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[Zangi]

All those people.  If you save them, they will be your responsibility.

[Autohummer]

One of the things people sprayed on the Legislative Council when they broke in three months ago is that what the PRC is doing to the Uighur Muslims will not go unpunished. So, at lease some of the people here cares, I think.

Earlier today, a secondary 5 (equivalent to Grade 11 or Year 12) boy was shot by the police with live ammunition. It hit squarely at the chest and he is now in hospital. Doctors say the bullet was 3cm away from hitting his heart. The bullet has been extracted and he is currently staying in ICU.

There will be a reckoning. I don't know from which side or in what form, but now that someone has been shot with a lethal weapon, the protesters are not going to just let this slide. Meanwhile, even if the police as a whole try not to use lethal force, increased aggression from protesters mean that they will be forced to. From here on, the violence is just going to get worse and the emotions more explosive.

A few posts and months ago, police firing live rounds at the sky as warning was something that shocked people like me. Now it has become routine. Today, that escalates into actually aiming and shooting with intent to kill. Meanwhile, protests have stepped up. When this all began, molotovs existed only in rumours, now they are used in every confrontation. Two months ago there was no breaking and looting of shops. Today Chinese-funded or owned shops and store-chains are targeted for attacks, though protesters do call out for each other not to take away anything, who can really say for sure that everyone was so well self-disciplined?

With people on both sides getting more radical, it is increasingly dangerous to openly show your views. Being neutral is perhaps worst you can be, since that draws the ire of both sides. My mother and sister shout at my father every day because they think he is not pro democracy enough, thus he is pro-Beijing. Meanwhile his secondary school friends accuse him of being a traitor to Hong Kong and China because he wasn't shouting down pro-democracy protesters hard enough. Every friend group I know have split along political lines. I am fortunate enough to hold my personal friends together, but I fear if they would confront one another over their allegiance. A friend has already broken down over the stress of recent events but his coworkers keep on pressing him to follow it, resulting in angry outbursts. I guess this is how it felt in Northern Ireland back during the Troubles or Weimar Germany with Freikorps of all shapes and sizes wandering about.

For the record, if you asked me which side of this I am on, I am moderately pro-democracy, but in practice, I am one of the much-reviled neutrals. To begin, the PRC is clearly not a government built for the benefit of its people, to bow and become its subjects is a poor gamble at best. I think it is certainly better if Hong Kong has more political freedom and rights than it currently has, especially when given the fact that the government forced upon us by the PRC is corny, ignorant, apathetic and incompetent. However, I doubt if the people are able to host their own elections even in a fantasy scenario of the PRC suddenly withdrawing all its politicking from Hong Kong. A people so used to being obedient colonial subjects needs a lot of education to become responsible voters and, if the history of decolonisation in Africa is anything to go by, suddenly giving a population living undemocratic rule democracy is not going to end well. However, you won't find me joining any protests that isn't strictly legal, nor would I try to spread words and evangelise. I have my own personal reasons, which are very complicated and irrelevant to the current political situation, that has led me to hate Hong Kong very deeply long before even the Umbrella Movement, so now I don't feel very inclined to help any one side. People who know me for long understand this and leave me alone. I hope people who are more motivated but don't know me won't come across this post and try to doxx me or something. Even if they did, it probably isn't going to change my stance much.

[Zangi]

So, I hear the mainland is shipping in folks to help quell the protests.

[feelotraveller]

So, yeah, Blizzard did a thing after a pro-player expressed support for the protests in Hong Kong. A bunch of people are upset (count me in).

https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/20904433/blizzard-hong-kong-hearthstone-blitzchung

Seemed relevant to post here, particularly after the NBA has also engaged in some shenanigans over the last couple of days.

[thompson]

So, I hear the mainland is shipping in folks to help quell the protests.

China is in a real predicament here. Unlike Tibet and Muslims people in the West actually care about Hong Kong, and any police violence will receive widespread media coverage. It's hard to see China escalating to routine use of lethal force without serious sanctions being imposed.

On the other hand, the protests appear revolutionary in nature and well and truly beyond what can be handled with non-lethal force. So what do they do? Sit and wait is probably the smartest approach, which is mostly what they are doing. Hong Kong self-immolating doesn't really hurt the PRC so long as they don't get too directly involved. In my view, the PRC won't escalate this to the next level. Either the HK police do it, or some more radical elements of the protest movement arm themselves somehow and do it.

As for Blizzard, I feel a boycott is in order. I'd make a "Peninsula Defense" Starcraft map, but haven't  time. Some mix of Tower defense and DotA would be good. Originality doesn't really matter as it's just about giving Blizzard the finger.

[Zangi]

I can see the PRC just waiting for the HK protesters doing something outlandish/'revolutionary' enough before they really come down with the hammer.

I have a feeling any sort of sports association just really wants their players to focus on the game, rather then bringing the dumpster fire that is 'politics' in.

