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[Meph]

Hey, everyone. Most of you know me, for those who do not: I am the author of the Masterwork DF Mod, or short MDF.

Lately the biggest addition to it have been two new playable races, and to continue that line I plan to introduce humans as a new race to play as. Two interesting points became clear soon:

1. People have different interpretations of what vanilla humans represent. Some say western medieval times, while others point to "no steel" and count them more towards mediterrean civs like Greek, using bronze and copper heavily, while others say that they are reminded of turkish/arabic areas, with turbans and scimitars.

2. People like to import real-life civs into DF. Seeing that japanese/samurai mod in works, the thread about vikings and atztec dwarves and the positive feedback I got when I proposed medieval castle/knights/guilds as theme... all that tells me that several different people want to see several different RL civs in the game.

That gave me this idea: I will write a playable human race template. It will consist of everything anyone needs. I will add several generic new workshops for them, and continue to develope them further towards "western medieval humans". But at some point that template will be copied and any RL race could be imprinted on it.

If the sprites (creature graphics) are changed, the noble names, the language file, the weapons/armor/clothing, and 2-3 specific workshops... then you get a completely different feeling. I will add the westerners into my mod as the default human race, but players could freely add/remove civs as allies, enemies or thieves, with different timings, materials and combat skills. (as is the current norm in MDF, this can be done to all included races.)

Now comes the important part: Does anyone have an interest in this? Anyone that wants to contribute ideas, historical facts, complete raws ? (or wants to write a civ himself?)

I myself will write the Westerners. I will create the template to work with (with clear naming schemes, before anyone asks ) and will do 5 civs myself, creature, entity, sprites, items and 2-3 unique buildings. I estimate one day (or 12h) of work per civ that way. Obviously it will be much more varied if more civs will be created, or if a dedicated modder improves on his favourite type.

I also plan to heavily borrow from already done mods that go into this direction (why reinvent the wheel...) so expect a long list of credits and PMs going around. I will start this project in probably 5-6 weeks from now. I am currently still travelling, but somehow got into a strange mood and wanted to write this.

So, let me know what you guys think.

Current Suggestions:

Template Civ
- Vanilla DF nobles.
- Vanilla DF human creature.
- Improved basic workshops (simple crafting)
- Merchants from all other races.
- Rather Neutral ethics.
- Heavy Malus from cave adaption. (should be aboveground)
- A few workshops that hook into dfhack, like an Embassy.
- A few workshops that are basic MDF things, like the Sawmill, Brewery and Slaughterhouse.
- A few skill-training workshops.
- A library (maybe)
- A bank, to store/exchange money that is used for the custom merchants.
- A few culinary workshops, bakery, artisan cheesemaker, etc.

Westerners
- Medieval britons/french/germans.
- Halberds, axes, swords, long bows, crossbows.
- Leather, Chain and heavy metal armor.
- Guilds as basis for different industries.
- Muskets and Cannon Siege Engines.
- English language.
- Nobles named King, Duke, etc. (vanilla df)
- Phoebus Human Sprites.
- Unique workshops: Guilds, Cannon Engineer, Knight Headquarters.

Atztecs/Inca/Maya: Amerindian
- Meso/Latinamerican civs.
- Macuhautlis, spears, bows, obsidian daggers.
- Mostly leather armors.
- Improved agility and tantrum resistance.
- ? language.
- Nobles named ?
- Need new sprite set.
- Unique workshops: Sacrificial Altar, Sun temple, Football field.
- Sacrifical Altar because of maya/atztec human sacrifice, could give boosts or summon special pets.
- Sun temple to control the weather.
- Football field: Atztecs had a game similar to it, I just have to look up the name. Used for training, mostly agility.

Easterners
- Arabs/Ottoman Empire/Moorish civs
- Scimitars and adv. crossbows, spears and hooked arrows.
- Turbans, Sandals, Kaftans... and lots of chainmail.
- High medical skills.
- Arabic language.
- Nobles called Sultan, Grand Vezir, etc.
- Sprites from deons haradrim (or easterners from old genesis)
- Unique workshops: Mud-brick oven, hammams, mosques.
- Mud-bricks for easy, aboveground constructions without mining.
- Hammams to lower risk of infection and give good thought.
- Mosques give AOE positive effects. (I just know that someone will complain about this)

Asians
- Japanese/Korean/Chinese influences.
- Katanas, Wakisashis, short bows, staves... tons of weapons from this theme.
- Samurai armor, lots of improved leather armors as well.
- Very good steel making industry.
- High learn rates for combat skills (Martial Arts?)
- Nobles called Shogun, etc. RL japanese titles.
- Sprites ?
- Unique workshops: Dojo, Jade Dragon Temple, Shaolin Monestary
- The dojo could train civilians quickly in combat skills.
- Jade dragon temple creates actual dragons made of jade. Kamis...
- The monastery could transform civilians into monks: No labors, but high combat skills.

Southerners
- Greek/Roman style civ.
- Gladius and Javelins, bows, tritons, nets.
- Good metal armor, exceptional shields.
- Togas and sandals.
- Latin/Greek language file
- Sprites ?
- Nobles called Caesar, Principe, etc. RL roman empire titles.
- Better traders than other civs.
- Unique workshops: Forum, Minotaurus Labyrinth, Artisans
- Forum could tax tradegoods for extra gold income.
- Labyrinth used to dispose captured invaders, might spawn a minotaurus lategame?
- Artisans create high value tradegoods.

