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Author Topic: Military for a new player  (Read 3109 times)

TheFreshPrince

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2014, 05:10:25 pm »

What exactly is meant by one squad with multiple orders of train 2 or train 3?

-Go to the military schedule, select your squad and month that you want for the training
-Give a new order, a new screen opens
-Select train, it will show something like "training, minimum 10 dwarves" (I'm not at my home computer at the moment, so I don't have the exact text)
-Use +/- to change it to 2 (or 3) dwarves for the minimum
-Accept the order.  You'll go back to the main schedule with "training 2 dwarves" (or whatever it says) for that month
-Give a new order again and set the new order to 2 (or 3) dwarves the same way as before
-Now, when you get back to the schedule screen, you'll have two lines of "training 2 dwarves"
-Repeat until you have 5 lines of "training 2 dwarves" (or 3 - 4 lines of "training 3 dwarves")

You don't have to repeat the whole process for every month.  You can select the multi-training month and (c)opy it, and then (p)aste the orders into any other month/squad.

Ok so I should make a squad of 10 dwarves, set them to train 2 or 3 at a time per month, every single month of the year?
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EvilBob22

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2014, 05:19:42 pm »

I usually do a 2 months on, 1 month off (or 1 month on, 2 months off) rotation.  That avoids the "tired of long patrol duty" thought -- although there was a bug where going off duty would not reset the long patrol duty counter.  It was fixed by dfhack in .34.x, I'm not sure the status in .40.x.  Another consideration is that going OFF duty will give a bad thought if they have no civilian skills.

A lot of people do keep them on duty all year round though, so feel free to do that.
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I will run the experiment to completion anyway, however. Even if the only reason why there is a punctured equilibrium in the fortress is because I have been brutally butchering babies
EDIT: I just remembered that dwarves can't equip halberds. That might explain why the squads that use them always die.

TheFreshPrince

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2014, 05:26:11 pm »

But if only two or three of a squad of ten are training at a given time, doesn't that mean 7 - 8 dwarves are being relatively useless?

Is it really not more efficient to make a bunch of small squads instead of one large one?
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Levi

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2014, 05:31:42 pm »

So how do you get new migrants, or trade, if you're constantly cut off from the outside world by goblin sieges?

If they come during a siege they usually get slaughtered.   :P Sieges don't usually last too long it seems.

Honestly I don't know how people manage to get a functioning military up so fast.  It takes forever for me to get things together to build steel armor, and any other armor seems to give no real protection. 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 05:34:07 pm by Levi »
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EvilBob22

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2014, 05:33:39 pm »

But if only two or three of a squad of ten are training at a given time, doesn't that mean 7 - 8 dwarves are being relatively useless?

Is it really not more efficient to make a bunch of small squads instead of one large one?
That is why you give multiple orders in one month.  Squad members 1 & 2 do the first train order, 3 & 4 do the second train order, etc.
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I will run the experiment to completion anyway, however. Even if the only reason why there is a punctured equilibrium in the fortress is because I have been brutally butchering babies
EDIT: I just remembered that dwarves can't equip halberds. That might explain why the squads that use them always die.

TheFreshPrince

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2014, 05:35:44 pm »

But if only two or three of a squad of ten are training at a given time, doesn't that mean 7 - 8 dwarves are being relatively useless?

Is it really not more efficient to make a bunch of small squads instead of one large one?
That is why you give multiple orders in one month.  Squad members 1 & 2 do the first train order, 3 & 4 do the second train order, etc.

Oh wow, I didn't know you could do that. How exactly do you do it? Did the other guy explain it and I'm just too dense to understand?
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EvilBob22

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2014, 05:40:23 pm »

Oh wow, I didn't know you could do that. How exactly do you do it? Did the other guy explain it and I'm just too dense to understand?

Follow those steps I posted before, that's how.
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I will run the experiment to completion anyway, however. Even if the only reason why there is a punctured equilibrium in the fortress is because I have been brutally butchering babies
EDIT: I just remembered that dwarves can't equip halberds. That might explain why the squads that use them always die.

TheFreshPrince

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2014, 05:55:28 pm »

Oh wow, I didn't know you could do that. How exactly do you do it? Did the other guy explain it and I'm just too dense to understand?

