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[Jack A T]

Votecount:
*MyOwnWorstEnemy - (0)
*Tiruin - Tack (1)
*TheDarkStar - The Soldier (1)
*Persus13 - (0)
*Andrew425 - (0)
*The Soldier - (0)
*Tack - (0)
Not Voting: MyOwnWorstEnemy, Tiruin, TheDarkStar, Persus13, Andrew425

Day 2 will end 12:00 PM PST Wednesday, April 30th.

[The Soldier]

TheDarkStar:

The Soldier: Here's my response to your post.

First, something that's not mine but is really bugging me.

-post about Tack-

Just for comparison, here's the relevant part of the original post:

-Tack's post-

Note the massive differences in tone and ideas expressed. While you've raised good points earlier, this one seems like a misrepresentation designed to make someone seem scummy.

That wasn't my intention; what I had meant to say was that that was what I believed his thought process to have been, but that didn't translate to text well. Looking at it again, I don't interpret his logic as being scummy. However, my other points about Tack, such as his passivity and lack of scumhunting stand. Do you agree?

In regards to me: You call my vote that includes the extension "fluff". I'd count that as an action.

First off, why a FoS instead of a vote here? If he was scummy to you, why not vote him? Further, you don't ask any questions of your own, just letting other people like Andrew and Tiruin do the hard work.

pkop was new and his actions were partially attributable to being new. There was also an implied question (although I probably should have just asked it) - "What is the explaination for your actions?"

Re: Extensions, see a bit lower.
Re: The rest here, I still don't see a reason for you not to have just voted him. The day was still young, so there was little to no danger of accidentally contributing to his lynch. Furthermore, the bit about you asking no questions of your own D1 was in regards to all of your posts (another failure to translate from thoughts to text), and I still believe that to be true. Did pisskop ever answer your implied question?

Post #14 (lucky multiples of seven, huh?):

That's not that good of a reason to vote, especially since Tiruin has been mostly inactive in other threads over the last couple days, too. I think you're just trying to distract votes from your scumbuddy, Tack.

Transparent distancing.

What makes this "transparent distancing?" It's not enough to simply post and declare something; you have to explain how what you say makes sense.

Another case of overactive imagination. I vividly saw a scenario where hypothetical-you checked the thread, saw your buddy's post, facepalmed, and immediately went into damage-control mode. As-is, we can't know for sure until we get a roleflip from one of you. Also, who are you referring to as Tack's scumbuddy?

Andrew: Not that much has happened today, but here are my reads (what alignment I think people are)

MOWE: Unless pkop's scumbuddy, probably town because of being the first to extend the day.
Tiruin: Has talked a lot with pkop and Soldier. Extended, but null read due to the extend being superfluous.
4maskwolf: Town lean because scumhunting.
TheDarkStar: Obviously, I'm town.
Persus: Null read because he has 2 or 3 short posts.
Andrew: Slight scum lean because of some ambiguously-worded posts. He contributes, but hasn't scumhunted.
Soldier: Town lean due to activity and questions. The superfluous extend is unreadable, just like Tiruin's.
Tack: Slight scum lean for an unbacked and meta-based decision on who's scum. Possibly trying to stop a lynch vote on someone else, but the vote on Tiruin would make no sense in that case. I want to hear more from him about his most recent post.
pkop: Reading his posts makes him seem scummy to me, but he hasn't said too much that is outright scummy and he is about as scummy as Andrew. He responds with questions that don't encourage discussion and is focusing to a large extend on getting Andrew lynched, so he's either scum trying to lead a mislynch or a townie who is focusing in on someone while scumhunting. We don't currently have many better reads, so he gets my vote. Also, note that he and Andrew are almost certainly not both scum.

Several things wrong here. First, I'm going to have to disagree about extending being a towntell. It's something that players of any alignment should do, as a simple courtesy. Winning as scum because you opposed an extension or something would be horribly low, and I would hope no one here would stoop to that. Besides, scum would have a perfectly fine reason to extend if their buddy is currently the vote leader by a small margin.

