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[sonofperturabo]

some idea:


a reaction that allows any organic material to be rendered down into a rock-like building material
remove the ability to wield ranged weapons entirely, instead give them special castes or mutations that serve the same propose as a ranged weapon.
the ability to assimilate traits, i.e. you fight a bunch of creatures with [NO_PAIN] kill them, and then run a time consuming reaction that has a chance of granting [NO_PAIN]. could also work with negative traits like [ALCHOL_DEPENDENT]
babies would probably go through several stage
babies start out as eggs, which are immobile and must be guarded, encouraging players to make 'birthing chambers'
the ability to kill of one bug to get another bug of a different type?
lots of bio-weaponry, i.e. syndrome inducing clouds spewed out by immobile bugs, if IIRC, there is already a syndrome that mesh did not put into the game but is still in the RAWS, i sort off want that to be weaponized by the bugs.
procedurally generated mutants occasionally are born, keeping players guessing
i second the request for a acid like substance that dissolves armor.

here are the RAWS for a bug i did a while ago. hope it is helpful. tell me if it is, i have more.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:GRUB]
   [DESCRIPTION:a large grub]
   [NAME:grub:grub:grub]
   [CASTE_NAME:grub:grub:grub]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'{'][COLOR:7:0:1][ALTTILE:'}']
   [PETVALUE:1]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC]
   [SMALL_REMAINS][NATURAL]
   [PREFSTRING:usefulness]
   [NOBONES]
   [BODY:BODY_WITH_HEAD_FLAG:HEART:GUTS:BRAIN:MOUTH]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
      [REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]
      [REMOVE_MATERIAL:BONE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
      [REMOVE_TISSUE:HAIR]
      [REMOVE_TISSUE:BONE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:EXOSKELETON_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE]
   [HAS_NERVES]
   [SPEED:29000]
   [BODY_SIZE:2:0:30000]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
      [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GRAY:1]
         [TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
   [CASTE:SPINNER]
      [CASTE_NAME:silk grub:silk grubs]
      [POP_RATIO:100
   [CASTE:SUGAR APHID]
      [CASTE_NAME:honeydew aphid:honeydew aphids]
      [POP_RATIO:100
   [SELECT_CASTE:SUGAR APHID]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILK:MILK_TEMPLATE]
         [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:frozen honeydew]
         [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen honeydew]
         [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:honeydew]
         [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:honeydew]
         [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling honeydew]
         [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling honeydew]
         [PREFIX:sugary]
      [MILKABLE:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:MILK:20000]
      [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:CHEESE:CREATURE_CHEESE_TEMPLATE]
         [STATE_NAME:SOLID:honeydew paste]
         [STATE_ADJ:SOLID:honeydew paste]
         [STATE_NAME:SOLID_POWDER:honeydew powder]
         [STATE_ADJ:SOLID_POWDER:honeydew powder]
         [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:melted honeydew paste]
         [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:melted honeydew paste]
         [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling honeydew paste]
         [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling honeydew paste]
         [PREFIX:sticky]
   [SELECT_CASTE:SPINNER]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SILK:SILK_TEMPLATE]
      [WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK]
      [THICKWEB]
      [WEBIMMUNE]

[Nidor]

As an elaboration on the previous thought of the disposing of armors with acids, how would you feel about it creating a reagent, such as -Iron Infused Slurry- or something like that, which is used up in all reinforcement/defense style upgrades in the mutation chambers, or for hardening the Chitin "Armor" beyond the typical Chitin + Chitin = Rigid Chitin + bronze/iron slurry = Carapace? + steel/mithril/wolfram slurry etc = Rigid Carapace?

Though the previous suggestion of acid sprays to damage armor sounds neat, is it possible to cause x X's on armors mid combat? Does such damaged armors reduce their effectiveness or is it a case of good till it's gone?

This might be too complicated for its own good, but here is a further attempt to link my suggestion of larva > Drone > Worker/Warrior/Breeder  mutation trees to the OP. For example, the fungal strain, in the base drone the effects would be dormant, but once it is given a role via the work/war/breed mutation, rather than it grows food, how about when it goes to the mutation chamber to become worker the food growing part happens, but if they go warrior, it gives or unlocks the spore cannon adaption, where the breeder might get an increased "litter" size or lower hatch/gestation time?

