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[Delta Foxtrot]

Ultimately, Civ is a very gamey series of videogames.

A simulation it is not.

[Descan]

I still think it'd make more sense to split up the hexes into much smaller sub-hexes, and have the cities be multi-hex structures. Plus you can make forts be actual fort-sized, instead of city-sized. Perhaps as they get bigger, they colonize the tiles around them, say every 2-3 population a new tile is taken by the city, and that's another tile you need to defend.

And have the units have a limit per tile, but not one, have it based on obvious size. I mean you can probably get more infantry into a tile than you can tanks, no? Elephants take up more room than horses, but perhaps just have it split into "Infantry, Cavalry, Mechanical" with catapults and tanks in the last category.

Plus, you can get higher resolution land, so a landmass like Italy isn't only 5 tiles long, 2 tiles wide, and you can get more interesting terrain.

[Shadowlord]

With all this debate about whether one-unit-per-tile or infinite-stacks-of-doom are better, I'd just like to say that I think Dominions's way (Provinces! Armies! Led by commanders! Actual battles between them!) is, to me, better than any approach Civ has taken.

[swordsmith04]

While I admittedly haven't been looking around, one alternative to the doomstack/1UPT problem I haven't seen is to make military units require food. Say, each food unit in a tile feeds 2-3 full strength units on normal rations, and if you want, you can adjust the rationing to give more food (strength bonus, feeds fewer units) or less (strength malus, but more units). If there's not enough food on even the smallest rations, the units start acquiring maluses to combat, and when, after a turn or two, it reaches -100%, it gets destroyed.

Foraging wouldn't be everything, of course. Maybe have supply units that take up food and which "rot" away after a few turns in the field. In cities, they'd require food upkeep like military units (replacing rotten food). Granaries would reduce the amount they take, up until Refrigeration*, which does away with city supply "rotting".

This would also probably require some sort of slider on the city screen, to decide how much of the surplus goes towards the city's population and how much is kept for military use/is wasted.

Thoughts?


*Well, this is a tech in Civ IV, at least. Don't know about Civ V.

[MarcAFK]

I still think it'd make more sense to split up the hexes into much smaller sub-hexes, and have the cities be multi-hex structures. Plus you can make forts be actual fort-sized, instead of city-sized. Perhaps as they get bigger, they colonize the tiles around them, say every 2-3 population a new tile is taken by the city, and that's another tile you need to defend.

And have the units have a limit per tile, but not one, have it based on obvious size. I mean you can probably get more infantry into a tile than you can tanks, no? Elephants take up more room than horses, but perhaps just have it split into "Infantry, Cavalry, Mechanical" with catapults and tanks in the last category.

Plus, you can get higher resolution land, so a landmass like Italy isn't only 5 tiles long, 2 tiles wide, and you can get more interesting terrain.

Just what civ needs, more micro management yay.

[Greenbane]

There was a new Firaxis livestream yesterday, detailing the more robust new game setup in Beyond Earth. Pretty interesting.

There will be another next Thursday at 2pm Eastern US, and will give a more in-depth look into all three affinities: Purity, Supremacy and Harmony.

[Descan]

I still think it'd make more sense to split up the hexes into much smaller sub-hexes, and have the cities be multi-hex structures. Plus you can make forts be actual fort-sized, instead of city-sized. Perhaps as they get bigger, they colonize the tiles around them, say every 2-3 population a new tile is taken by the city, and that's another tile you need to defend.

And have the units have a limit per tile, but not one, have it based on obvious size. I mean you can probably get more infantry into a tile than you can tanks, no? Elephants take up more room than horses, but perhaps just have it split into "Infantry, Cavalry, Mechanical" with catapults and tanks in the last category.

Plus, you can get higher resolution land, so a landmass like Italy isn't only 5 tiles long, 2 tiles wide, and you can get more interesting terrain.

Just what civ needs, more micro management yay.

What micromanagement? Just keeping in mind "I can have 5 infantry in a hex, or 3 cavalry, or one machine."

And protecting your towns as they get bigger, putting defensive units in them to protect the expanded quarters.

