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[getter77]

Challenging d20 roots isn't inherently a bad thing---welcome to all manner of homebrew campaigns and smudging of rules!

As far as money goes(silver standard sounds interesting)---I'm aware of pretty well no cRPG or anything else that hasn't had an ultimately broken and prone to collapse at the slightest breath economy...especially towards any given mid-end game.  Given an aim of Veins to eventually be fit for adventuring in the seldom approached realm of high level content---maybe reckon something akin to a bartering/quest-based/writ n' contract economy that stands a better chance of organically scaling than numbers inflation madness?  Path of Exile is doing decent'ish on this front on the ARPG side of things that is no better than turn-based historically, if not even worse really, though that one is 99% reckoned and enmeshed within crafting as the end-all, be-all driving means to an end.

[Retropunch]

While you're playing beta 6, I'm brainstorming stuff for the next release, including:

• ASCII mode improvements
• changing prices so that the game operates on a silver standard instead of gold standard
• introducing a parry bonus such as in Incursion
• body parts system and the effects of hitting them
• adding weight to money and banks you could deposit it in
• using a defense roll instead of static AC

Some of the changes proposed are a pretty radical change compared to the game's d20 roots, so I would like some opinions.

I don't think there's any harm from deviating, but there is some merit in being a roguelike that sticks to d20 rules. I don't know any others that do.

As far as your suggestions go, I completely agree with getter77 that economy is difficult. I personally like collecting gold rather than bartering, but it needs to be carefully managed. I think the best way to do this is to go down the Baldurs Gate route where most things don't sell for much, but cost a lot to buy. Only things that are of actual consequence are worth selling, and that's because there's an actual trade off.

Adding weight to money is normally annoying I find, especially as it tends to be the one thing that you can drop in increments. Lets say your burden weight is 25.5, and you're at 24.0 and want to pick up a 1.6 weight sword, you then have to go in and drop enough gold to pick that up (and so on).

Body part systems are good, but that leaves you open to a lot of things that can quickly become annoying (head criticals, wandering around with a broken arm you can't fix) unless you balance them really well. I think it's a great way to go, but I'd urge caution as it's a huge undertaking.

Parrying sounds good though, although I personally prefer static AC.

[getter77]

I should say that gold or silver wouldn't be missing from this barter-heavy notion in my head---just moreso it as a perhaps potent component of deals and questing at times than a sole means of purchasing anything at all.   Doing a favor/quest for a Jeweler could net you 1 bag of Gold alongside a custom ring or amulet---perhaps said portion of gold could then be used to settle a dispute at the tavern to ingratiate yourself to the patrons and boost your local standing...or perhaps it would be especially sought after by the town Alchemist for the obvious reason...or perhaps you sacrifice both at a Temple Altar for greater divine favor...or you can take the gold and ring/amulet to be melted down into a ceremonial dagger at the local Blacksmith for other potential purposes/uses/quests/etc.

Because the gold is then a trade item itself, outside of results that have it somehow destroyed or greatly changed, there exists the possibility to reacquire it anew with further questing and dealings.

[Zireael]

I don't think there's any harm from deviating, but there is some merit in being a roguelike that sticks to d20 rules. I don't know any others that do.

Incursion sticks to d20, too.
And as much as I love bare-bones d20, it does have its flaws.

Getter, you might be interested in the fact that I have had barter jotted down in my notes for several months now, and the main reason it's not yet in is because I can't figure out how to change the UI accordingly.

[Retropunch]

I don't think there's any harm from deviating, but there is some merit in being a roguelike that sticks to d20 rules. I don't know any others that do.

Incursion sticks to d20, too.
And as much as I love bare-bones d20, it does have its flaws.

Well, I meant in terms of other than Incursion (as that's not in very active development) and VotE is the definite successor.

I completely agree it has it's flaws, and I don't think there's any harm in deviating. If you keep it close enough so you could have a paragraph explaining the differences, then it could still be 'closely based on d20' which I think is a draw to people familiar to that setting.

