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[Lagslayer]

murder

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

More like this:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2017/04/10/blogs/photography-pulitzer-recognizes-aftermath-of-violence-in-the-philippines/s/10-lens-p-slide-RMSV.html
Warning contains many dead people.

Are you implying the police did the drive-by killings?

[Wolfhunter107]

murder

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

>drug cartels keep murdering people
>"You're not allowed to kill them! That's wrong!"

>unstable drug addicts keep supporting them
>"They're not criminals!"

When the police just up and kill somebody, criminal or, then yes, it is called murder.

[Neonivek]

There is kind of a reason why first world countries frown upon the idea of special government sanctioned hit squads against their own citizens and on their own soil.

I mean even China disbanded its secret police.

[Lagslayer]

When the police just up and kill somebody, criminal or, then yes, it is called murder.

Could you provide some specific examples, preferably as closely related to the immediate topic? The whole "just up and kill somebody" rhetoric is too politically charged for me to take at face value.

There is kind of a reason why first world countries frown upon the idea of special government sanctioned hit squads against their own citizens and on their own soil.

I mean even China disbanded its secret police.

How could you know if secret police have really been disbanded? The whole point is that you DON'T know about them.

And while the people may frown on such things, the governments of even first world countries have their hit squads. Surely you don't think Seth Rich was killed by some random mugger.

edit: I would also like to point out that Duterte's approval rating is still up around 80%.

[Wolfhunter107]

When the police just up and kill somebody, criminal or, then yes, it is called murder.

Could you provide some specific examples, preferably as closely related to the immediate topic? The whole "just up and kill somebody" rhetoric is too politically charged for me to take at face value.

I don't have a single clue how you've not heard anything about the police killings, given how often stuff comes out about them, but here you go:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/02/philippines-police-plant-evidence-to-justify-killings-in-drug-war-says-report

http://www.dw.com/en/philippine-police-conducted-vigilante-killings-human-rights-watch-says/a-37777193

https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/03/01/license-kill/philippine-police-killings-dutertes-war-drugs

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-linked-to-killings-by-former-police-officer/

[/quote]

There is kind of a reason why first world countries frown upon the idea of special government sanctioned hit squads against their own citizens and on their own soil.

I mean even China disbanded its secret police.

How could you know if secret police have really been disbanded? The whole point is that you DON'T know about them.

And while the people may frown on such things, the governments of even first world countries have their hit squads. Surely you don't think Seth Rich was killed by some random mugger.

I find it very hard to take you seriously when you talk up a big game about sources and proof and then turn around and start pushing discredited conspiracy theories.

edit: I would also like to point out that Duterte's approval rating is still up around 80%.

Completely irrelevant. A well-liked murderer is still a murderer.

[Lagslayer]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/02/philippines-police-plant-evidence-to-justify-killings-in-drug-war-says-report

The "reports" are nothing but hearsay.

http://www.dw.com/en/philippine-police-conducted-vigilante-killings-human-rights-watch-says/a-37777193

Again, nothing but hearsay.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/03/01/license-kill/philippine-police-killings-dutertes-war-drugs

"Our investigations say-" SHOW US THE EVIDENCE!

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-linked-to-killings-by-former-police-officer/

"Corrupt cop from a family of drug pushers is against the war on drugs" No shit?

discredited conspiracy theories

Discredited? Discredited by who? HOW was it discredited?

Completely irrelevant. A well-liked murderer is still a murderer.

I thought you valued democracy.


I'm sorry, Wolfy, but this whole anti-Duerte thing just looks like a crazy conspiracy theory.

[smjjames]

@lagslayer: How about YOU show YOUR evidence supporting what you're arguing.

Really though, this argument looks like it's about to spiral out of control because there's just no amount of arguing at conspiracy theorists that they're wrong.

[Baffler]

"Discredited."

I am in agreement though. If the courts really were failing to control the murderous smugglers, corruption, and Islamic terrorism, I can ken to the idea of going around the system. He wouldn't be the first. That, and it looks like despite empowering vigilantes and there being some shadiness with due process going on Duterte is actually solving the problem. He purged the police of corrupt officers and later did the same to the penitentiary, and by official reports (everyone else seems to avoid the issue) has greatly reduced both the supply and demand for narcotics. Better this than the Philippines becoming a Mexico-tier dumpster where criminal gangs have free rein over large parts of the country, and considering his approval rating it seems most Filipinos agree.

