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Author Topic: Fort locations  (Read 4273 times)

Kreydurst

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Fort locations
« on: May 12, 2014, 10:14:31 pm »

Now, feel free to berate and smash me as you please. But is doing an instant dig to cavern 3 for instant magma forts a semi reasonable idea? I'm starting to find the mass deforestation for my metal industry is quite insane (I keep getting unlucky, and can't see to find a place with coal.) While it does help me get into wars quickly with elves, I feel as if I've lost to many a wood cutter to ambushes resulting in the fort atom smashing enraged behavior due to production slowdowns.

In short, is it a good idea / semi safe to go to magma layer instant? (Yes, I know trade will be a pain until I get a track system done.)
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Ramaraunt

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 10:32:59 pm »

You should be prepared to breach caverns by mistake, but I think this would work fine. However, this means resources on the surface are further away, so your dwarves will be slower at gathering them. I recommend maybe splitting your fort in half, with the smelters at the magma layer, and everything else up higher. Maybe your smelters could have their own private farms, and be their own separate city down lower. With the use of burrows you can prevent the people that live in the forging area from coming upstairs into the main city. I've thought about making a setup like this before. Dropshoots could be used to send ore to the smelter a lot faster as a bonus, but be sure that the ore doesn't land on someone's head.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 10:35:47 pm by Ramaraunt »
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Tenderroast

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 12:15:34 am »

the best method i have found for preventing the "ore to the head", isa  hatch cover on the 2nd to last 2lvl from the bottom. Link to a lever near the smelters, and give it a double pull when you need more ore (or sand bags, or clay. To prevent an idiot from picking up the ore on top of hte hatch cover to take back up top, just build a wall blocking it, after the link is in place.
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seaturtlehorsesnake

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 12:59:18 am »

would embarking on a volcano also be an option? that would give you ready access to magma, or at least make it visible at the start.

sorry if i'm misunderstanding.
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WoobMonkey

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 01:04:41 am »



In short, is it a good idea / semi safe to go to magma layer instant? (Yes, I know trade will be a pain until I get a track system done.)

This is DF.  The concept 'good idea' and the concept 'safe' do not belong together in the same sentence.

But yes, magma is the answer.  Always.
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doublestrafe

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2014, 01:35:24 am »

"Digging to victory" is absolutely a viable strategy. If that's the way I'm going to go, I'll do it ASAP, so I can wall off passages through the caverns before the nasties show up. Ideally, what I'll be looking for is a vertical shaft that goes all the way up and down while being thick enough to run a pump stack through without having to patch it, but I'll also carve out a workroom over the magma, and also a dorm and a small dining hall.
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GavJ

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 02:39:34 am »

If you're only using the magma for forges, simply do a magma piston.
1) Dig down to the magma. If/ when you hit caverns, find a different path that goes all through straight rock.
2) Dig a little trench at the magma sea and flood it at the bottom of the solid rock path you found. It's important the floor be normal rock, not semi molten rock.
3) Start at top and channel a ring all the way down. Just a 6 or so tile diameter is fine.
4) Dig out the bottom, except for a support or a floor on the side or whatever. Such that the pillar of rock is suspended above the magma.
5) Cut a little cup shape in the top of your pillar
6) Remove support and cave it in. It will fall 2 or 3 z levels. The magma it fell into gets teleported to the top and held in by the cup. Ta da! you now have a surface pool of magma for your forges. Live happily ever after. You can go ahead and spread out that magma wider to 2/7 without it evaporating.

Total investment of resources: about 3 months of simple digging.
* NO need for any magma safe materials
* NO pump building or other buildings/constructions (other than a pillar and sundries)
* NO powering any machines


Yeah, building a fort in the caverns level 3 is faster, but also pretty restrictive on construction projects, relations with visitors, etc. If you WANT to build a fort down there anyway, then great. But I wouldn't bind myself to that ever for something as simple as magma forges.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 02:41:14 am by GavJ »
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Kreydurst

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 07:54:50 am »

Alright, I'll begin the fun and see how fast I get destroyed by a forgotten beast.
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Ramaraunt

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 09:44:16 am »

If you are really desperate you could just spawn magma where you want it using dfhack.
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slothen

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 10:59:26 am »

In my last major fort, I was able to support a robust steel industry based entirely on charcoal.  My only source of iron was goblinite, so there was LOTS of fuel-intensive melting, and there were no surface trees (badlands).  I imported lots of wood, I dug out many 10x10 rooms in the soil layer (in a rough ring under the footprint of my outer wall on the surface), and after a few years, I found the trees were so thick in the cavern layers that I could fill up my stockpiles just by clearcutting a few screens.