I don't see any other micro-management besides "Tanks are bigger than horses are bigger than people" and "I have a big city, better protect it."

[Neonivek]

Hmmm the Africans see to have increased food production instead of some sort of technology enhancement... But that can't mean anything...

What also gives a food bonus anyway? Refuges?..... uhhhhhhhhhh >_>

I don't know what Fireaxis' obsession with making Future Africa poor.

Then again they did make the Americans lairs, backstabbers, and thieves...

[Delta Foxtrot]

I don't know what Fireaxis' obsession with making Future Africa poor.

It's not like Africa in XCOM gave you the most money. Ohwait

[Greenbane]

Hmmm the Africans see to have increased food production instead of some sort of technology enhancement... But that can't mean anything...

What also gives a food bonus anyway? Refuges?..... uhhhhhhhhhh >_>

I don't know what Fireaxis' obsession with making Future Africa poor.

Then again they did make the Americans lairs, backstabbers, and thieves...

Why is having a food bonus a synonym of poverty to you? Food isn't just, well, food, but a capacity for sustained growth and having the infrastructure that implicitly demands.

[Neonivek]

I don't know what Fireaxis' obsession with making Future Africa poor.

It's not like Africa in XCOM gave you the most money. Ohwait

You should have heard their original plans.

Why is having a food bonus a synonym of poverty to you? Food isn't just, well, food, but a capacity for sustained growth and having the infrastructure that implicitly demands.

It isn't so much that... so much that.. I am pretty sure that is what Fireaxis is thinking. "Hmm a technologically inferior group with a lack of cash... what sort of advantage could they have?... Hmmm I know food! and we will even give Refuges a similar ability so you can have a nation of African Refuge farmers"

it is just... a coincidence... that keeps getting compounded.

[Greenbane]

That just sounds highly subjective.

If the PAU were poor, they wouldn't have been among the (first?) eight factions to undertake the monumentally costly enterprise that's constructing/procuring and launching seeding starships.

[Neonivek]

Its just a running theme I am noticing. It may be nothing.

Though I am always groan somewhat when far future earth is... the same earth.

[Culise]

Its just a running theme I am noticing. It may be nothing.

Though I am always groan somewhat when far future earth is... the same earth.

I think it's reading a bit much into it as well; if you're arguing that food bonuses are adequate to represent poverty, you may as well say that food facilities like the vivarium (I think it's called that, at any rate) are a sign of of the same.  If anything, it results in a situation where you may well not wish to take Refugees as Africa, because the PAU's UA only works when the city is healthy.  Rather, you could easily end up preferring one of the two colonist sets that results in Health bonuses - Aristocrats or Artists - which also help patch up other areas as well.  That depends a bit on how well Health works, though, in particular how easy or difficult it is to maintain as cities grow. 

Honestly, though, I'm wondering if it isn't simply a dull ability.  The more interesting sponsors tend to get interesting abilities that don't mimic colonist bonuses.  The others tend to play with distinct game features - covert ops, trade routes, the orbital map, Virtues.  The PAC and PAU, though, do tend to overlap with Engineers and Refugees, respectively, but even the PAC has a bit of a "bonus" in that the production-relevant half of its UA only activates for wonders, whereas the Engineers are a general flat production boost. 

[Neonivek]

I am saying that Fireaxis might be in that mindset.

Though I am more disappointed the complex groupings of Alpha Centauri isn't there and that it feels almost WAAAAAY too much like Civ 5.

Even to the extent that I can pick out which features are just reskins. "Ohh look there is the barbarian camp... and there is the horse resource... OHHH and fish!".. I kind of thought this alien planet would be a bit more... alien so to speak.

But then again I am sure things change later such as when you can start building underwater cities that I am sure are in the game... >_> right?

Note: I honestly don't know if that has been cut or now... I am mostly just thinking of the features Alpha Centauri had that separated it from just being Civilization 2 (or 3 I forget) except with a sci-fi remodel...

So right now I am trying to see what this game does that is entirely separate from Civilization 5 and not just a remodel.