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[scrdest]

I think the problem is not that people don't like too good AIs, it's that nobody likes bad AIs that cheat to appear good so hard they cannot be beaten by most people. It is one thing to be beaten by a smart gambit and another to be drowned in a tide of bodies because AI has ten times more resources and quarter as long production times.

[MarcAFK]

Looking forward to this more than I was to x-com.

[Niveras]

Anyway my point is I wouldn't expect Civ Beyond Earth to be that much like Alpha Centauri, I think they are going to gloss over the story and background which gave Alpha Centauri such depth, I wouldn't expect any interesting Wonder/Secret Project videos or interesting quotes.

I think they may try. They tried in Civ4 and Civ5. Mostly, though, the problem in those games is that the quotes are all historical, so there's no opportunity to get creative and add a distinct flavor that belongs only to the game itself. It also doesn't help that they only had one voice actor for all the blurbs, reducing the opportunity to add character to... characters; of course, the fact that it is historical means that you can't really have repeating characters (meaning you'd basically have one voice actor per tech), and furthermore that the characters themselves are also historical so, again, there lacks an opportunity add a new flavor to the leaders. Granted, some of SMAC's blurbs are historical, but the voice actors vary and they don't comprise 100% of the blurbs.

SMAC wouldn't be the same if Zhakrarov didn't have that Russian stilt, or Miriam's cadence. If all the quotes were delivered deadpan by, like, Peter Cullen (Optimus Prime among many other animated voice roles) or Tony Jay (who's dead but has the same sort of deep resonance of William Morgan Sheppard, who did the tech blurbs in the English Civ5) it would lose a lot of its charm for me.

[EuchreJack]

Tbh I don't really like Sid Meier, especially after seeing his GDC talk and it was Brian Reynolds who made Alpha Centauri, not Sid.

What did he say in the talk that was problematic?

Stuff like everyone is winner and make game easier for player to boost their ego, fudge odds so player doesn't lose (like XCOM 2012 increasing odds of hitting after a miss)

Sid Meier is like the Michael Jackson of Video Games: He was awesome in the early '90s, but kinda sucks now.

[Sharp]

Anyway my point is I wouldn't expect Civ Beyond Earth to be that much like Alpha Centauri, I think they are going to gloss over the story and background which gave Alpha Centauri such depth, I wouldn't expect any interesting Wonder/Secret Project videos or interesting quotes.

I think they may try. They tried in Civ4 and Civ5. Mostly, though, the problem in those games is that the quotes are all historical, so there's no opportunity to get creative and add a distinct flavor that belongs only to the game itself.

They didn't try at all. Compare Civ 2 and Civ 4/5.

Civ 2 you had the Council


You had Civilopedia which contained game information on unit/building as well as historical information about the unit/building. You had videos of Wonders of the World which actually showed them instead of just a sped up version of how it might look in construction. You also had city view in Civ 2 which was pretty simple but still nice to get a feel for the city growing and nice little visual overview of the city improvements.

Now to be fair Alpha Centauri didn't have city view or council and technically its civilopedia (datalinks) was not historical but it had lots of writing behind it and made everything seem plausible and the secret project videos were pretty cool and the voice acting was amazing.

[10ebbor10]

Sure you have the right image?

[Sinistar]

It's the council but in X-com universe.
This is fantastic.

Also:

There's a bit of Yang in everyone.

"It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

Indeed.

There's a bit of everyone in Yang.

Indeed.

This went even better then expected. 

[Patchy]

The council from civ 2, reimagined hehe. I loved those guys and lady, and I really missed them when they didn't make it into civ3 and beyond. Awesome picture.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Novels say that Miriam is canonically dead, death by flawed Psi Gate.

I don't treat the novels as canon. In any case the Psi Gate theory holds true. In the bulk matter transporter Miriam's narrating over it, wondering if the transporter is capable of transporting the soul with the body. When the Psi Gate is first constructed, it is a narration from Miriam's "last testament" where she guides her followers into a Psi Gate to Kingdom above. It is assumed that this is an ending as happy as the Spartan's/

[Niveras]

Anyway my point is I wouldn't expect Civ Beyond Earth to be that much like Alpha Centauri, I think they are going to gloss over the story and background which gave Alpha Centauri such depth, I wouldn't expect any interesting Wonder/Secret Project videos or interesting quotes.