[Autohummer]

So, I hear the mainland is shipping in folks to help quell the protests.

This rumour has been floating around since day 1. Some even claim the riot police have been reinforced with their counterparts from mainland, and mainlanders have dressed up as protesters and were responsible for ruining all the MTR stations last week.

So, yeah, Blizzard did a thing after a pro-player expressed support for the protests in Hong Kong. A bunch of people are upset (count me in).

https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/20904433/blizzard-hong-kong-hearthstone-blitzchung

Seemed relevant to post here, particularly after the NBA has also engaged in some shenanigans over the last couple of days.

I haven't played a Blizzard game, but my friends have been refunding Warcraft 3 (or something like that) because of this.

So, I hear the mainland is shipping in folks to help quell the protests.

China is in a real predicament here. Unlike Tibet and Muslims people in the West actually care about Hong Kong, and any police violence will receive widespread media coverage. It's hard to see China escalating to routine use of lethal force without serious sanctions being imposed.

On the other hand, the protests appear revolutionary in nature and well and truly beyond what can be handled with non-lethal force. So what do they do? Sit and wait is probably the smartest approach, which is mostly what they are doing. Hong Kong self-immolating doesn't really hurt the PRC so long as they don't get too directly involved. In my view, the PRC won't escalate this to the next level. Either the HK police do it, or some more radical elements of the protest movement arm themselves somehow and do it.

As for Blizzard, I feel a boycott is in order. I'd make a "Peninsula Defense" Starcraft map, but haven't  time. Some mix of Tower defense and DotA would be good. Originality doesn't really matter as it's just about giving Blizzard the finger.

I can see the PRC just waiting for the HK protesters doing something outlandish/'revolutionary' enough before they really come down with the hammer.

I have a feeling any sort of sports association just really wants their players to focus on the game, rather then bringing the dumpster fire that is 'politics' in.

The latest round of protests came about with higher intensity because Carrie Lam used emergency powers to enact an anti-mask law. Somehow, Carrie Lam claims that although emergency powers have been used, there isn't actually an emergency in Hong Kong. The problem here is that she didn't have to do this if she just wanted to wait for the protests burn out. In fact, the protests have been kind of winding down just before she made that decision, so she more or less doused the fire with petrol for no discernible reason. People are saying that instead of waiting it out, the government/PRC is trying to escalate this to the point they can justify sending in armed police or the PLA from the mainland. Also, since emergency powers have been used, people are all trying to change their HKD into USD, as there is a possibility that the currency peg would collapse and/or capital controls would be introduced.

[Trolldefender99]

Well, not sure if this actually qualifies for east asia or not. It isn't really east asia to me, but maybe its considered it. To me its more central asia. In any case. This thread is closest.

But the amount of global warming and pollution must be skyrocketing because of this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50280390

That is more pollution than europe and US combined if you take account other factors like trash and what not (india contributes a ton to ocean pollution, along with china), but for the smog... that is insane. If that isn't a massive contributer to climate change, then nothing is. That is worse than even Beijing (which was already really bad and contributing a lot to climate change), that is crazy. But also incredibly sad for there is going to be so many health problems there, long term health issues and what about all the animals and wildlife?

[Il Palazzo]

If that isn't a massive contributer to climate change, then nothing is.

Only the CO2 component of smog contributes. The main harmful component - the particulate matter - reflects sunlight, slowing down greenhouse effect for as long as it stays in the air. The presence of smog does not mean that CO2 emissions are high, or vice versa.

That is more pollution than europe and US combined

How do you know this? The article provides no numbers to make any meaningful comparisons.

[Trolldefender99]

If that isn't a massive contributer to climate change, then nothing is.

Only the CO2 component of smog contributes. The main harmful component - the particulate matter - reflects sunlight, slowing down greenhouse effect for as long as it stays in the air. The presence of smog does not mean that CO2 emissions are high, or vice versa.

That is more pollution than europe and US combined

How do you know this? The article provides no numbers to make any meaningful comparisons.

For first one, it IS harmful. If it wasn't, then why would they give masks?

it even says in this other article its "dangerous smog".

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-india-50266463/delhi-choked-by-dangerous-smog

A lot of it is because of burning for farms, burning land and fires in general creates toxic chemicals in the air. That contributes to the pollution on earth. Though in the burning of land that is carbon dioxide, but that is a ton of carbon dioxide being created. Which then is a greenhouse environment effect

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zt6sfg8/revision/2

For second one. I took into account that is just one single city. India like china in general contributes a TON to ocean pollution and overall polution in the air. I'm about to go, but both in india and china there are some really polluted rivers that lead into the ocean.

But I'm guessing you didn't read the article I originally posted about the smog because you are a trump anti-climater

Because its right here in the article I originally posted

"What's caused the pollution?
A major factor behind the high pollution levels at this time of year is farmers in neighbouring states burning crop stubble to clear their fields."

