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Yes, we should keep it

13 (24.5%)

No, we should ban it

40 (75.5%)

Total Members Voted: 52

[Arcvasti]

Hear in Canadia, we don't have a Death Penalty. I'm pretty sure our jails are mostly full as a result. I think that the Death Penalty is SOMETIMES a good idea and is probably better from a purely efficient standpoint[A dead criminal requires no food{If he does, you're doing it wrong}], but is sort of morally dubious. Only executing volunteers sounds like it would be an interesting system. Not entirely sure what I think about this whole thing.

[Zangi]

On a separate note, if we ARE going to keep doing executions in the ol'USA I pray to god we bring back the guillotine or something similar, because the current incredibly cruel method of doing it is blood-curdling. You don't spend an hour writhing and screaming in pain with the guillotine (or being in that much pain but also being completely paralyzed and unable to writhe or scream, which is what happens when it works "right").

Chemical executions are cruel, unreliable, dehumanizing, and expensive as fuck, and I do not understand how they actually became so popular when we had a perfectly valid alternative that was absolutely none of those things. I guess it's a natural progression from the electric chair though, which had all the same problems...

Because it LOOKS clean and humane.  No blood... less mess...

[pisskop]

Is the psychological torture of life in prison/a bloody death worse or better than the pains of our current 'humane' way of doing?
#euthanasia like a dog

[T-Mick]

In modern days, with sophisticated prisons that can actually hold a man for life, capital punishment is pretty much unnecessary.

In medieval ages, for Catholics (Read: just about everyone) there were times when capital punishment was considered to be advisable. The prison couldn't hold hardened criminals for life, and if they escaped, they were unlikely to change their ways. The scheduled and certain death actively looming tends to humanize you, and so put those criminals in a unique position that made repentance, and thus salvation, much more feasible. You might even call it merciful.

[misko27]

In modern days, with sophisticated prisons that can actually hold a man for life, capital punishment is pretty much unnecessary.

In medieval ages, for Catholics (Read: just about everyone) there were times when capital punishment was considered to be advisable. The prison couldn't hold hardened criminals for life, and if they escaped, they were unlikely to change their ways. The scheduled and certain death actively looming tends to humanize you, and so put those criminals in a unique position that made repentance, and thus salvation, much more feasible. You might even call it merciful.

One could argue the moral dilemma to life imprisonment (See: The Bet): "Is it more right to strip a man of his life over years then an instant?" and that sort of thing. And that coolly moves into whether incarceration is moral from the degrees of your life it takes. And so on.

[Levi]

One could argue the moral dilemma to life imprisonment (See: The Bet): "Is it more right to strip a man of his life over years then an instant?" and that sort of thing. And that coolly moves into whether incarceration is moral from the degrees of your life it takes. And so on.

That sort of question is better left to the prisoner I think.  Its his life after all.

[BurnedToast]

The death penalty is a disgusting disgrace.

In the last 10 years, 474 people were executed in the US. Assuming 4% is accurate, that means about 19 innocent people have been put to death in the last decade.

For what? vengeance? revenge? bloodthirst? They died for nothing.

As for me, I am perfectly fine with the death penalty. Why?

Because it's more economical than lifetime imprisonment.

4% might seem a little high, but even with a 1:20 innocent to guilty ratio, I'll still stick with my original beliefs on execution (man this makes me sound evil).

So you're fine with killing innocent people just to (in theory, but not in practice) save the state a little cash? An innocent person's life is worth less to you then a penny (total, not per year) which is a back-of-the envelope calculation of how much keeping someone in prison for 30 years divided by everyone in the country would cost?

Yes, it does make you sound evil.

[LordSlowpoke]

* LordSlowpoke buzzes into thread

* LordSlowpoke looks at title

* LordSlowpoke looks at held sign

DEATH PENALTY THREAD

riiiiight

The death penalty is a disgusting disgrace.

In the last 10 years, 474 people were executed in the US. Assuming 4% is accurate, that means about 19 innocent people have been put to death in the last decade.

