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[scrdest]

You know, I'm having this hunch, a weird inexplicable hunch, that ingesting a high enough to be noticeable dose of androgens to have a noticeable effect is not a good idea for 90% of the forum population.

I'm just lost in understanding that post.
What I got is 'use this drug to test your sex drive.' But I don't get what test he's citing.
...The cause of suggesting it however is >_>

Many of you probably are pro-drug and pro-pot, because that's hip these days, so why not do[...]

No, I got that that totally not in the slightest passive-aggressiveness confused you.

Test - I didn't know either, until I googled it - is shorthand for testosterone, the cypionate part is an additional acid (I think, given the functional groups of testosterone) that is used to estrify the testosterone to make it release slower, so that you don't get a fuckton of androgens in your system, just a shitton.

Basically what he said is 'take steroids, and you will feel like many men do all the time (because of high testosterone levels)'.

[Neonivek]

Well let me see... increasing your testosterone levels gives you an increased libido but also makes you increasingly irritable.

While increasing your estrogen levels doesn't affect libido but also makes you increasingly irritable.

Goodness this actually explains some things about some friends of mine who have been on hormone therapy for either of these.

Progesterone mind you is odd (Of the trifecta of those hormones)... since from what I can gather low amounts decrease libido, and high amounts decrease libido. Though this might be more because Progesterone regulates the other two.

[Gervassen]

I'm saying that a sudden burst of testosterone can expand knowledge and life experience in quite a few male individuals that don't understand other men. Testosterone-cypionate is the most approachable form of hormone replacement, and barely qualifies as a steroid in the doses usually prescribed. Purely remedial. If steroids are illegal in a certain country for some silly scaremongering reason, even there doctors can and do hand out test-cyp to those needing it. It's total weak sauce.

I'm led to believe that many people here are unfamiliar with testosterone. Blatantly false assertions about equivalency between male and female biochemistry brought me to that conclusion. It won't hurt anyone to consider experiencing the hormones that many others naturally feel at higher levels. Testosterone is much higher in men, and is even given to men and women who complain of low libidos.

Men naturally have more of the hormone that is prescribed for increasing sex drive. Humans are not pure intellect. We are each a complex system of biochemisty that includes hormones which can change our personalities in profound ways. If you don't experience high testosterone at least once, then much of what drives male behaviour will be a mystery to you.

As for my background... Nothing medical. I suppose that I was close enough to what you'd call an athletic dudebro when I was young. I took anabolic steroids in a country where aforesaid was perfectly legal. Real steroids like dianabol, too. I know the highs and lows of testosterone. I'd never make the mistake of thinking that male and female biochemistry produces the same levels of muscle or libido.

[scrdest]

You know, I've made two attempts to respond to that, but I cannot express how incorrect many of your assumptions are.

[Gervassen]

You know, I've made two attempts to respond to that, but I cannot express how incorrect many of your assumptions are.

That's alright, bro. I'll manage to live with that. I don't need or seek to be correct according to your level of understanding. Still, I'll make a few clarifications where you've overstepped what I said...

You know, I'm having this hunch, a weird inexplicable hunch, that ingesting a high enough to be noticeable dose of androgens to have a noticeable effect is not a good idea for 90% of the forum population.

Maybe not the entire forum population, but the specific males asserting no difference between men and women in this specific thread are a sample population that might yield much different results. There are levels of hormonal deficiency that are medically treatable, even imperatively so and in the most uptight countries.

As for the part about pro-pot... just saying that many people freak out about steroids, while slyly giving winks to other substances. Hormone augmentation is just another form of experiencing a different state of being that is normally closed to you, no different from other mild drugs with no addictive properties. And for some people, there is an actual deficiency in natural androgens, whereas we never have any natural levels of THC at all.

[Tiruin]

At the moment I'm fully with scrdest in his one post above but...many of the things you said need backing Or more details.

You know, I'm having this hunch, a weird inexplicable hunch, that ingesting a high enough to be noticeable dose of androgens to have a noticeable effect is not a good idea for 90% of the forum population.