Extending isn't a towntell, but extending is more of a towntell than a scumtell. Your argument is also odd - scum can and have done things like refusing to extend to win.

Are you saying that extending is like claiming miller, in that town are more likely to do it than scum but scum still can, and it's thus null overall? If so, I can agree with that. The second half is really just me making a statement; winning as scum because I opposed an extension would just feel fake or 'cheap' for lack of a better term.

Secondly, where are Andrew's ambiguously-worded posts? If he 'hasn't scumhunted,' then what was that whole debate with pisskop that was the main focus of D1?

He talked with pkop, yes. Ask questions that got anywhere? Not really. Here's a sample:

I had intentions pending your answer.  'No, I wouldn't' Doesnt do a lot for me either.  Id hardly call it a popular move yet, either, but your response feels like you are insinuating it is.  Discrediting the wagon at L-3.

1) Why would you say it is a pressure vote?  That usually eliminates not of the pressure.
2) Do you have any potential associations worked out yet?
3) What do you think of the day's progress and flow?
4) If you had a dayvig shot right now, would you use it?  on who and why?  Does lurking play into it?

I pay attention to people's inconsistencies in their statements. When you're asked why you're still voting for me you say you have no reason to change and then immediately do so. That to me is a good enough reason to put some pressure on you.

1. I said it because I already got what I wanted out of it. Your voting for me looks like you were waiting for the Soldier to cast the first vote so you could vote me without having to do any of the leg work.
2. It's highly unlikely but right now the only association I've worked out is you and the Soldier. I say it's unlikely because I've yet to see the two most active people be scum, then again it's been a while since I've played.
3. I really wish the other players would jump in on this argument of ours. If we could get a few more opinions thrown into the ring we'd be able to get a better picture of who the scum really are.
4. No I wouldn't. One of the best ways to find scum is to look at people's vote. If I used it I'd likely hit a town member and that would give us one less chance of piecing together this puzzle.
-snip-

Here, he's answering questions. He doesn't do that much else.

I think you have a point here. I thought Andrew had done more than what he has, but indeed, the post you quoted is his most constructive one. Do you still think he's scum? Do you intend to question him?

So, anything that I say about Tack is a scumtell? Saying that he's town makes him my scumbuddy and saying that he's scum or scummy also makes him my scumbuddy? I can't see that as just trying to get information about someone.

See above about my previous distancing point. This will be useful to look at if/when either of you flip scum, but until then it's null. Did I really call you scum for saying he's town? Also, it's not so much the content of your statements about Tack as it is the timing of them that makes them scummy to me: just over an hour after Tack's post, with both 'distancing' accusations coming from different parts of the same post.

I wasn't active much Day 1 due to distraction and real life. Also, there were several people with reasons that they were scummy, so I decided to pick one. We needed the information.

I have also explained my last sentence in that post a lot. For the last time, I did not say that one is scum and one is not. I said that both of them are not scum (so it could be town/scum, scum/town, or (as seems likely now) town/town).

Fair enough. I admit that the fallacy accusation was a mistake, born of my paranoia. Jumping at shadows...
Andrew:

As seen above, my argument against TDS was not without flaws. Why so readily accept it? Now that Day 1 is over, ask some strong questions. Using your own arguments, who is scum and why?

Tack:

Sad to see you go. Hopefully you'll be able to make a comeback one day.

[Tiruin]

Alright, back in game.
Pisskop was my...well, my primary target @D1, I guess its at rest now.

To me, he was unsure during his time in life (wherein honestly, brevity does not bode well with me here), but scummy in how I saw his earlier approaches, until later on...
> The method of his approach, while pulled from his tactics in other forums, didn't help much in this situation. I've to put that I was under the suspicion 'that scum wouldn't play like such due to...' but then was quite curious as to his ideas...
Then RL kicked me after this.
Honestly? After reading it all (sans the flip), he's reading town. Not solely due to how he "didn't know things" [I'm translating feelings into words >_> Must learn how to provide efficient discourse here], but in his replies soon after on how he rationalized or analyzed his findings.
While I still do stand on the fact that his actions were scummy, his backing of such didn't hold up...in relation to being actual scum.

