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Should humans get several civs, based on RL civs? (Asian/Western/Arabic/etc) Only one would be active by default, but players can chose to enable more or play as different ones.

Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.
Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.
No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.
No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

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Author Topic: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode  (Read 157769 times)

Meph

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #270 on: July 17, 2014, 01:16:20 pm »

I had an overabundancy of wood on my test fort, because I embarked in a forest with 5 woodcutters, and constantly had 5 wood splitting blocks running. But the 8 to 1 block ratio for stone is planned, which was mentioned somewhere at some point. ^^
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FearsomeClarinet

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #271 on: July 17, 2014, 03:04:16 pm »


- Casino: Never found a good way to write those wiyh raws, but warmist was working on some fancy idle-script, that allows idle workers to do jobs themselves... like playing games.
- (Major idea: Make use of this script to make idle humans a good thing. The more idlers you have, the more they use gambling, shops and the merchant stalls to generate income for you.)

I can just imagine the large amount of jobless deadbeats in human towns.
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Arcvasti

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #272 on: July 22, 2014, 09:21:25 pm »

Just finished some playtesting of Humans. Their trade-based system works fine and is well made. The wholes license and coins side of things seems well balanced. It seems to me that the most effective way to make money[Bar renting out a ton of merchant stalls] is to buy stone at the stone stall and sell stone crafts at the craft stall. Except the craft stall didn't have any reactions. Neither did the Tavern. I'm assuming that the Tavern's lack of reactions was just because the Humans are unfinished, although all the other local trading stalls had reactions, so the craft stall's lack of them might have been a mistake. The Human cave-adaptation is a PAIN to deal with. Just building normally is WAY too difficult. 8 to 1 block ratio would help, but you would have to GET stone in the first place. The Carpenters Guild Sawmill requires you to have gold, which you can only really get via renting out stalls, which you can’t do until at least second Spring. I only manage aboveground stuff with Kobolds because they have leather and bone blocks aplenty by mid-game and have a decently accessible sawmill. Plus, they don’t tantrum, so getting dining rooms and dormitories isn’t a priority. Eventually, I ended up channeling out rooms from aboveground, removing the ramps, roofing it over and then putting in whatever I wanted in that room. Because there was no way I was making enough blocks to make actual buildings[I found out about the 100 granite block test reaction in the still later. Even then, I would have had to run it 2-3 times to actually build even a basic wall around some workshops with a dining hall and a dormitory, let alone roof it off to protect from fliers.]. So Humans DEFINITELY need a way to make absurd amounts of blocks. The 25 marble or obsidian blocks reactions in the Humans trade stall seemed like they were on the right track, but were super overpriced[100 gold pieces PER INDIVIDUAL BLOCK? THE HELL IS WITH THAT?] Maybe add in a buy 25 granite[Or another more common stone] blocks to the Human stall for half the price of the current buy 25 marble/obsidian block reactions?[Or even less. But that might tip the balance too far the OTHER way.] Also, adding in a "clear workshop" reaction to the local stalls would help immensely. I spent a lot of time constructing and deconstructing the local trading stalls to look at their reactions. The sell leather for 150 copper actually gives you 500 copper, for the record. Not sure if you can actually make a reaction give less then that. If that’s the case, I recommend buffing the yield on selling rarer types of leather. Also, THANK YOU for letting us sell bags of feathers at that stall. They usually just sit around and annoy me with their clutter after I murder a bunch of flightless birds. And I ended up with a steelclad horse as one of my pack animals. I butchered it and melted down its steel armour thing for 10 whole steel bars. Since steel is supposed to be mid-late game tech for Humans, this seems like an exploit.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #273 on: July 23, 2014, 09:23:47 am »

Just finished some playtesting of Humans. [Bunch of stuff cut out because it was a really long message]
Building supplies will probably be less of a problem in the future when every tree you cut down gives you over ten wood. About the stone, I remember the idea of buildings a big quarry being mentioned, did you try that? I haven't been able to play humans yet, but if quarries aren't good then maybe the cave adaptation should take longer to come into effect.
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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #274 on: July 23, 2014, 10:10:00 am »

I haven't gotten my hands on humans for any playtesting yet, but just as a thought ... what about the "ethereal gate" that warlocks use for some things as an inspiration for a large "quarry" building?

What did the ancient Egyptians use to get lots of stone? Bread and beer! Consume some bread and booze as part of the reaction, and then maybe a 90% chance to lose your mining pick and I'd think running a continuous reaction on a building to produce stone blocks might be acceptable.
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moseythepirate

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #275 on: July 24, 2014, 04:40:37 pm »

What did the ancient Egyptians use to get lots of stone? Bread and beer! Consume some bread and booze as part of the reaction, and then maybe a 90% chance to lose your mining pick and I'd think running a continuous reaction on a building to produce stone blocks might be acceptable.

The problem with this is that you need to have an industry (namely, farming) in order to produce your stone, when having large amounts of building materials are required to get your town off the ground. The solution needs to be something that can be done immediately upon embarking. Good thinking, though.
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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #276 on: July 24, 2014, 05:19:48 pm »

Haven't you ever heard the expression, "Rome wasn't built in a day?" :)

I'm just thinking of how real human cities develop. First it's a village, then it's a town, then it's a city.

