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Author Topic: Colonization: Alien Thread  (Read 11722 times)

3man75

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #105 on: May 22, 2014, 11:46:10 pm »

Whatni would suggest is make like pit trap like the viet and just drag guys down holes if they come walking out. They cant really just stay in the base we can give them false sense of sicurity to lure them out a bit while we create more and more tunnel. Also the dig under wall foundation plan is still a viable option right?

We are doing that already...Btw do you auto correct bro?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #106 on: May 23, 2014, 01:20:24 am »

A couple deductions about our circumstances:

1) People were asking if we have native enemies on this planet, or ever did.  The answer should clearly be YES, since we have evolved a warrior caste. A unanimous hive mind has no reason for warriors if it didn't have enemies. And they seem like pretty vicious and advanced warriors that take up a lot of our egg proportion, so probably we have or had quite ferocious and persistent enemies, at that. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to expect all manner of military strategy and technology-level-appropriate military gizmos, etc.
They probably are quite dangerous predators, considering the fact that there's barely 30 000 of us, in the nearby area, while we're shown to have a massive population growth. Strangely enough it's the casualties amongst workers that are the largest.

Following the ratio:
100 Queens means there must have been 200 000 eggs. Which means there should have originally been
50 000 warriors and
149900 workers

Now, this doesn't include life time, which would be a great explanation.

Quote
2) That being said, armor is almost definitely not amongst our knowledge base. For one, we have exoskeletons and chitin is almost as strong as bronze anyway, so it makes good sense that we haven't invented it. But more importantly, in the story, our soldiers didn't realize that the Xenos' armor was armor, we thought it was part of their bodies. If we had armor technology, we would never have made such a mistake.

So "make bronze armor" I don't think is an option, at least not without researching and learning the secrets of armor in general from Xeno artifacts brought back to the queens.

And bronze armor would be useless anyway. One Xeno's gun can apparently cut through a dozen soldiers merely in the time it takes us to run to him. They must be using some crazy machine railgun whatever. Bronze will be about as effective as butter.  And we would KNOW this, too, having observed the carnage of our troops and thus understanding how powerful their weapons must be, if not how they work.

And the making of all that buttery useless armor would make smoke and give our positions away as well as signalling to the xenos that we are more technologically advanced than they might suspect.
Well yes. Actually, the only reason that I put the bronzeworking technology in is because it's the limit of our capabilities, and getting there should, perhaps, allow for some innovation.

Additionally, there was a reason that I specified the production system to be as far away from the Xenos, preferably on the other side of the planet.


Somethign like a giant rhino may be effective as a force multiplier. A skull thicker than God to absorb shots, redundant organ systems, and sixty tons of adrenaline to keep it going. It would act liek a shield and battering ram, with the ordinary warriors close behind: it would absorb the fire, allowing our warriors to get in close and slice'n'dice. The sheer mass of the creature would give it anti-vehicle capabilities, as it could ram and turn them over for warriors to break into.
This was actually in the composite suggestion. Not creating them ourselves, but finding them in the wild. Getting a herd of them that way is much easier than having to create them ourselves. And since we're going to use  them for a semi suicidal charge anyway.

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Rhino-form looks like it could have just been a royal guard-type that we're bringing out now. Spaceship-form is so limited as to be obviously engineered for the cause. We want the xenos to know as little about us as possible.
Again, horns == yes, +1.

But a less than optimal, less-shield-y design, is more controversial.

Underselling ourselves in the name of misinformation is wasteful, unless you think that in the future, we will have some reasonably plausible situation where we would derive major benefit to springing the full depth of our abilities on them, unawares. Much more of a benefit than now. I'm not sure what that future situation would be, but perhaps you are thinking of one.

If there's not some future key event in mind, then making a non-optimal design now simply causes wasteful loss of soldier lives, and then confers no extra special benefit later, yes? Rhinos don't protect a squad of accompanying soldiers. By analogy, tanks by themselves are much less effective than mobile infantry/tanks combined arms.

Do you have something in mind that we should be saving our obviously-on-demand-breeding abilities for?
Besides, we're playing against Bay12'ers. They know what we can do, and they know what forces we started with. They won't meta, but they will be very carefull.

Fair enough. A triceratops doesn't really sound very effective at all though.

Maybe stepping back to the drawing board a bit... are there other  designs we could come up with that would look natural but also be much closer to optimal for a given strategy?

Acid spitters were suggested, which sounds like a solid option that is indeed fairly optimal sounding for sapping. But is a bit separate from the issue of fighting riflemen.

What about trench warfare? Subtly different than tunnels we already have... you can enter or leave at any point along a trench, but it still stops projectiles. It might not even require a separate caste at all depending how quickly our workers can build trenches -- can we actually dig them fast enough to almost use it as an on-the-fly offensive advance technique?  Or at the very least, we could pre-build so many trenches that they can't set foot outside without being within 10 feet of a trench, that we could use to get in slashing range safely with?

Or if our collapsible tunnels (i.e. becomes a trench) are really-seriously-for-real collapsible ON DEMAND, then why aren't we just already using those to pop up 3 feet away from guys and slit their throats?
The point of our current strategy is to appear in close range as fast as possible. The long range battle is on we're probably never going to win.