Continuing from kick-off...
Tack
Query on this point

Tack: What's your opinion on the Andrew/pisskop dialog? I'll answer afterwards.

I think most good mafia won't be big talkers day 1, and I agree with Andrew there.
That being said, it's easy to get drawn into a dialogue, so that doesn't absolve him, especially if he's not particularly experienced.

A lot can be drawn from this statement but I've to ask,
why? Formatted the point of basis.
Why do I ask? It seems to bleed out here:

If I were to choose between voting Andrew or voting Pisskop, I'd choose neither. They've got less chances of being powerplay scum than one of the background people, so I'd rather take the 3/11 chance and vote someone who isn't in the forefront battle. One might still be scum, but if so, they'd need to be quite inexperienced.
That, to me would be either MyOwnWorstEnemy or Tiruin at this point. 4maskwolf was busy in the early day, and so far The Soldier and TehDarkStah have been pretty busy jumping in the diologue.
Seeing as in all of the games I've seen Tiruin play- namely, one: She doesn't usually play it this cool, I'll throw my vote there and see if it goes to good use.

Why not them? (which is connected to that question above) It leads to the purple statement that you're acting on rationale. A rationale which has its roots on something conclusive, it seems.
And from there, you angle down to...err, me.
On what basis?
On...playing 'cool'? Did you factor in RL reasons (as stated before? Or well, stated in my mind if its not there..>_<)
...
And protip: Calling out your reason for voting at times like these...doesn't generally do well to help but disillusion the power of the vote.
TDS
Query here
Distance from whonow? There's a link I'm seeing but it seems to be unlinked to anything you said in your posts before that one.
*looks at read list* Also, you judge by who is first to extend...
Why? :O

PPE: Tiruin: I still want an answer at some point.

Answer to where? I think I missed it :x
MOWE

College hit me hard for the past couple days. I'm back now though! 

*college pain high-five*
How does pisskop look like to you, now?

Soldier
Here, I ask. How am I hard to read?
Query on Tack: For me, he seems to be stating things too transparently in that post, but it is still under the notion of transparency. Is your suspicion on him more due to the substance of his posts over anything else?

Andrew: Given your beliefs yesterday and today--how do you see a person's votes being placed as? Are they, to you, regarded as a good sign of a tell?
What is the most scummy thing you consider in games like these?

Jack
I love your flavor. It is so humbling.
Forgive us.

...why me?

Why me?
I know which one of you did it, and all I have to say is: why me?

You could have killed anyone but yourself and your scumbuddy, but you killed me.

Also, Jack, I loved the flavor.

My best guess? You're active, and astute.
Though the orange part signifies that dead chat would be really active. :3

[Tack]

Why?

My reasoning, whilst not good- is certainly simple. In the other games I've seen you play, you're more talkative than this, and on the first day you were the least to post- aside from me.
However currently I'm just playing it by the law of averages. You haven't been mafia in your past few games, so I'd like to hedge my bets on you being it this game.
(Or is that not allowed?)

In any case, Soldier's rapid defense of you is certainly something for me to mull on.

[Tiruin]

You haven't been mafia in your past few games, so I'd like to hedge my bets on you being it this game.
(Or is that not allowed?)

:v
Really.
Hedging bets on...if you're not mafia before you'll be soon?
Not a good idea to bring up or make a case on (I mean, sure, if you've a daykill or vigilante role, that'd make sense--but its not a stable foundation to make a case on.)
So why of all games, must it be this game, to humor you?

My reasoning, whilst not good- is certainly simple. In the other games I've seen you play, you're more talkative than this, and on the first day you were the least to post- aside from me.

I did say RL. :/
Hence why I'm fixing it now.

[Jack A T]

The recent Stalwart Robotics androids have been plagued with an assortment of technical issues.  While the creation of a programmable personality storage system in the PTY-31Z (a model also notable for being incredibly lifelike) was a brilliant innovation, the system has had the problem of occasionally randomly switching between stored personalities.