Going straight for magma and cavern 3 is just fine, especially if you're ready to build your entire fort down there.  There's not exactly a good reason not to.  Just bring a lot of picks.
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Ramaraunt

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 12:04:20 pm »

I just got super lucky with world gen and genned two volcanoes 10 tiles from each other. This is going to be fun.
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GavJ

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 12:17:14 pm »

I just got super lucky with world gen and genned two volcanoes 10 tiles from each other. This is going to be fun.

Two embark tiles or two world tiles?
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joeclark77

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 01:08:54 pm »

I just got super lucky with world gen and genned two volcanoes 10 tiles from each other. This is going to be fun.
If you make the world really really volcanic, you'll often find you have some subterranean magma shafts in addition to your volcano.  Dig down to the first cavern and see if you see one there!
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Sadrice

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 02:03:43 pm »

I usually dig an exploratory shaft to the bottom of the map as soon as I have initial storage  shops, and living areas dug out, finding all caverns and magma as well as exposing ore so I can get some mined before the smelters are built.


If you do this, an important thing to remember (which I often forget) is to build hatch covers before you breach the caverns.  When you breach a cavern try to do it via a stair through the ceiling.  If you hit a column or wall and for some reason you forget to remove the designation before they reach the cavern floor (I do this a lot), remove the rest of your staircase (the designation, not the carved stairs) and backtrack to the highest hatch blockable cavern access, go to the side a few tiles (I like 5 to leave room for traps and later redesigns) and continue downwards, missing the caverns.  That way, you can seal off each cavern individually (building destroyers can not destroy locked hatches from below, though I suppose that could be considered an exploit).  It's also a good idea to put a hatch at the lowest level of your working fortress (usually either Z-20 or Z-30 for me), and every 20 levels or so on your staircase, in case of mishaps and you suddenly want the staircase sealed NOW.


It is very important that each cavern is individually sealable.  This was my downfall on my most recent fort.  It was a haunted tropical beach (with haunted ocean, though the worst I saw from it were the zombie horseshoe crabs that were the greeting party for my starting 7).  Through various mishaps, I had a tantrum spiral starting, 40 dwarves (I had very good luck getting migrants indoors), about 5 beds, and no more wood.  Right as I was getting more from the caverns, a three tailed fire breathing salamander showed up.  I was in the process of individually sealing the caverns, and the hauling had actually started for the necessary hatch cover, but due to the fact that I had idiotically made them out of native gold it was taking forever to get there, and the salamander was fast.  I ended up having sealing the fortress basement hatch at Z-30, cutting off all access to the caverns and giving the salamander free reign of the main staircase below the hatch.  He got in a fight with a tribe of ant people in cavern three (which had been busy fighting their own zombies after a six legged vomit beast ran into them earlier), and after that bounced back and forth between all three caverns, burning down what seemed like every tree in the underground before finally getting locked in eternal combat with a soldier ant person who happened to have a fungi wood shield and enough blocking skill to be seemingly fireproof, but was unable to harm the salamander with his tunnel tube spear.  As far as I know, they are still there, eternally burning down the fungus forests of the third cavern.  With no beds for hospitals, half my dwarves babbling (my fortress is littered with the clothes of the insane), and everyone too upset to actually dump the corpses, it quickly crumbled to its end as all the corpses piling up in the entrance hall began to rise.  I was quite sad, as I had a fell mood in progress, and I had had an actual kobold invasion (vile force of darkness has arrived), which I had never even seen before.  Of course, the kobolds were outnumbered by zombie elephants, but still, it was cool.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 04:03:59 pm by Sadrice »
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Ramaraunt

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Re: Fort locations
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 02:43:13 pm »

It seems to be a common occurrence for ant people to get locked in eternal battle with forgotten beasts. That's happened to me before too.
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