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[Tawa]

This is basically a continuation of the semi-collective-rant that was going on over at the RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEE thread, the one about gender inequality.

Enjoy, I guess.

[Helgoland]

Mkay. Men and women are biologically different, but each gender has a certain range of attributes, and these ranges overlap to a considerable degree, I guess?

[martinuzz]

Mkay. Men and women are biologically different, but each gender has a certain range of attributes, and these ranges overlap to a considerable degree, I guess?

You are discriminating neuters.

EDIT. Which makes me wonder. Will all public places in Australia be redecorated to fit 3 restrooms? Men, women and neuters? Is a neuter allowed in the ladies' room? Or the men's room for that matter?

For those who wonder wtf I am talking about, Australian law recognizes neuters as an official 3d gender since a week or 2

[Loud Whispers]

Mkay. Men and women are biologically different, but each gender has a certain range of attributes, and these ranges overlap to a considerable degree, I guess?

There is a great range of variability between the genders, and even amongst the genders. We are a sexually dimorphic species, depending on what attributes you are talking about the answer is yes and no.

Now, testosterone helps (HELPS!) build muscles, and given how men tend to have more of it, it means that men would find it easier to put on muscle mass. Women CAN put it on, but men find it easier. (In general. Exceptions to norms and all that.)

Not just that, but it puts a limit on how much muscle can be put on. Hence why you can see shit like a TV presenter punching harder than a professional female boxer or just compare any elite athletics between the genders. You can get fit teenage boys with the genes competing at an Olympic women's standard in things like weightlifitng and the track events.

[kaijyuu]

Our dimorphism is rather low compared to most apes. The differences are mostly irrelevant; no matter what you can do well, there's at least one man and one woman who can kick your ass at it (barring a few very specific things, like baby-making).


Anyway, wasn't this discussion about wage disparity apologists? Or was it about how feminism "isn't needed" these days? I'm certain we can rack up the misinformed sexism rather quickly if we stay on one of those tangents. I'd rather talk about something else though... Equal opportunity objectification was a fun topic; I want more man candy (though with a decent character to go with it).

[Eagle_eye]

Mkay. Men and women are biologically different, but each gender has a certain range of attributes, and these ranges overlap to a considerable degree, I guess?

Not in any meaningful way. There are obvious physical differences, but strength above a no working out baseline is pretty much obsolete in the western world. Mentally, it's still pretty hotly in contention in psychology whether there are any inherent differences at all, and if any do exist, they're so much smaller than the total variation that they're negligible.

[Loud Whispers]

Our dimorphism is rather low compared to most apes. The differences are mostly irrelevant; no matter what you can do well, there's at least one man and one woman who can kick your ass at it (barring a few very specific things, like baby-making).

Or anything that is physically demanding, which is not a very specific thing. In the Western world at least, there aren't many physically demanding jobs outside of the emergency/armed services though, so it is little noticed. There is also the notion that even our preferences of careers and many of our lifestyle choices are instinctively based on our gender, which goes at some length to explain why countries like Norway and Sweden still manage to get the traditional split of genders to careers in spite of it micromanaging its efforts with the zeal of a DF player to get a 50/50 representation in all fields.

Anyway, wasn't this discussion about wage disparity apologists? Or was it about how feminism "isn't needed" these days?

Maybe, I just walked into this conversation when it started going into biology. Chances are, if you want to find someone who can kick your arse, you're going to find a lot more men than women capable of doing so.

Not in any meaningful way. There are obvious physical differences, but strength above a no working out baseline is pretty much obsolete in the western world. Mentally, it's still pretty hotly in contention in psychology whether there are any inherent differences at all, and if any do exist, they're so much smaller than the total variation that they're negligible.

We cannot make such statements with surety either way. I suggest we present our opinions as opinions until we bring facts to back them. If I sound blunt, forgive me, I am tired.

[Muz]

I bet this semi-joke thread will turn into a srs flame thread by page 3.

[Tack]

I'm a Chauvanist!

[Loud Whispers]

I bet this semi-joke thread will turn into a srs flame thread by page 3.

You implying it's not already?
The ride never ends my friend.

[Helgoland]

Why do we try to differentiate between biology and (deeply engrained) culture, anyway? It's not like either has normative character*, and influencing people goes both ways**... I guess it's a common fallacy (looking at you here, Rousseau) that there's some sort of 'uninfluenced' a priori decision that must be protected - if a guy wants to become a firefighter because it agrees with his idea of masculinity, why stop him?

*Meaning we should not judge based on either.
**Enforcing a strict 50/50 gender split is, at least ideologically, just as bad as traditional sexism. Hooray for liberalism!

[Strife26]

Mkay. Men and women are biologically different, but each gender has a certain range of attributes, and these ranges overlap to a considerable degree, I guess?

Not in any meaningful way. There are obvious physical differences, but strength above a no working out baseline is pretty much obsolete in the western world. Mentally, it's still pretty hotly in contention in psychology whether there are any inherent differences at all, and if any do exist, they're so much smaller than the total variation that they're negligible.

Wow, you must live in a very strange western world compared to everyone else. Also in a psychological one if you're calling basic differences at a negligible level.

[Loud Whispers]

Why do we try to differentiate between biology and (deeply engrained) culture, anyway?

Because biology doesn't give a fuck about your culture, biology is biology. I find it frivolous that people try to explain the differences in muscle gain between men and women using sociology.

[Helgoland]

Article on the wage gap (or absence thereof). It's the Wall Street Journal - beware of bias.

[Cheeetar]

Wow, you must live in a very strange western world compared to everyone else. Also in a psychological one if you're calling basic differences at a negligible level.

Your grammar got a bit confused there. Anyway- would you like to present some of the examples you see as the inherent differences between how men think (they're from mars, and thus like red things etc.) and how women think?