Follow those steps I posted before, that's how.

Oh haha that was you as well, apparently I was in fact too dense to understand. I don't have DF in front of me though, I'll try it later when I'm home.

Thanks again
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Urist McShire

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2014, 10:21:06 pm »

So how do you get new migrants, or trade, if you're constantly cut off from the outside world by goblin sieges?

If they come during a siege they usually get slaughtered.   :P Sieges don't usually last too long it seems.

Honestly I don't know how people manage to get a functioning military up so fast.  It takes forever for me to get things together to build steel armor, and any other armor seems to give no real protection.

If I can find iron on the map (and some form of coal if not embarking at a volcano) it usually takes me about 2-3 years before I am able to get a small military put up unless it's of absolute necessity. By that point I've got enough dwarves at home that I can keep the essential industries (food/cloth/booze/carpentry/masonry/crafting) running without requiring too much micromanagement and I'll have managed to put together a few layers of walls. Walls, gates, and underground surface crops are usually my primary defence when it comes to thwarting invaders. Waiting out sieges has always worked for me in the past until I've gotten a good military started up and (usually) danger room trained before switching to active guard and patrol duty.

Haven't really tried a copper-outfitted militia before, though, but it might be something I'm going to have to do considering I haven't found any iron ores yet on my current fortress map. Either that or I'll need to trade with my mountainhome's caravan for every bit of iron and steel I can get my hands on and melt it down.
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Skullsploder

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2014, 12:16:32 am »

An important consideration for your military is defensive design: dwarves are too stupid to fight in a cohesive unit, and so your squads often scatter and then get slowly killed 1 by 1, even if you have a good military set up.

Therefore it's a good idea to build your walls in such a way that there are lots of long, narrowish (3-5 tiles) choke points, with loads of blind corners. Oh and make sure the path for invaders doesn't have any branches they can run down off the main one.

When invaders come, wait until the main body of enemies is inside the path while mustering your military in a safe zone on the fortress end of the path. When they're all ready, lower the gate and give em a sation order at the other end of the path. That way, they'll have to charge, together and cohesively, through all the enemies to complete your station order.

Plus the glorious charge looks awesome.
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Urist McShire

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2014, 12:36:16 am »

I agree with Skullsploder on that point. I used that exact same tactic when I opened up the pits of FUN on one of my other fortresses. Gave myself a pop cap of ~400 and manually shoved about half of them into squads and full exquisite or better steel armour and weapons with at least fifty war dogs all assigned to them and stationed the whole army in a corridor before a blind corner. Foes came screaming up the corridors out from the deep and were instantly assailed by dozens of crossbowdwarves and many, many more melee wielders.

Using walls and bridges to funnel surface invaders into a desired (trap-lined) path is also a good tactic. If you've got the time and dwarf-power, roofing the entire path so flying enemies will have to land and charge from the ground makes it even more glorious.
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Verjigorm

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2014, 03:58:37 am »

Always have a series of draw bridges that can lockdown each entrance to your fortress.   This way you can release your military without exposing your interior.   Also, minimize entrances, and like the ones above me, use those entrance paths and bridges to channel your foes into the places you want them to go.   Dwarves do a much better job at fighting when there's lots of dwarves and less of the enemy. 

I generally always embark with a proficient weaponsmith and armorsmith, as well as a stack of tetrahedrite and some iron ore(whatever is available).  If you start at embark, you can easily provide full suits of armor and weapons by the end of the first year.   I generally hold off and try to explore my stone layers a bit, to see what native metals I have.   I prefer to train my smiths on copper gear before making iron, and I don't make steel anything until they are very skilled. 

I really can't reiterate the importance of layered defenses, because it's imperative to survival.  I'm currently relying on a tower of andesite blocks that's planned to be atleast 4 levels high, currently 3 levels of walls are complete.   The 2nd story is the entrance, and it started as a raised platform with two 3x3 bridges, but I've built small towers(5x5ish interior) beside them, connecting those towers to the main tower, but not accessible to the gateway.   I plan on carving fortifications on the third level surrounding the gateway so my marksdwarfs can shoot down at anything caught in the gateway.   

