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Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.

Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.

No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.

No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

[omniclasm]

I voted yes for the different humans.

However, I was thinking more along the lines that the playable civ would just be medieval European, and the others would be an extra option for world gen, like Drow currently are. I think if you're going to make different cultures, they should be thoroughly different rather than just having a workshop that makes katanas instead of broad swords.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Yeah I'd suggest only being able to play as two types of Humans (one being western all the time as it's like the vanilla humans) then you can activate and pick the second. After that the others become either friendly traders or hostile invaders (depending on the settings)

[moseythepirate]

I am unsure about the guilds. Western-only, or part of the basis for all? (guilds in atztecs or vikings makes no sense...)

I would argue that whenever there is a civilization, skilled craftsmen would band together. Guilds by any other name and all that. Also, it would be a pain in the bum to try to balance having a key feature that only some cultures have.

[LMeire]

Had they lasted long enough without Western interference, I've no doubt that the Aztec/Inca/Iroquois would have eventually had something resembling the guilds and trade companies of Europe. They already had taxation, specialized labor, and artificially valued currency, it wouldn't have taken much to bureaucratize it a bit.

Plus, I'm pretty sure Scandinavia had tradeguilds, even if they aren't as famous for it as England and France.

[MDFification]

I am unsure about the guilds. Western-only, or part of the basis for all? (guilds in atztecs or vikings makes no sense...)

I would argue that whenever there is a civilization, skilled craftsmen would band together. Guilds by any other name and all that. Also, it would be a pain in the bum to try to balance having a key feature that only some cultures have.

There were guild-like organizations in India and East Asia, historically. Essentially, any organized, urban society can develop a guild-like structure given enough time.
I mean historically guilds were just another racket. You get some craftsmen together, and they beat up anyone who'd threaten their business and construct a monopoly.

[Stiefel]

While thinking about human ideas myself, I personally enjoyed this direction just to add ideas to the discussion.

A very imperialistic group devoted to purging the land of the unclean for the greater will of god. A huge focus on a christianity like religion, but with an even more extreme devotion to it, fantasy style, almost similar to some of such religions among humans in Warhammer. Human branding of religious runes, clergy, devotion above all else. I pictured a 19th century russian appearance/weaponry, great coats, ushankas, huge bardiches/melee weaponry and muskets/gunpowder weaponry. Huge focus on masonry and carpentry, mining allowed, but less or no living underground, lack of sun = depression. I pictured possibly similarities to Khador of Warmachine. Also of course, vodka. You could also take all of this and mix it with a germanic steel knight reiksguard type of deal.

I also got the idea of a human crusader-civilization type idea, except they would model actual medieval crusader states like Kingdom of Jerusalem, Antioch, etc. Humans already have crusader helms, so why not? Plus, with the tech apparently being somewhere around the 15th century, we could easily imagine them with roughly the same battle tactics and weaponry as the Knights of St. John. I'd really like a monotheistic and hyper-religious theocratic civilization for a change.

But please don't throw in ninjas and samurai and all that crap. Maybe some Asia-inspired tech like repeating crossbows and primitive rocket launchers, but any further would be just too out of place in my opinion.

[Meph]

Stiefel, why are middle-eastern crusaders fine and samurais are not? Both are highly specialised things from a specific time and place... 14th century earth had both. Robots or Neandertals would be out of place, but why Asians?

In the general modding thread someone even suggested doing Japanese, Chinese, Mongolians, Indians and Polynesians seperately. 5 civs, all Asia.

[Traece]

I'm a bit late in this discussion but I'll toss in my two cents. I think the biggest issue is finding enough diversity to warrant branching new human civs at all.

Take Feudal Japan and Medieval Europe for example. Both are differentiated by location and culture. Beyond that they use swords, spears, farm and keep animals, and build above-ground structures. They're also both noble-based societies. They're basically vanilla humans, except Japan would have katanas and buildings made of wood, bamboo, and paper. The same goes for the Middle East in that time period, which doesn't differ much. Vikings are a bit more unique, and the trade republics of the Mediterranean Sea are the most unique of the lot.

You could go through the trouble of statting out all those different weapon/armor/building material assets for a bunch of roughly identical medieval-period (ballparking here) civilizations, or you could go with something a bit more fantasy.

Why not a magic-based human race, and a normal medieval-style human race? We have Warlocks, so why not a race of human Archmages that summon golems and elementals, living in towers made of marble by their various constructs? Or perhaps the archmages just use the golems and elementals for defense, and count on their townsmen to do all the work? It could even employ a command structure that's not noble-based, such as some sort of ruling council.