[Wolfhunter107]

Of course, there's no way that the same officials involved in planting evidence would ever falsify reports.

I'm disappointed, Baffler. You seemed like you'd be better than to endorse state-sanctioned murder.

[Lagslayer]

Of course, there's no way that the same officials involved in planting evidence would ever falsify reports.

I'm disappointed, Baffler. You seemed like you'd be better than to endorse state-sanctioned murder.

You dun fucked up, now.

[Wolfhunter107]

Of course, there's no way that the same officials involved in planting evidence would ever falsify reports.

I'm disappointed, Baffler. You seemed like you'd be better than to endorse state-sanctioned murder.

You dun fucked up, now.

Your point?



Edit: Lagslayer's pretty obviously trolling and I'm starting to let my temper get the better of me, so I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

[redwallzyl]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/world/asia/philippines-police-south-korean-killing.html

its almost like giving a bunch of people the power to go around killing anyone they please inevitably becomes super corrupt. whoda thunk it?

If you think all those people they murder are guilty your kidding yourself.

[Azzuro]

I would just like to ask one question: Lagslayer, are you Pinoy and currently living in the Philippines?

[martinuzz]

Meanwhile in Marawi, government forces still have not been able to recapture the city, after nearly 9 days of battle.
Despite the use of heavy arms -the city has even been bombarded from the air-, the black IS flag still stands.
Amongst the insurgents aren't just Philippino insurgents, Chechens and Arabs have also been identified partaking in the battle.

Civilians have been exectued, and christians are reportedly being used as human shields.
Tens of thousands of inhabitants have fled the city.

Terrorism expert at  S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore, Rohan Gunaratna says "As IS is losing more and more territory in Syria and Iraq, the organisation is spreading it's wings. One of the territories they see opportunities is south-east Asia, with the Philippines as center of gravity. Over the past few years we have seen a trend of small militant groups joining forces under the flag of IS. One of the very first people to swear allegiance to IS, when al Bagdadi proclaimed the foundation of the Caliphate, was Isnilon Hapilon (the IS leader whose attempted arrest triggered the current siege of Marawi). Last year he was appointed emir of south east Asia, by IS. Next to that, he has really close ties to Abu Sayyaf. He used to be a very important commander for that organisation. While formally, Abu Sayyaf has not yet sworn allegiance to IS, in practice, when Abu Sayyaf fighters get home, they turn on their telephones and watch IS videos".

In recent editions of Rumiya (a monthly magazine by IS published in multiple languages), actions of IS-fighters against the 'Philippino crusader army' were highlighted.
Last summer, a video was posted of heavily armed men on Mindanao. They formed a cricle, joined hands, and proclaimed allegiance to IS. A bit later, a Malaysian fighter calls upon the viewers to come to the Philippines, if they are unable to get to the Middle East. He then joins with two other fighters and decapitates 3 christians.

According to Gunaratna, the Phillipines have always been a hotspot for extremist. They came there to train mostly, but it seems that they have now really chosen Mindanao as the epicentre of battle in south east Asia. Their goal is to proclaim wilaya on the Philippines, making it a province of the Caliphate, as has happened in Libya and in Saudi Arabia. Achieving that would be a major victory for extremism

"At this point IS already controls some parts of Mindanao. The army needs to strike back fast. If IS can further expand it's territory, it will become ever harder to dismantle", Gunaratna continues, "and the Philippines cannot do that alone. But that is a sensitive issue. The West will not be very eager to assist Duterte, being horrified by the way he wages war on drugs."

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/nu-is-terrein-verliest-in-syrie-en-irak-richt-het-zijn-vizier-op-zuidoost-azie~a4498683/

[Reelya]

I can see China stepping in here. The way they could get neighboring nations to turn a blind eye to the South China Sea stuff is by creating a Pax China arrangement that benefits those other nations.