Maybe not the entire forum population, but the specific males asserting no difference between men and women in this specific thread are a sample population that might yield much different results.

Like here? Or below...but those are only a few things I've highlighted that stand out for me.

I'm saying that a sudden burst of testosterone can expand knowledge and life experience in quite a few male individuals that don't understand other men. [How? Why? Are there any actions specifically which need a sudden burst? Is there specific context for it?] Testosterone-cypionate is the most approachable form of hormone replacement, and barely qualifies as a steroid in the doses usually prescribed. Purely remedial. If steroids are illegal in a certain country for some silly scaremongering reason, even there doctors can and do hand out test-cyp to those needing it. It's total weak sauce. [Why is it illegal? Common reason?]

I'm led to believe that many people here are unfamiliar with testosterone. Blatantly false assertions about equivalency between male and female biochemistry brought me to that conclusion. [Quote them.] It won't hurt anyone to consider experiencing the hormones that many others naturally feel at higher levels. [So hormone rise equals...what exactly?] Testosterone is much higher in men, and is even given to men and women who complain of low libidos.

Men naturally have more of the hormone that is prescribed for increasing sex drive. Humans are not pure intellect. We are each a complex system of biochemisty that includes hormones which can change our personalities in profound ways. If you don't experience high testosterone at least once, then much of what drives male behaviour will be a mystery to you. [So given the paragraph below, can you please explain it concisely and in detail?]

As for my background... Nothing medical. [Erh? What does this mean?] I suppose that I was close enough to what you'd call an athletic dudebro when I was young. I took anabolic steroids in a country where aforesaid was perfectly legal. Real steroids like dianabol, too. I know the highs and lows of testosterone. I'd never make the mistake of thinking that male and female biochemistry produces the same levels of muscle or libido. [Info backing this?]

Imagine all of us having no knowledge of what you're saying. Could you provide details along the line?

[scriver]

Tiruin, all he's saying is that the guys who disagree with him are feminine whimps that doesn't know what being a Manly Man Man like himself is like.

[Tiruin]

o_O
That's a strange translation.

[Helgoland]

He's right about the biology bits though - hormones have a huge influence on how we act, and there's differences in hormone levels between males and females. Not that I'd necessarily recommend a temporary chemical sex change just to see what that's like, though.

[scrdest]

He's right about the biology bits though - hormones have a huge influence on how we act, and there's differences in hormone levels between males and females. Not that I'd necessarily recommend a temporary chemical sex change just to see what that's like, though.

Well, of course, that's a given, and I will oppose anyone who tries to argue otherwise. But dumb rhetoric goes both ways, and I don't see any reason to prefer any side's dumb rhetoric over the other.

[Reelya]

News item drop! First, underestimated prevalence of sexual assaults against men.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

You might be interested in this article, the guy collates dozens of papers on that very topic, with citations and relevant findings. And the general survey results are strikingly similar to survey results for male rape perpetrator / female victim.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013/09/04/the-startling-facts-on-female-sexual-aggression/

That opens another debate. Is the "male=perp, female=victim" belief itself a product of gendered thinking? Because if you do across the board studies, there's not really much difference between male and female behavior. And for what difference there is, some of that can clearly be explained by male physical strength (if you can do it, you're more likely to do it) rather than a systemic culture. Or short version, there are assholes of both genders, but male strength allows them to get away with this more.

[Reelya]

it happens often enough, so eh.

And yes, that was indeed one of the older ideas. The Greeks believed in that, right?

Actually, that's where the whole "hysteria" thing comes in from Freud's era. It's a point of view that's about a century old o_o

Hysteria, while the cause was wildly (and offensively) misdiagnosed, was the blanket-term for a number of psychological illnesses that are still on the books and are predominantly diagnosed in female patients by a wide margin. Feminist texts on the topic make it sound like something entirely non-existent thing, purely made up to lock away pesky women in madhouses. That might get people appropriately riled up enough for the articles to go viral, but it's not really objective scholarship when you do a bit of research on the topic.