In short, you could maintain a normal vanilla-style medieval human race, and then create a fantasy-based melding of the Warlocks and said vanilla humans.

[Delta_02_Cat]

A race of human Archmages would be really cool!

[Vabalokis]

I hope cats and dogs will comeback.

[Stiefel]

Stiefel, why are middle-eastern crusaders fine and samurais are not? Both are highly specialised things from a specific time and place... 14th century earth had both. Robots or Neandertals would be out of place, but why Asians?

In the general modding thread someone even suggested doing Japanese, Chinese, Mongolians, Indians and Polynesians seperately. 5 civs, all Asia.

I wouldn't mind a separate Asian civ, but I think it would be out of place for samurai to be fighting alongside knights for example. I just don't know how you're going to do that unless you're going to make separate raws for separate civilizations, which would require making them entirely separate races to my knowledge.

Also, media with fantasy settings tend to have a fairly Eurocentric representation of human civs. Not that I'm against Asian civs being in the game alongside European ones, but I just think a lot of people would be uncomfortable without some European-esque human civ.

[Gamerlord]

Frankly I would be happy if we kept humans 'Western' and maybe added a few more Eastern influences to the Orcs. Kinda annoyed that I can't make wazikashis, nodachis and other such things in that mode to be honest. But back on topic, iI just feel that a Northern European, Roman or Russian setup would be good for humans; for some reason I just can't help but see my Warlocks as Western European.

Just a thought on how playing them feels/would feel.
Dwarves- Colonial Britain. Seriously.
Elves- Sorta Celtic but also a bit like Natives from Oceania.
Goblins- Their slavemaking and the colosseum they unlock in kobold mode (Is that still a thing?) makes them kinda Romanish - as in the Romans at their worst and most depraved.
Drow- No idea.
Orcs- The Orient, Japan, Mesoamerica
Warlocks- France, Germany, etc.
Gnomes- Sweden obviously.
Kobolds- They seem very 'tribal African' to me.
Frost Giants- Not enough info.

And that leaves humans. I reckon maybe a basic medieval, Viking or maybe even a Mongol setup. Maybe all three.

Stiefel, why are middle-eastern crusaders fine and samurais are not? Both are highly specialised things from a specific time and place... 14th century earth had both. Robots or Neandertals would be out of place, but why Asians?

In the general modding thread someone even suggested doing Japanese, Chinese, Mongolians, Indians and Polynesians seperately. 5 civs, all Asia.

I wouldn't mind a separate Asian civ, but I think it would be out of place for samurai to be fighting alongside knights for example. I just don't know how you're going to do that unless you're going to make separate raws for separate civilizations, which would require making them entirely separate races to my knowledge.

Also, media with fantasy settings tend to have a fairly Eurocentric representation of human civs. Not that I'm against Asian civs being in the game alongside European ones, but I just think a lot of people would be uncomfortable without some European-esque human civ.

If you want samurai try out Orc mode. They do a pretty good 'honour' thing.

[Stiefel]

If you want samurai try out Orc mode. They do a pretty good 'honour' thing.

They do have the whole bushido thing down pretty well, but Japanese culture is also known for quality craftsmanship whereas orc craftsmanship is quite frankly shit.

I think the violet/silver xelics from the Civ Forge mod would make a great Japan-inspired civ. Two arms on each side makes for dual-wielding katanas and the exoskeleton makes fairly decent armor. Really deadly.

[Gamerlord]

If you want samurai try out Orc mode. They do a pretty good 'honour' thing.

They do have the whole bushido thing down pretty well, but Japanese culture is also known for quality craftsmanship whereas orc craftsmanship is quite frankly shit.

I think the violet/silver xelics from the Civ Forge mod would make a great Japan-inspired civ. Two arms on each side makes for dual-wielding katanas and the exoskeleton makes fairly decent armor. Really deadly.

The orcs have the Damascene Forge as well as the Ancient Forge. They can make sone elegant stuff.

[Stiefel]

The orcs have the Damascene Forge as well as the Ancient Forge. They can make sone elegant stuff.

They can make some good-looking stuff, yet what they mass-produce is patchwork rusty steel armor. Japanese armies were usually fairly small (as was the case in most feudal societies) with quality gear (even the peasant and vassal soldiers looked fairly decent). Orcs in most fantasy settings tend to be about quantity over quality. Of course the elite soldiers are going to have some nice equipment, but the average soldier is going to be covered in old sheet metal.