Persus13 demonstrated the issue quite effectively.  Suddenly standing in the middle of breakfast, he unemotionally stated, "Personality shift complete."  He then headed to the door of his room, and quickly covered his name tag with a rapidly written "flabort" on a piece of masking tape.
Votecount:
*MyOwnWorstEnemy - (0)
*Tiruin - Tack (1)
*TheDarkStar - The Soldier (1)
*flabort- (0)
*Andrew425 - (0)
*The Soldier - (0)
*Tack - (0)
Not Voting: MyOwnWorstEnemy, Tiruin, TheDarkStar, flabort, Andrew425

MyOwnWorstEnemy has been prodded.  Persus13 has been replaced by flabort.

The day has been extended by 24 hours due to the replacement.  Day 2 will end 12:00 PM PST Thursday, May 1st.

[Persus13]

Wait, what?

Nevermind.

[Jack A T]

Wait, what?

Nevermind.

A note in the thread:
Serious moderator error occurred (failure to prod Persus13 again first) (oops), I believe due to misremembering events and not checking thoroughly enough.  After speaking to Persus13, the issue has been resolved: flabort will continue playing, and Persus13 will replace flabort if necessary.

More care shall be taken in the future.

[TheDarkStar]

TDS
Query here
Distance from whonow? There's a link I'm seeing but it seems to be unlinked to anything you said in your posts before that one.
*looks at read list* Also, you judge by who is first to extend...
Why? :O

I was unclear, but I was suggesting distancing from MOWE. I don't have any good scum reads right now, though, and I'm going to go through this thread again.

PPE: Tiruin: I still want an answer at some point.

Answer to where? I think I missed it :x

I'm not actually sure either. I can't actually remember asking you a question that never got answered; maybe I thought I posted it and never did? I'll look through the thread again.

[The Soldier]

Quick post, feel awful right now.

TDS:

There were some questions for you in my response to your defense, check the ends of the paragraphs.

Tiruin:

You're mainly hard to read because of you having relatively few posts due to timezones and RL. I see you as town right now, but it's vague and I'd like to see more to be more sure.

Flabort:

Welcome to the game. Have any first impressions?

[TheDarkStar]

TheDarkStar:
However, my other points about Tack, such as his passivity and lack of scumhunting stand. Do you agree?

Did pisskop ever answer your implied question?

Also, who are you referring to as Tack's scumbuddy?

Are you saying that extending is like claiming miller, in that town are more likely to do it than scum but scum still can, and it's thus null overall? If so, I can agree with that.

Do you still think he's scum? Do you intend to question him?

1. Yes.

2. No.

3. I referred to MOWE, but I haven't seen much of a basis for that (and it was mostly to see what his response was anyway).

4. Yes.

5. I'm not sure; let me read through this game. If I can't tell, I'll ask some questions to get an idea about what's going on.

[Silthuri]

Sorry, but my professors have decided to be jerks and throw in a ton of homework and exams before finals. I've had almost no time for the forums lately and what little time I've had, I've spent on the BM.

I'll do my best to post something useful tomorrow, Friday at the latest.

[flabort]

Flabort:

Welcome to the game. Have any first impressions?

Yes, I've actually been keeping notes this whole time. It was somewhat agonizing watching Pisskop making the same mistakes I did in my previous game, however, life goes on.

My impressions:
The Soldier: Town lean. Big posts of scum hunting in detail.
TheDarkStar: Neutral read. I would say that he's bouncing between a town and scum lean, currently town lean.
Andrew425: Neutral read. I'd say he's lurking, but he was relatively active during the post-extension day.
Tiruin: Slight Town lean. I feel she has a harsh way of introducing newbies to the meta, from my experience in Orbfalls and from Pisskop. However, heaven forbid I WIFO after only one game and a day.
Tack: Slight Scum lean. I thought I would replace him after he requested, however, it didn't work out that way.
MyOwnWorstEnemy: Neutral read. It's no surprise to me, I am my own worst enemy. 'Cause every now and then, I beat the living *beat* out of me. Activiometer was only slightly better than Perseus, whom I am replacing, so not much input to color my notes.