Diseases include:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_disorder 66%~85% female diagnoses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder 75%~90% female diagnoses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatization_disorder up to 90% female diagnoses, depending on the study.

Sure, the "womb problems" diagnosis was totally wrong, but if you're treating the same symptoms in a pile of people and 90% of them are in fact women (since so few men presented with the same symptoms they may have been misdiagnosed, excluding them from the set), then it wouldn't be hard to come to the conclusion that there's something gender-related going on.

[Gervassen]

Tiruin, all he's saying is that the guys who disagree with him are feminine whimps that doesn't know what being a Manly Man Man like himself is like.

Bingo. Scriver, you are a genius. Thanks, man, it felt like I was talking Swahili for a moment there.

At the moment I'm fully with scrdest in his one post above but...many of the things you said need backing Or more details.

Those are a lot of questions, some of which seem obvious. The effects of testosterone are well-known and need no backing or details. Physicians prescribe it to cause exactly the libido changes that some people here have been saying don't happen to normal men compared to normal women. You asked for quotes of those assertions. My first post does quote one of those statements that generated a lot of agreement. That's one of those requests for details that seemed a bit unnecessary.

Athletes also take testosterone exactly to cause changes in muscle mass and endurance that some people here claim is culturally imposed. You'll find that claim on page 1 and other people were sensible enough to disagree with that particular assertion. That was relieving to witness.

Still, the amount of men here unfamiliar with the feelings and behaviours that come with spikes in testosterone suggests that you're missing out on part of manhood. Make jokes if you want, but if you have low testosterone, then that is a real physical state with real physical and emotional consequences that scrivers' flippant joking would have you overlook. If you've never felt invincible and like you could bed the next girl that you stumble across, then you probably never had a surge of testosterone. I seriously think some people here are missing out on a state of being that most men tap into occasionally. Just like any other altered state of consciousness, it's hard to describe. Everything feels possible.

Backing? None. I'm sure that the studies exist, but I don't care to search them. This is not an academic journal. Millions of people have had hormone replacement. The effects are known by the experiences of those people and by the prescriptions of doctors that replicate those effects with the same treatments again and again as needed.

As for AS use for athletic performance, a huge volume of anecdotal evidence floats around gyms and locker-rooms about the effects of testosterone highs and lows. When you use AS, you temporarily lose natural hormone production, so you get a peak high and then a rock-bottom low after the cycle. You feel both sides of the coin pretty hard. I shouldn't talk about that part further, because possible legalities in other countries. But pretty much everywhere, clinically low hormone levels are legally treated.

[Neonivek]

If you've never felt invincible and like you could bed the next girl that you stumble across, then you probably never had a surge of testosterone.

I think there are a few other explanations that might contribute to this factor such as: Being gay, being male oriented Bi, having confidence issues, depression, Being asexual, or never seeing a woman.

Of which 3 of those are very common.

[Tiruin]

If you've never felt invincible and like you could bed the next girl that you stumble across, then you probably never had a surge of testosterone.

I think there are a few other explanations that might contribute to this factor such as: Being gay, being male oriented Bi, having confidence issues, depression, Being asexual, or never seeing a woman.

Of which 3 of those are very common.

...So what I got from that post there was: The more the Testosterone == The more the confidence to bed someone.
...Right?

Tiruin, all he's saying is that the guys who disagree with him are feminine whimps that doesn't know what being a Manly Man Man like himself is like.

Bingo. Scriver, you are a genius. Thanks, man, it felt like I was talking Swahili for a moment there.

[...]Make jokes if you want, but if you have low testosterone, then that is a real physical state with real physical and emotional consequences that scrivers' flippant joking would have you overlook.[...]

Err, the first sentence there really gave off the impression that what he said is exactly what you meant.
Then the next one mixed in all the other declarative sentences says otherwise o-o

No jokes please. In a format such as that, it's easy to miss what you exactly mean.