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[Neonivek]

Hence a lot of the "depends on who you ask" aspect. Especially when you get into cross-culture.

I chalk it up to race being largely made up.

[Dutchling]

Gypsies are interesting. Mostly because everyone in /r/europe seems to hate them.

[Neonivek]

Gypsies are interesting. Mostly because everyone in /r/europe seems to hate them.

There are other groups in Europe pretty universally disliked/hated.

Though Gypsies are certainly one of the more interesting ones because they don't really have a "country" so there is no geopolitical aspect.

[Dutchling]

Well, there's Romania.

Although Romanians do hate Gypsies almost as much as Serbs hate Bosnians and Turks

[aenri]

The culture aspect is why I don't subsume gypsies under white race. Their culture is wholly different than any other in old Yurop. The point was, that it shouldn't be called systemic racism against whites when you are talking about gypsies.
The other point is, it doesn't matter if they did come from India or Iran. Same as blacks in America - doesn't matter if they come from Africa, they are another race and no one would claim that them and whites are one race.

Gypsies are interesting. Mostly because everyone in /r/europe seems to hate them.

There are other groups in Europe pretty universally disliked/hated.

Though Gypsies are certainly one of the more interesting ones because they don't really have a "country" so there is no geopolitical aspect.

Well the whole Europe hate them (and for good reasons), Romanians doubly so because they get mistaken with them a lot (Romas/Romanians). The fact that most of gypsies come from Romania doesn't help.

[scriver]

Roma aren't any less "white" than any other southern European people. Hell, Finnish Roma are just as pale and pasty as other Finns. And you can't really say they're "racist against whites", either. Sure, they're pretty damned suspicious of outsiders and angry at them, but they have a pretty long experience of being used, abused, and generally treated like they're less than rodents, by pretty much all of europe, for hundreds of years. They're extremely defensive, yes, and it's been ingrained into their culture, but any one people would learn to be on guard if they were treated the same way.

And by the way. Defining "white/not white" by culture is a very flawed way both of looking at the world, as well as using the term "white". Race is a faulty enough concept to begin with, but if one is going to define it like that, one might as well call all slavs "non-white".

[penguinofhonor]

does anyone else find that the little revelations in threads such as this have an effect on their happiness?

The whole thing about people claiming a psychologist was... well, pretty much evil because he found experiments saying things to the contrary of what they perceived really bummed me out a fair bit.

Yeah, some things.

Well the whole Europe hate them (and for good reasons)

[Ogdibus]

That's really vague. Who is the psychologist that you are referring to?

[Ogdibus]

It's taking forever to load. :<

[Ogdibus]

Well, I think I get what you are saying now.  I've taken a look at some reactions to his study.  I don't see why there is need for any feminists to object to the findings, even some clearly did.  Some MRAs apparently used it as fuel for conspiracy theories.  If anything it promotes a need to treat people as equals, regardless of sex and gender.   While women are more likely to be injured by domestic violence, laws can be written to account for the results and context of crime, which varies by case.

[Reelya]

Well, there's Romania.

Don't know if joking, but the country name is not drawn from "Romany" it's from "Roman", i.e. self-identifiying with Latin people's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Romania

[GiglameshDespair]

Well the whole Europe hate them (and for good reasons)

They don't have a good reputation, and I think a hell of a lot of people would agree it's well earned. When the police had to force the gypsies off their illegal camps they found slaves inside. When they barricaded themsleves and threw bricks at police for enforcing the law they had the gall to whine about racism and discrimination against gypsies. NO, it's that you aren't allowed to break the law, same as everyone else, in a deliberate and consistent manner.

My friend had gypsies trespass on his land with shotguns and dogs - he had to call the armed response. He lives on a farm - if he leaves doors unlocked gypsies will just wander in and have a look through his stuff for things to steal. All anecdotes so utterly worthless as evidence, but it gives you the idea of how people see them for what they do: steal, break things, leave litter everywhere, and basically are unpleasant in action.

[misko27]

That contributes to my mental understanding of the Gypsy situation being a massive fucked up mess fueled by the desire for cultural homogeneity and plain racism.

Because I hope you realize the situation is several orders of magnitude different in the US. The people of the US really don't know what Roma are actually (as a kid I though Gypsy was a profession, not a heritage), and as a result, there's no bias against them. Apparently, they're concentrated in Oregon.

[Glowcat]

Well, I think I get what you are saying now.  I've taken a look at some reactions to his study.  I don't see why there is need for any feminists to object to the findings, even some clearly did.  Some MRAs apparently used it as fuel for conspiracy theories.  If anything it promotes a need to treat people as equals, regardless of sex and gender.   While women are more likely to be injured by domestic violence, laws can be written to account for the results and context of crime, which varies by case.

A pretty comprehensive takedown of Straus and his methodology was done by David Futrelle here and here. It's a part of his debate with MRAs but there are extensive links to studies throughout which show that research doesn't favor this perception that the severity of domestic abuse is equal (although the frequency is roughly the same).

It's just one of the many flawed studies that MRAs use to dismiss the problem of domestic violence (using it to shut feminists up or otherwise shame them) rather than address violence suffered by any category of people.

EDIT: I should note that Straus also mentions that there is a much greater rate of injury when it comes to man-on-woman domestic abuse than the other way around.

[Vector]

there's no bias against them

Oh yes there is.

~Vector's racist white relatives strike again~