I think they may try. They tried in Civ4 and Civ5. Mostly, though, the problem in those games is that the quotes are all historical, so there's no opportunity to get creative and add a distinct flavor that belongs only to the game itself.

They didn't try at all. Compare Civ 2 and Civ 4/5.

Civ 2 you had the Council

You had Civilopedia which contained game information on unit/building as well as historical information about the unit/building. You had videos of Wonders of the World which actually showed them instead of just a sped up version of how it might look in construction. You also had city view in Civ 2 which was pretty simple but still nice to get a feel for the city growing and nice little visual overview of the city improvements.

Now to be fair Alpha Centauri didn't have city view or council and technically its civilopedia (datalinks) was not historical but it had lots of writing behind it and made everything seem plausible and the secret project videos were pretty cool and the voice acting was amazing.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The council in Civ2 didn't fill the same role as the tech blurbs in SMAC. In fact, I expect I hardly even looked at the council since I don't really remember much about them. Techs, however, pop up every time you research them, and in SMAC you also have blurbs for the wonders and even the first of a building built in the world (or in the faction?). All games have had a *pedia that further details techs, buildings, wonders (well, SMAC didn't - it had a *pedia but the individual entries on things just described their gameplay effects, no additional flavor besides the associated quote).

Civ4 and Civ5 had blurbs where Civ2 did not. To me, that means the people making those games thought it was a good thing (probably because lots of players like that idea too), but they couldn't manage quite the same thing because while the function is the same, the flavor is not. Like a cake, but instead of sugar icing you have some aberrant horror like cream cheese.

So yes, I believe they tried to emulate the tech blurbs of SMAC (and thus they will probably try again in Beyond Earth) but they probably won't succeed because they don't recognize what made it (remember I'm just talking about the blurbs here) great or because they're bound to the limitations of reality.

[Neonivek]

Novels say that Miriam is canonically dead, death by flawed Psi Gate

That is also possibly JUST from the narrator's perspective. Afterall Miriam set her Psigate to go somewhere "impossible" which is its "flaw" and yes she very well could be "dead" in some senses.

[Shadowlord]

In fact, I expect I hardly even looked at the council since I don't really remember much about them.

The council was awesome! You really missed out.

[loose nut]

Civ4 and Civ5 had blurbs where Civ2 did not. To me, that means the people making those games thought it was a good thing (probably because lots of players like that idea too), but they couldn't manage quite the same thing because while the function is the same, the flavor is not. Like a cake, but instead of sugar icing you have some aberrant horror like cream cheese.

Eh, the quotes in Civ 4 and 5 are okay. Civ 5 is a bit better. They can't manage the same thing as Alpha Centauri did because in SMAC the quotes, the leaders, all of that are of one neat conceptual piece, and that concept doesn't fit in the regular Civ game (I've never really made my peace with faction leaders in Civ games – I'd love it if they came up with another system). They do, however, have the room to create a coherent backstory for Civilization Beyond Earth, if they want to.

I can see why they wouldn't because then they're just inviting more direct comparisons with SMAC, plus they have to deal with more aggressive marketers who will tell them to make it simpler for younger audiences.

Love the Civ 2 council by the way.

[Loud Whispers]

Novels say that Miriam is canonically dead, death by flawed Psi Gate

That is also possibly JUST from the narrator's perspective. Afterall Miriam set her Psigate to go somewhere "impossible" which is its "flaw" and yes she very well could be "dead" in some senses.

Miriam isn't dead. She's living by a nice kelp farm on nessus with all the other believers, surrounded by puppies and empaths.

[Darkening Kaos]

  She's keeping company with an overweight entertainer who has a strange fetish for sequin-encrusted, white, mindworm-silk jumpsuits.