon(gunpowder and explosion)

[3man75]

I still think we need to capture or aqquire xenos tech so that we can absorb them. I dont hink locking the gun or other idea is something we are going to be worry about as we can absorb them anyway. I also belive that the thick part of xenos body are likely to be bullet proof as if they have internal war it should protect them from their own weapon to a certain extend so i still belive aqquiring tech and breeding soldier with the extra protection will still benefit us more than some meat tank soldier. And also we might be able to get some good tech info from thier weapon(gunpowder and explosion)

How? As soon as our soldiers get near that wall full of soldiers and probally machine guns they get iced.  We'll get lucky if they decide to start up expeditions away from there fortress but not near them. Btw ambush spots should start be planned along pit traps.

I say lets stick with bioengineering for now rather then a major tactics changes and base our tactics around are beasts. Instead of basing our beasts around our tactics.

We didn't exacly have alot tactical options besides zerging or waiting for an ambush. +1

[Varee]

Whatni would suggest is make like pit trap like the viet and just drag guys down holes if they come walking out. They cant really just stay in the base we can give them false sense of sicurity to lure them out a bit while we create more and more tunnel. Also the dig under wall foundation plan is still a viable option right?