I'm looking forward to playing humans. Seems like there's a lot of good stuff in there. Initially I thought they'd be kind of bland, not being a fantasy race, but it looks like "bland" has been well and truly fixed.
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moseythepirate

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #277 on: July 24, 2014, 05:55:07 pm »

Haven't you ever heard the expression, "Rome wasn't built in a day?" :)

I'm just thinking of how real human cities develop. First it's a village, then it's a town, then it's a city.

Well...yeah. But the problem is that you need lots of stone for even basic facilities. For example, a 6/3 dorm/dining hall (which is pretty small, and would need to be expanded upon very quickly) would require...
*BOOPBEEBOOPBEEEPBEEP*
22 blocks for the walls, and 20 for the roof. That is just one small building that you need within the first season. What about giving all humans their own home? Or building a warehouse to keep your goods safe? Or a wall around the town? This isn't skyscraper material here but those migrants aren't going to wait for a nice, reasonable growth. This isn't like the Warlocks, where you get two migrant waves and then you can call it good. You are going to need to constantly expand, and you can only build up and out...while, I suppose you could do what Arcavesti did and hollow out basements, but that's hardly "human-y."

But hey, there are lots of solutions to this problem. Maybe you could have early game reactions that make large amounts of stone blocks to get started, and later game reactions that make skull-crackingly silly amounts of...concrete?
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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #278 on: July 24, 2014, 06:04:04 pm »

Hrm. That is rather a lot of stone. It would seem like, in most areas, stone is going to be the secondary building material with people relying mostly on wood.

I foresee lots of tenement housing in human towns.

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Samarkand

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #279 on: July 24, 2014, 07:07:55 pm »

Once we go to v40 you'll have more than enough wood to erect housing. Alternatively, clay huts.
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moseythepirate

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #280 on: July 24, 2014, 07:12:14 pm »

Once we go to v40 you'll have more than enough wood to erect housing.
You know, I hear a lot of people say that, but I don't want to have to embark in a forest, you know? Any race that requires you to embark in certain conditions is one that needs work, if you get what I'm saying.
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Guthbug

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #281 on: July 24, 2014, 07:25:39 pm »

Once we go to v40 you'll have more than enough wood to erect housing.
You know, I hear a lot of people say that, but I don't want to have to embark in a forest, you know? Any race that requires you to embark in certain conditions is one that needs work, if you get what I'm saying.

PARTICULARLY humans, I would think, who are known for their adaptability.

I, for instance, live in a desert. Not that much wood. Many of the buildings we have built here on the farm use sand as the base of their construction. Sand bags. Fill them up with sand, stack them up, and then put a roof on it and you have a very good building. It'll last hundreds of years and stays 10 degrees cooler than everything else because of the thick, earthen walls.

I would think that having multiple building materials would lend a very interesting air to humans.
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LMeire

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #282 on: July 25, 2014, 01:58:33 am »

Personally, I think the key to to human housing should be opportunism and adaptability, not "one plan fits all" designs and metrics. There's a 4000 year-old city in northern Africa where each multistory townhouse is made entirely of unfired clay, villages along the amazon river are sometimes little more than a wall-less stilt-huts made from woven reeds; before the industrial era, the only times anything was regularly built with stone or metal was either for the rich, the religious, or the military. If your embark site has lots of trees, build with wood. If you have a clay layer, build with either raw clay or earthenware bricks. If your embark site is excellent for farming grasses and vines, build with thatching. Lack all three, mix up some concrete like the Romans did. etc.
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Meph

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #283 on: July 25, 2014, 02:38:18 am »

Personally, I think the key to to human housing should be opportunism and adaptability, not "one plan fits all" designs and metrics. There's a 4000 year-old city in northern Africa where each multistory townhouse is made entirely of unfired clay, villages along the amazon river are sometimes little more than a wall-less stilt-huts made from woven reeds; before the industrial era, the only times anything was regularly built with stone or metal was either for the rich, the religious, or the military. If your embark site has lots of trees, build with wood. If you have a clay layer, build with either raw clay or earthenware bricks. If your embark site is excellent for farming grasses and vines, build with thatching. Lack all three, mix up some concrete like the Romans did. etc.
Clay/mud walls, earthenware/stoneware bricks, thatch/wicker, wood... thats all available already to them. :)
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moseythepirate

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Re: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« Reply #284 on: July 25, 2014, 11:24:44 am »

Personally, I think the key to to human housing should be opportunism and adaptability, not "one plan fits all" designs and metrics. There's a 4000 year-old city in northern Africa where each multistory townhouse is made entirely of unfired clay, villages along the amazon river are sometimes little more than a wall-less stilt-huts made from woven reeds; before the industrial era, the only times anything was regularly built with stone or metal was either for the rich, the religious, or the military. If your embark site has lots of trees, build with wood. If you have a clay layer, build with either raw clay or earthenware bricks. If your embark site is excellent for farming grasses and vines, build with thatching. Lack all three, mix up some concrete like the Romans did. etc.
Clay/mud walls, earthenware/stoneware bricks, thatch/wicker, wood... thats all available already to them. :)
Perhaps the humans could have means of mass-producing blocks of all materials? You obviously need to have the raw supplies, but they are a thrifty bunch, and can make the materials stretch in ways the other races don't.
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