If you want even more complication, Warrior class mutations could split between melee (dust based attack) or ranged (the spore cannon projectile type). I can work out a quick tree if i get time.

[jaxy15]

I like the idea of playable insects. I'm a fan of mods that use biological things over metal and such, so I can't wait to see how this will turn out when you get around to it.

[Meph]

I didnt read everything yet... that being said, I think it could be possible to use civ-specific meat for mutations.

Kill dwarf , butcher dwarf , eat dwarf , mutate into alcohol-dependant smallish insect with martial trances and high toughness. Eat Elf, mutate into thin, agile mantis-like hunter. That might be possible.

I kinda like the whole Attack of the Bodysnatcher idea Rumrusher was going for... makes sense. Mimic insects.

I want to avoid zergling-mass rush tactics, for three reasons. 1 its hard to get attached to a specific character if they die so often, 2 kobolds do that already, 3 fps death.

I will let you guys discuss more, and make a larger post collecting viable suggestions later.

Ps: Neri, I am almost done. France atm, only Monaco, Italy and San Marino to go. Then a break till August.

[Nidor]

Cool, would be interesting to see what you would come up with. While I do agree on the no zerg rush thing due to bodyparts and fps death, I tend to think of them as expendable sounding. That in mind, I was working on a chart, it isn't finished yet, but figured I would share. Again, these might be impossible, out of the scope of the original vision of Meph, or maybe just plain silly, but it is an idea .

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sorry if that is a bit small, fairly new to foruming, hope I posted that right.

[misiekm]

I didnt read everything yet... that being said, I think it could be possible to use civ-specific meat for mutations.

Kill dwarf , butcher dwarf , eat dwarf , mutate into alcohol-dependant smallish insect with martial trances and high toughness. Eat Elf, mutate into thin, agile mantis-like hunter. That might be possible.

If you mean leaving those meats as normal food, I feel like that'd lead to problems similar to vampires and bloodwine in Warlocks, given how difficult it is to get civ members to eat / drink specific things. Maybe make those civ-specific meats tool-like items, and have "eating" them as a reaction in a workshop?

[Samarkand]

I think the golden idea of this race so far is the idea of biomass. If you incorporate that heavily, I will definitely play this race quite a bit.

[zach123b]

hear me out now, what if... you make the insects cannibals using the vampire part of bloodsucking?

such as have all units or just the fighters be bloodsuckers then use specific food or pets to feed them
the pets should be stun immune and need sleep so they are sleeping most of the time
maybe use a syndrome to turn invaders into sleeping tames which you could line the halls with
or use certain foods for control


can the insects from good biomes adapt to a more peaceful life? longer life and may vanish, maybe an increase to trade skill increase

and is there anyway to produce certain types of grass or a work around such as a workshop to feed?  i fear the mish mash that comes from piercing all 3 caverns, that it will become tedious and monotonous to get the right grass for the unit you want without building in the caverns far from base

[SharpKris]

Cool, would be interesting to see what you would come up with. While I do agree on the no zerg rush thing due to bodyparts and fps death, I tend to think of them as expendable sounding. That in mind, I was working on a chart, it isn't finished yet, but figured I would share. Again, these might be impossible, out of the scope of the original vision of Meph, or maybe just plain silly, but it is an idea .

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sorry if that is a bit small, fairly new to foruming, hope I posted that right.

i do love charts

[Propman]

I want to avoid zergling-mass rush tactics, for three reasons. 1 its hard to get attached to a specific character if they die so often, 2 kobolds do that already, 3 fps death.

Mmmm, the main difference between sectoids and kobolds is that zerg rush is the bolds' primary strategy as well as unit type, while zerglings/termagants/what have you would be a single caste of sectoid that are meant to act as a buffer for your more useful units to take advantage of, so that invaders are whacking at nameless battledrone #127 instead of a hive queen while you get your elephant sized battle-reavers ready. Perhaps they'd be a single expendable caste similar to how dwarves tend to use guard dogs, as opposed to the sole unit in your military like how the Kobolds work.

 Still, if we're going to add that sort of unit, I'd say make their body parts disintegrate upon death to lower FPS loss, which would also work against simply spamming them 24/7; using nothing but rushers would cause you to lose biomass that could be regained as food.