Please keep in mind that all these are made-up ideas, on the fly while I wrote this post. With some research I am sure this list can be much improved. Other ideas for civs were Northeners (Vikings/Germanic/Celtic), Red Indians (Cherokee/Apachees/etc), African Tribes (tons of them), Central-Asian (Persian to Hindu/Mughal) and Steppe-people (Mongolian Horde).

And now: Let the discussion begin.

[MDFification]

I think this is a neat idea, although the introduction of procedurally generated varied cultures in future releases will eventually rneder it obsolete.
Have you considered doing and Egyptian/Nubian/Ethiopian themed civ? Shotels, Kopeshes, Masks... it'd be a good addition.

[Roses]

Personally I would be more interested in seeing some more variation in non-playable civs. It feels like every time I start a game it doesn't really matter who the other civs available are. But I am perfectly fine playing as Dwarfs, so I understand if people want a different style of playing.

[Stronghammer]

I would be happy to contribute knowledge (university history for the win) as well i would love to help with a northerner group or the westerner. I also would like to contribute to the whole banking system. Any ways feel free to message me as I just would like to help this project.

[Deon]

As you know Genesis already has Nords and Dalesmen representing nordic/european nations. Dherim are desert nomads/slavers representing ancient Persia/mid-eastern civ and kensari have a steppe nomad feel.

So as I see I totally support the idea, however I think that not all of civs must be humans. If you remember, in my Old Genesis orcs were a good samurai-styled race with japanese-like custom language, and it kinda worked. As long as people don't get offended that I've decided to make a nation of non-humans with a similar wibe to their own nation .

P.S. What I meant to say is that you can use nord/dherim tiles and I can shape up another tileset if you need.

[Meph]

Deon, I had similar thoughts. The mdf orcs are a bit indian, maya, japanese, atztek... Smakemupagus mixed all kinds into them.

And the kobolds also have an indian touch, with sweatlidges and shamans.

Currently I am thinking about 4 human types:
Northerner (Viking Celtic)
Easterner (Arab Persian)
Southerner (Roman Greek)
Westerner (Brits Frech German)

That would fit DF well with one active season each, and means that its less work, but more details per race. And thanks for the Genesis sprites

[StupidElves]

I'll be keeping an eye on this mod, when the raws are done I'll edit them up for varied Elves, Kobolds, Goblins, and Dwarves due to me wanting more variance in general.

Perhaps you could make it to where the different civs have spheres? And that could help with the amount of work needed. Like the Asian civ would have an Asian Sphere that gives the Asian civ the katanas, martial arts, etc.

[Deon]

There's no asian sphere in DF.

[StupidElves]

I know that, I meant making yer own spheres for the use of the mod.

[Deon]

What I meant is that it's impossible to make spheres, they are hardcoded.

[StupidElves]

Right, well. I am extremely new to modding so forgive my ignorance.

[Aydrean]

I would love to see human playable civs in Masterwork and the list you've made seems like it has a healthy amount of variety.The dynamics between the human civs will also be interesting for gameplay, and the separate tile sets is a must-have for me.

[Deon]

Tilesets won't ever be an issue because I am here to support .

Currently Meph is busy with his travelling stuff but once he returns we will start working on it!

[Meph]

Deon, you scare me. Why is there a Warhammer Chaos star and the words of khorne? Are you doing a Warhammer mod? ^^

And yeah, I am freezing my ass of atm, hiding from a thunderstorm in Spain. No modding till mid june or so.

And I assume you mean creature sprites, and not tilesets for the humans

[Zorbeltuss]

The Asian civ just seems wrong, the Japanese culture and warfare was widely different from the Chinese or Korean and neither had that good steel to be honest, although China imported damascus steel from the IRL eastern civs, which is arguably the best steel until more modern times and a bit longer than that,  I'd say that four civs are good to have for the asians.

Island Asians
- Japanese/Ryukyu/Hokkaido influences.
- Katanas, Wakisashis, Ōdachis, short bows, Kama, Kusarigama, Naginata... all with thinner blade and therefore less contact area.
- Samurai armor, many masks a few cloth armors and paper hats.
- Low steel quality
- Nobles called Shogun, etc. RL japanese titles.
- Sprites ?
- Unique workshops: Dojo, Shrine
- The dojo could train civilians quickly in combat skills.
- The Shrine could help summon Kami or if desecrated Oni, Oni have higher chance of showing up though

Eastern Asians
-Chinese/Korean Influences (considering the amount of different dynasties and such this has more information to draw from instead of less)
-Dao, Dadao, Butterfly Swords, Dagger axe, Spear, Hand cannons, Repeating crossbows are weapons wielded by hand, a new siege weapon might be possible firing rocket spears and/or incendiary rockets, incendiary traps.
-Leather armor, Ceremonial stone scale, Shock hardening scale armor (Mountain scale, allows more under it than a  normal flexible armor but does not have the flexible weakness), Wood cloth armor (probably impossible to make in the game but can be faked).
-Nobles: The Emperor which is succeeded by relatives, an advisor which is succeeded by one of three nobility trees, Eunuchs, Temples and Bureaucrats
-Lowish Quality Steel, usually uses bronze for firearms
-Unique Buildings: Dragon pagoda, Shaolin monastery
- Dragon pagoda creates actual dragons made of jade.
- The monastery could transform civilians into monks: No labors, but high combat skills.
-Also Eunuchs!

A good idea would be to have  indochina, india and steppe asian as different civs too.

Edit: This is definitely a post of interest. Forgot to add that though.

/Zorbeltuss