[Zireael]

There's already a quite lengthy list of small changes and tweaks on github wiki (speaking of, I plan to create a wikidot site as soon as I have some free time). So I think the list would simply get longer

The coins weights and body parts ideas came from Forgotten Kingdoms MUD - an excellent d20-based MUD, which captures the spirit brilliantly in spite of using AD&D prices and coin weights and the aforementioned body parts system.

Speaking of wikidot, what would you like to see? A player on reddit was pretty persistent in demanding a blurb, so what else would you like to see?

[Zireael]

Beta 6 was released only three days ago, and I've already fixed some oversights. Castler has contributed a fix for the pseudo-ID and auto-ID not affecting worn items, and also reworked some talent dialogs.

All this means there will probably be a beta 6.1 before Oct 1.

[Zireael]

I have migrated all the stuff from the GitHub wiki to the new wikidot site.

http://veins-of-the-earth.wikidot.com

Tell me what else do you want to see on the wiki? Sample character builds? Worldmap description?

[Retropunch]

Tell me what else do you want to see on the wiki? Sample character builds? Worldmap description?

I think you definitely need a few beginner guides, as well as some easy sample character builds (the DCSS wiki has a number of these so it might be worth looking at those for inspiration).

I think a more in depth blurb explaining the game would be good, as well as an explanation of all the key mechanics.

Then just a general hints and tips section.

[hachnslay]

For people randomly stumbling onto your wiki - a way that connects it to the github, so they can actually get the game?

[guessingo]

When you say d20 you mean dungeons and dragons rules right? When i tried this and ncursion characters were similiar to neverwinter nights.

[Zireael]

When you say d20 you mean dungeons and dragons rules right? When i tried this and ncursion characters were similiar to neverwinter nights.

Yes, the similarity to NWN is not an accident

@ hachnslay: Good point, links added.

@Retropunch: Gonna add them today.

[Zireael]

I've fleshed out the User Guide part of the wiki: http://veins-of-the-earth.wikidot.com/help:_home

How do you like the character builds? Players have oft requested a 'default' button for character creation, so there's five builds to pick from. Which one do you want as default? Probably not the drow , but which one of the four appeals to you the most?

[Retropunch]

I've fleshed out the User Guide part of the wiki: http://veins-of-the-earth.wikidot.com/help:_home

How do you like the character builds? Players have oft requested a 'default' button for character creation, so there's five builds to pick from. Which one do you want as default? Probably not the drow , but which one of the four appeals to you the most?

Fighters are always the 'standard' so I'd go for that. Ideally, it's probably best to do one for each 'style' - Fighter, Caster, Rogue eventually.
I think the key to beginner guides is that EVERYTHING needs to be explained, even if it's a little bit obvious. Once the wiki becomes fleshed out with all the listed skills and things, stuff can be linked to, but until then I think it's important that you explain stuff thoroughly.

I wish I had time to contribute, and I will do when I do get time, but until then - keep up the good work!

[Zireael]

Thanks for the kind words, Retropunch! I'll admit I stole a look or two at Incursion's online manual and at DCSS wiki.

As for the variant rules discussed upthread (money weight among them), I've decided to make them game settings - that is, you'll be able to set them once when starting a game and they wouldn't be changeable later to avoid abuse. One of said settings will probably be difficulty level, implemented in a way similar to BG/NWN (a percentile change to player's hp/damage dished out).

By default all of those variant settings would be off. The first one to go in will probably be defensive roll (roll d20 instead of having a set base AC of 10) and piecemeal armor.

Piecemeal armor would later go hand-in-hand with body parts option. More options would include training (spawn trainers you have to find and pay to learn skills & feats) and spellbooks (learn spells from spellbooks like in Incursion instead of automagically).

***
Incursion-style parry bonus would go into the base game, as I think it's not controversial.
After a week of research, I've finally decided on using Runequest prices (Google "Runequest SRD" and "Open Quest") instead of d20 ones. That means we're moving to using a sp instead of a gp as a basic currency.