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3man75

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #107 on: May 23, 2014, 09:39:40 pm »

Possibly instead of acid spitting...plague spitting?

We don't have to win but just start a disease to start spreading, preferably on there workers. There definitely going to need barracks/workshops/factories/garages right? Let's catch them then and slime them up, eh?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #108 on: May 24, 2014, 01:20:38 am »

Nope, both quite unrealistic (we have no idea of the human biostructure), and it turns the worker into an unreliable "super" weapon rather than a versatile combat and economic asset.
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3man75

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #109 on: May 24, 2014, 08:50:22 am »

Nope, both quite unrealistic (we have no idea of the human biostructure), and it turns the worker into an unreliable "super" weapon rather than a versatile combat and economic asset.

I thought we were creating a new type of soldier? Who are ((suppose)) to be fearless.

This could always be a long term plan.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #110 on: May 24, 2014, 08:55:18 am »

I have no probems with it as a long term plan, but we need to capture a human first.

And I have no idea how the votes currently are. There were 2-3 people in support of a fearless warrior, which for the moment is a pretty useless asset. The advantage to storm our troops to death on the enemy walls isn't much of an ability if we don't have some way to profit from it.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #111 on: May 24, 2014, 08:58:05 am »

I think we'd decided to make a big Charger type. I think votes leaned towards my design (rhino with crest) rather than spaceship (see GavJ's image)?
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3man75

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #112 on: May 24, 2014, 09:07:21 am »

I think we'd decided to make a big Charger type. I think votes leaned towards my design (rhino with crest) rather than spaceship (see GavJ's image)?

I beleive so, basically this bastard would run through the wall or just flip over the APC's with it's massive and super hardened rino like charge. It'd also of course be fearless and backed up by others soldiers who would run behind it. Begining there attack after the first charge. Following that charge the Rhino Ant would continuisly ram the wall or keep attacking enemy troops...I beleive that was most of the idea. Gig thoughts?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #113 on: May 24, 2014, 09:10:53 am »

The big charger won't be very useful for the moment. One, we tunneled under the surroundings of their base, and two, they have turrets which will take down our normal soldiers, even if the big guys make it through. Three, Concrete walls are sturdy.

If we do the acid worker thingy now, we can start to destabilize their walls. If we end up lucky, we might be able to find, and later utilize a large group of mega fauna for an assault of the base. Otherwise, we do the big guy thing next turn.

Or if we can, we can try both.

Anyway, I think we need to finalize actions. Anyone up for making a final summary post. (Feel free to use my composite suggestion list as a useful basis.)
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #114 on: May 24, 2014, 09:19:39 am »

...The main point of the chargers is that they act as shields, so even if the big guys die the little ones can make it to and thus over the wall. maybe they could bust the wall at weakened points or at gates - they have to have some way to get in and out of their compound.

I'd say try it the other way round - see how well the chargers do, they utilise acid workers with the chargers next turn to see how they goes down.

Some kind of flying troop might be useful. If we can grow acid sacks, we could drop them like bombs on top of the enemy defences.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #115 on: May 24, 2014, 09:50:35 am »

If it's a decently designed military fortification, and they're smart, the big guys won't be enough of a shield.
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3man75

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #116 on: May 24, 2014, 10:41:19 am »

We can still smash into there people/Vehicles. Then kill people right?
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GavJ

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #117 on: May 24, 2014, 03:10:46 pm »

I think we'd decided to make a big Charger type. I think votes leaned towards my design (rhino with crest) rather than spaceship (see GavJ's image)?

I beleive so, basically this bastard would run through the wall or just flip over the APC's with it's massive and super hardened rino like charge. It'd also of course be fearless and backed up by others soldiers who would run behind it.

They can attempt to run behind, but it ain't gonna protect them from squat versus running by themselves. Triceratops, rhinos, and every other natural looking "this totally wasn't bred for the purposes of attacking our riflemen" creature would only have protection for it's own cross sectional area. It doesn't make much sense for a normal animal to have armor plating sticking out beyond its own body.

Which was the whole issue -- gotta choose either A) Actually useful at all for protecting infantry running behind it or B) Looks like it might have been around beforehand.

Personally, I think even if you were to show the other Bay12'ers an image of a spaceship ant, they would almost certainly not deduce that we have the ability to specially breed new castes, but whatever. (They WOULD deduce sentience, but they already know that from coordinated ambushes and intelligent digging to stop the wall, and us sneaking around to their construction workers, etc.)




(Note that spaceship, unlike triceratops, also protect fairly steep angles from above, i.e. guys on walls).
Rhinos are even worse. Their heads are significantly SMALLER than their bodies.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 03:13:24 pm by GavJ »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #118 on: May 24, 2014, 03:22:38 pm »

Problem is, they know that we have the ability to create new subspecies, it was explicitly stated in our faction description in the OP

I don't think we should therefore rely on the enemy faction willingly handicapping themselves.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Colonization: Alien Thread
« Reply #119 on: May 24, 2014, 03:33:53 pm »

No, Gav, it still has the wide crest to protect the warriors, it just also has a neck, so it can do something once it gets there.
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