Reads on flipped townies:
4maskwolf: Before being NKd, he had a slight town lean. Nothing definite, but enough for me to think he was.
Pisskop: Honestly, a slight scum lean, even accounting for making the same mistakes I did. However, he was not doing too bad before he got lynched.

Reads on flipped scum:
None yet!

TheDarkStar I have you down for several brief comments, such as posts 66, 69, 88, 90, 92, 97, etc.
What is the reason for this constant brevity?
You also didn't vote until being prodded to by 4maskwolf in post 99, whereupon you immediately voted for the popular wagon. In the meta that I'm familiar with, and the metas I assume Pisskop hails from, this is considered incredibly scummy. I'm pointing my finger of suspicion at you.

Andrew425, MyOwnWorstEnemy: I haven't seen as much activity out of you on day 2 as the others. Whereas most of the other activity has picked up, with the exceptions of the dead people, yours has dropped off. Why has your activity dropped off on day 2? I will accept life issues, and unvote if it is those.

[Tiruin]

Sorry, but my professors have decided to be jerks and throw in a ton of homework and exams before finals. I've had almost no time for the forums lately and what little time I've had, I've spent on the BM.

I'll do my best to post something useful tomorrow, Friday at the latest.

Same too, but midterms here. :/
Granted, I've 2 free days. Friday and Saturday <3
Also seriously. If you need help in Biology, don't hesitate to ask [Bay12].
We can REALLY help. :I
Especially in minor tips? Study tips? Yeah. Totes helpful there :v
flabort

Tiruin: Slight Town lean. I feel she has a harsh way of introducing newbies to the meta, from my experience in Orbfalls and from Pisskop. However, heaven forbid I WIFO after only one game and a day.

Heeey...I did say i was aggressive in Orbfalls D:<
I'm not, here, but that is up to your discretion.
^{Also for personal posterity, could you detail how I was being harsh, and what meta this is?}

Query: I don't see direct reasons behind your leaning reads. Could you explain that part?

Reads on flipped scum:
None yet!

I like your pattern of organization
Though, on that manner...I'm seeing more of said pattern instead of [subtle ploy].
...In the future, refrain (or keep offline) these sorts of things. Implications would fly freely when stuff like these happen (for example, when I first read this, I was suspicious on 'why would there be a section for flipped scum?' until I realized the above)


TDS: Impressions on people who either don't read the game, or haven't read up on them, please?
What is your opinion regarding those who lay back the game for later on? Scummy? Null? I'd like to know, thanks.

[The Soldier]

Revised readlist:

=Active Players=
Me: Yep.
TheDarkStar: Still a scum lean, but not as much as before. As it stands now, the only point against him that I see is how he voted for pisskop. Tack flipping scum would lend credence to the possibility of the two of them being buddies, but until then, not so much to go on.
Tiruin: Activity picking up, asking questions that matter. Still town.
Flabort: Just replaced in, not much to go on yet. However, I like what I see from his one post so far. Minor town lean.

=Not-so-active Players=
Tack: Scummy. He has done very little to help town find scum. He simply doesn't seem interested in hunting, preferring to just drift by.
MOWE: Crushed under the might of RL. Also has little in the way of contributions, but hopefully that will change soon. Also jumps on the pisskop train late in the day, but has actual, legitimate reasons for doing so. Null.
Andrew: Has more posts than the other 'inactives,' but still hasn't done much of anything, particularly today. Most of D1 was RVS/pisskop, with little attention paid to anyone else. His sole D2 post is just agreeing with me and adding some softball questions. If I saw someone using a flawed argument against someone, I would be sure to ask about it and/or present the flaws, but Andrew doesn't seem to have actually read it. In short, potential active lurking.
Andrew:

There are some questions for you in my previous post. Here's another: have you been activelurking?

flabort:

Who do you have the strongest town read on, and why? Strongest scum read? Who is hardest to read?