For what? vengeance? revenge? bloodthirst? They died for nothing.

speaking as someone who rarely condemns people as irredeemable, you can't help but notice that they exist.

now, i'm not saying the system is perfect (especially the us system...) but that's human. i'd be really glad if we could just set a computer to the death penalty stuff, at least it'd be impartial, right?

but honestly? yeah. it's mostly vengeance. you're giving the victim (or people related to the victim, in case the former's deceased) a sense that justice has been made, even if it hasn't really. eye for eye, tooth for tooth, ancient practice.

i'm all for switching the focus of the current system to 120% rehabilitation, but that won't even budge in the slightest in the current mindset, or if it goes will actually turn worse - do you think private prisons of all places have a reason to rehabilitate people?

but still, as said. there are people who can't be helped by any amount of therapy, and it's either death penalty or life sentence in a psych ward for these. i won't say death is better - it's just cheaper.

[Graknorke]

I dunno, I feel like there is some kind of moral obligation to punish.  You do something wrong, you should get punished.  At the very least you should be forced to make reparations.  If we just wanted to prevent crimes we could just lock up everybody in the country and be done with it.

Reparations, yes, that would be good. That fixes a problem. What problem does punishment solve though?

As an absolutely insane person I killed your dog and ate it in front of your kids.
Is just giving you 100$ for you to buy a new dog enough?
What if i'm rich?
Can i go around town killing peoples dogs and steal bikes as long as i give reperations for it?
Maybe i could attempt to burgle your house and get caught... just to get away scot free by just returning all the stolen goods and buying a new lock for your house?
It's an obvious exploitable loophole.

Reparations fix something, but not everything. That's because the things they don't fix are that something happened, and there's nothing you can do about the past.

[aenri]

There are some people in world that, bluntly, cannot be allowed in functioning society. That is the main thing going for DP/life imprisonment. The main function of prison/DP here is elimination of said individual and protection of society from them. Retributive element is defining point of any sentence - punishment is harm done to you as a retribution for your actions in past.

There is fundamental philosophical difference here - what do you think the punishment (or sentence) should accomplish? Do you believe that every wrong deed must be punished? Or are you going for more utilitarian approach for the criminal - to affect his behaviour in future? Modern penology takes a bit from retribution, bit from prevention, and bit from rehabilitation.

As for rehabilitative function of prison - it doesn't work for many prisoners (and even in systems that are not that fucked up as in US). Then there is problem of what to do with such people. If the crime was something less significant, then the society is happy just with prevention of said crime for the time of prison sentence. But if the crime was significant you cannot really let such people go free.

As for judicial errors, there is appelate system in place just for this possibility. It is not perfect, but then nothing is.

[Tack]

Economically, the death penalty is worse than lifetime slavery.

[LordSlowpoke]

while giving the system an incentive for making people into literal slaves is worse for society than the alternative

[Il Palazzo]

As for rehabilitative function of prison - it doesn't work for many prisoners (and even in systems that are not that fucked up as in US). Then there is problem of what to do with such people. If the crime was something less significant, then the society is happy just with prevention of said crime for the time of prison sentence. But if the crime was significant you cannot really let such people go free.

Weeeeell...

because the Norwegian penal system has no death penalty or life terms and a maximum sentence of just 21 years, Norwegian society is forced to confront the fact that most prisoners, however heinous their crimes, will one day be released back into society. As a result by far the most significant statistic for Nilsen and Norway's law-abiding citizens is that of reoffending rates.

It's an interesting read altogether. Just be sure to take any numbers you find in the article with a grain of salt - it is Daily Mail, after all.

[martinuzz]

The death penalty is one of the reasons a lot of western European people have trouble percieving the US as a 'civilized country'. The death penalty is a very barbaric punishment.
Good thing there's a lot of Americans who themselves are against it. It gives hope that one day America will be civilized as well.

“The death penalty can be tolerated only by extreme statist reactionaries  who demand a state that is so powerful that it has the right to kill.”-Noam Chomsky

[Leafsnail]

The maximum guaranteed sentence in Norway is 21 years, but that just means they have to review your sentence once in a while.  Realistically mass murderers/serial killers aren't ever going to get out.

That article is interesting and surprisingly progressive though.  I can definitely see the existence of prisons like that as a powerful incentive for prisoners to behave well and sort out their lives.