Ideally, you want to soften the enemy up with something, like traps and guard animals, before you send in the military.  I particularly like cage traps because they remove enemies from the fight immediately, and after the fighting is over, you can release those prisoners, unarmed(possibly unarmored) in the middle of your military dorfs you want to train up.   

Surviving your first real siege(or atleast, bandit raid) is when you feel good. 

Edit:  WATER.   If you are using the military, dwarves are going to get hurt.  Hurt dwarves need water to drink, or they will die from dehydration.   Wounds need clean water or infection WILL set in, and dwarves will die.   I built a cistern adjoining my tower, fed by a pump on the brook.   This is a temporary fix:  one building destroyer walks up, it tears up the pump and all my water comes out.   I'll probably build a more elaborate pump set up later on, probably just have a aquaduct over the brook to the cistern.   But it works for now. 

« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 04:03:37 am by Verjigorm »
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celem

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2014, 06:34:10 am »

Yeah eventually came some key info, was reading the thread waiting for people to touch general defense rather than pure military interface.

The general is the most important guy in the military, thats you.  If you dont pitch the battles your military will be curb-stomped all across the map day-in day-out.  Only total legend weaponlords are going to survive a foolish general, and then only sometimes.  The random nature of df combat means your candy-clad axelord can and will be skullbusted by a surprising range of targets given enough time.

(example:  ordering a squad that is training or off duty to kill an invader is poor play.  they will turn up in 1's and 2's in a string as they finish their tasks, take a piss, refill the waterskin and show up.  If the invader is any good he's gonna ruin your day.  Instead order the squad to station infront of the invader, get him to path to them.  Hopefully that way they gather and then suddenly he comes into sight, where their own nature takes over)

Control the movement of the hostiles, whether they come from cavern or surface.  Compartmentalizing the surface can allow you to handle traders/migrants during sieges.
Funnel into choke-points.  This is where the traps go and where the cross-fire should be.  You can also put a military squad where a chokepoint opens to try and get them numbers advantage, though they traditionally are pretty much a norse berserker once they see a hostile and pass from your control.  Dont ever, ever have your dwarves fighting on top of your traps.  If they black out for even a second they get hit by whatever they are standing on.

Learn how to train and equip them.  Much of that in first posts here.  Marksmen can be finicky to train effectively and deploy safely.  Some hints in my sig thread.

Dont over-estimate the military, commit them loosely and watch their numbers thin.  Only thing gonna keep your dwarves alive is you and your caution.
Be wary of over-extending them.  Pushing to meet an enemy far from your part of the map can end ugly if you find an ambush out there, you have no control.
Remember always that once they are engaged they are not listening to you anymore.  So you want all the fighting to go down in 1 go, extended conflicts, switching targets and tactical retreats are not dwarven concepts, dont be surprised if they wont obey an order until they cannot see a living hostile.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 07:04:27 am by celem »
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Skullsploder

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2014, 08:31:20 am »

Yes, living hostile in LoS always means an enraged beserker dwarf determined to kill it (or a screaming coward of a civilian dwarf).

That is the reason for the blind corners. Keep straight sections a maximum of 15 tiles or so and your military's engagements will become much more compartmentalised, so that they are in berserker mode much less of the time and much more under your control.

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celem

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Re: Military for a new player
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2014, 09:06:00 am »

Its almost a bit of a pest actually.  Its hard to come up with defensive strategies that dont resort to the snaking 1-tile corridors on the surface. (or 2/3, snaking anyway).  Just for the ability to manage your dwarves LoS.

Its been my go-to for so many versions i was secretly relieved when everyone learned to climb and forced me to play with more interesting stuff.  Its still compartmentalizing as you say, but i'm currently using a gridlike setup of walls on the surface with lots of bridges and a master lever control room. (overhangs on walls seem to discourage climbing box to box.)  I can have several sieges in different positions, a migrant wave making its way through and a caravan on hold while i empty a box of goblins into a trap corridor.  I'm even able to move hostiles from 1 box to another to clear a path for a caravan i want to trade with through some animal baiting, or split a siege into it's squads and direct each to an entrance of my choice by opening the correct sequence of bridges to form a path.

Loads of cool stuff you can do once you understand how they behave and manage the circumstances.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:12:25 am by celem »
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