[Rumrusher]

I want to avoid zergling-mass rush tactics, for three reasons. 1 its hard to get attached to a specific character if they die so often, 2 kobolds do that already, 3 fps death.

Mmmm, the main difference between sectoids and kobolds is that zerg rush is the bolds' primary strategy as well as unit type, while zerglings/termagants/what have you would be a single caste of sectoid that are meant to act as a buffer for your more useful units to take advantage of, so that invaders are whacking at nameless battledrone #127 instead of a hive queen while you get your elephant sized battle-reavers ready. Perhaps they'd be a single expendable caste similar to how dwarves tend to use guard dogs, as opposed to the sole unit in your military like how the Kobolds work.

 Still, if we're going to add that sort of unit, I'd say make their body parts disintegrate upon death to lower FPS loss, which would also work against simply spamming them 24/7; using nothing but rushers would cause you to lose biomass that could be regained as food.

Sectoids you say? now I got images of small gray aliens running around pretending to be bugs.

[Propman]

I want to avoid zergling-mass rush tactics, for three reasons. 1 its hard to get attached to a specific character if they die so often, 2 kobolds do that already, 3 fps death.

Mmmm, the main difference between sectoids and kobolds is that zerg rush is the bolds' primary strategy as well as unit type, while zerglings/termagants/what have you would be a single caste of sectoid that are meant to act as a buffer for your more useful units to take advantage of, so that invaders are whacking at nameless battledrone #127 instead of a hive queen while you get your elephant sized battle-reavers ready. Perhaps they'd be a single expendable caste similar to how dwarves tend to use guard dogs, as opposed to the sole unit in your military like how the Kobolds work.

 Still, if we're going to add that sort of unit, I'd say make their body parts disintegrate upon death to lower FPS loss, which would also work against simply spamming them 24/7; using nothing but rushers would cause you to lose biomass that could be regained as food.

Sectoids you say? now I got images of small gray aliens running around pretending to be bugs.

Herp, too much X-Com on my part, though aliens sound like a hilarious idea.

[Meph]

Aliens are a bit too sci-fi.

Automatons with their robot like steampunk are non-genre enough. ^^

Zergling like dogs that leave no corpses can be done.

The charts are awesome, but the suggested changes have a problem: They require transformations, and cant be done with syndromes alone.

Using specific food on other civ members or using tools as meat I cant do.

I really do like the mimic idea, which aboveground fort that looks normal, and a hidden insect base underneath. It would explain the trade depot, caravans and the badic vanilla workshops. I cant take away still, kitchen or clothier etc. from them, but its a nice explanation that they build those as decoys to fool traders.

Anyone here reads/knows Shadowrun? Universal Brotherhood and their Insect shamans/conversion? It would fit oh-so-perfectly.

Rumrusher, could you be a bit more specific about that multi-civ plugin? I somehow never heard aboit it, nor have I seen anyone use it.

Maybe it would be a good idea to make your main units grazers as well, and have them level up 3 times, from each of the caverns? So you start with basic units, but the deeper the hive goes, the more powerful your units get?

It just has to be something not-too-complex, otherwise its hard to micromanage and learn. And I really like the idea of farmibg biomass from colonies/hives.

[jcd]

i believe some of the best (and worst) mutations should be random, the chances for them to happen changing according to past events and maybe personal attributes or positive/negative thoughts (say, when a mutation is triggered, there is always a chance that the mutation won't be the expected one, but based on a number of factors, one of the other valid mutations for that evolution stage would be triggered instead)

this could make the evolution a little less cause-effect oriented and bring interesting or even fun surprises to the player (not to mention that it will give the opportunity to try crazy mutation ideas, with low %'s to trigger)

[Nidor]

The charts are awesome, but the suggested changes have a problem: They require transformations, and cant be done with syndromes alone.

Fair enough, the mutation angle lent itself well to the transformation method, but it would result in having a boatload of caste management in exchange for the mixed unit tactics.  I am still keen on weapons not being crafted, but rather grown from a "sacrificed" worker/larva, in the effect that that weapon is actually alive (gives attachment to and naming of weapons a bit more sense eh?).

On the civ specific corpse conversions, I know orc fortress has specified souls for the races in their dreamwalk totem reactions, so maybe Dwarf Soul, skull, generic meat, bone would be fair enough on the reagents?