Burning crops=carbon dioxide=greenhouse effect=contributes to climate change

I didn't think anti-climaters/trump supporters were allowed on the forum. Because otherwise its weird you are questioning BBC's own article about the dangerous smog which does have an effect on the overall environment on earth. You may not like it and choose to blindly ignore it, but what one single city does can effect the whole planet. How does one not believe that a city with so much dangerous smog not effect the whole planet in some way or another? What one does contributes to the environment. Throw trash out a window or not dealt with properly, one single cup or a single plastic starw effects the environment

Disgusting one thinks that climate change isn't a thing and that a city with so much pollution isn't contributing a lot to it, or at least a portion of adding more toxic chemicals to the atmosphere.

(edit: But maybe I misunderstood the post. Because it seemed like it was questioning BBCs own article where they even state a lot of it was burning for farm land. And burning does create carbon dioxide, which then has a greenhouse effect which is then part of climate change. If so sorry, its just I already was agitated when I had to deal with my grandma ranting how climate change isn't real and india's pollution is fake news, but that isn't true at all because it effects everything and there are even videos showing how bad it is. They even say its dangerous/toxic smog a lot from burning farms...so....how does that not effect the climate I have no idea how someone would ignore that. But maybe I misunderstood, plus not the best mood after my grandma ranting at me. Sorry if I came off aggressive and misunderstood.

[Il Palazzo]

Calm down, take a step back, and read what I actually wrote instead of throwing wild accusations.

[Trolldefender99]

Calm down, take a step back, and read what I actually wrote instead of throwing wild accusations.

Well I did add this post-edit. I'll copy/paste.

(edit: But maybe I misunderstood the post. Because it seemed like it was questioning BBCs own article where they even state a lot of it was burning for farm land. And burning does create carbon dioxide, which then has a greenhouse effect which is then part of climate change. If so sorry, its just I already was agitated when I had to deal with my grandma ranting how climate change isn't real and india's pollution is fake news, but that isn't true at all because it effects everything and there are even videos showing how bad it is. They even say its dangerous/toxic smog a lot from burning farms...so....how does that not effect the climate I have no idea how someone would ignore that. But maybe I misunderstood, plus not the best mood after my grandma ranting at me. Sorry if I came off aggressive and misunderstood.

But its still weird you ignored the part in BBCs own article that a lot of it is for burning land for farms. Does that not create climate change for you and effect the climate? Carbon dioxide effects the climate, BBC even says so. And it says dangerous smog, which means its dangerous not just to humans but the very planet. What affects one city/area/region effects everything, because everything on earth is tied together in some way. Like if amazon rainforest gets destroyed, that will effect the entire planet. Not just that particular region.

As for more pollution than US/europe, well that one city has more smog than beijing which already has more dangerous smog than most cities in europe and US which doesn't really get that problem. Now imagine the entire nation not dealing with pollution, china/india combined at very least, definitely contribute more than any other nation. There needs to be something done to convince them to deal with their pollution and trash, but a lot of people don't seem to want to make china mad. Was disappointing china specifically was left out of countries being taxed, when they contribute a ton to pollution and the environment more than most nations. India isn't much better. At this rate, there'll be entire deadzones and no one does anything maybe because they don't want to make china angry. India though I'll concede seems to want to curb the pollution, but the smog shows there is a ton of work to do.

There is more to pollution and destroying earth than CO2, there are tons of chemicals, trash, carbon dioxide etc that also effect the earth.

[Trolldefender99]

Sorry if I came off aggressive. Re-reading it, it seems like you were mostly asking a question and not actually a question in a manner that would be against it. Though the amount of carbon dioxide to create that much smog (plus whatever other sources there are) must be a lot of fires burning. That does effect the whole earth.

[Reelya]

Let's go back to the point. You said "That is more pollution than Europe and US combined". Then Il Palazzo merely pointed out, you've apparently just made that fact up yourself, since the article doesn't contain that specific claim whatsoever. This particular claim and any link to global warming isn't contained in the article whatsoever.

~~~

Also a key point in the article is that the smog is due to farmers burning stubble from their fields. The CO2 from the stubble comes from plants pulling in atmospheric CO2, so this activity cannot by itself increase atmospheric CO2 above baseline. It's like saying that if you drink river water then piss in the river you're going to raise the water level of the river.

[scourge728]

Let's go back to the point. You said "That is more pollution than Europe and US combined"

Then Il Palazzo merely pointed out, you've apparently just made that fact up yourself, since the article doesn't contain that specific claim whatsoever. This particular claim and any link to global warming isn't contained in the article whatsoever.

Also a key point in the article is that the smog is due to farmers burning stubble from their fields. The CO2 from the stubble comes from plants pulling in atmospheric CO2, so this activity cannot by itself increase atmospheric CO2 above baseline. It's like saying that if you drink river water then piss in the river you're going to raise the water level of the river.

except instead of the co2 being in the plants, it's in the air