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Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.

Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.

No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.

No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

[lcy03406]

You can set all races to good and get a bunch of caravans too.  I fail to see why this is a problem. Nothing says that the various human variations have to match perfectly when it comes to trade either.

So will you set some of humans to evil, or tolerant a bunch of caravans? Will you prefer all them come at summer, or come one after another and whole year along?
It's not a big problem, but what's the benefit to do so? You want to buy some large kimonos? You want to equip your army with katanas and scimitars on half and half?

While we have "Simple XXX" options to wipe out unnecessary vanilla objects for higher FPS and neater UI, I don't understand why we should throw 5 times of such things in.

[Meph]

I feel like you have been ignoring this part:

One generic/medieval human race on by default. The others are disabled and people that like these cultures can add them and play as or with them.

None of the points you list as cons are a problem, because the default mod settings would have one human race with steel, knights and muskets, just like they have now. Only people that like multiple caravans or a specific type can enable this.

Renaming nobles, replacing sprites and language file and adding 2-3 unique workshops will take one day per race, not more. As I said, its not a lot of work. If I could do this procedually in one entity file, I would. But as it stands you would get a wild mix of everything. Steel paladin helmets and leather loincloths on ninjas that wield scimitars.

PS: 90% of the items, graphics and language files exist already, either in mdf or other minor mods in the forum. Its only a matter of putting them together.

[Meph]

Poll about religion:
44% pantheon/procedual.
30% rl christians
15% no religion features
11% as meph wants to do (for now: none)

Looks like everyone wants something else, as always 44% for pantheon, 30% for "god" and 26% for no religion ( besides the worshipping in the unit description)

I added a new poll, about the RL civ idea.

[IndigoFenix]

How about making the default civ a combination, with all the armor and weapons taken from the different cultures, so they wind up with a random assortment of cultural elements that will be different each time?

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Armor I believe is randomized but weapons and shields are accepted im sure "all" the time but im not 100% on that statement. So you'd more or less have invaders and such just dressed randomly for gear but using the same weapons all around, a katana wielding centurion anyone?

[Meph]

Possible and maybe even an interesting way of chaos, but only for traders or sieges. Not for a playable race that makes many items in custom reactions and has many custom workshops. I will just wait a few days, for people to vote and see where it goes. In the end the community decides, as they are the ones who will play it.

[LMeire]

I don't see why the different human cultures have to be separate. Orcs have just as much variety in their designs, and they seem pretty unified. (Going by the presence of early-game Aztec weapons, mid-game Arabic Caravanserai, late-game Japanese weapons, and the overall theme resembling pre-Charlemagne Europe.)

[lcy03406]

I feel like you have been ignoring this part:

One generic/medieval human race on by default. The others are disabled and people that like these cultures can add them and play as or with them.

None of the points you list as cons are a problem, because the default mod settings would have one human race with steel, knights and muskets, just like they have now. Only people that like multiple caravans or a specific type can enable this.

I'm happy with that. I always play in the default settings so it's OK.

And you will disable all the additional items by default so I won't have a dwarf who wish to consume sake, and I won't have to scroll a long list to find superior zweihanders?

Apologize for my nervousness, adding 5 or 6 races is a big thing as I understood.

[blapnk]

It is something prone to feature creep, it could just be as simple as different names for nobles and a few flavour items but it could expand further and further.

[Meph]

So far we have 31 Yes, 10 Maybe and 3 No. (for multiple RL civs)

The major points for No are:
- Not procedually generated (unfortunately modders cant do that, only Toady can)
- Too many civs at a time (can be toggled in the GUI, only one active by default)
- Feature Creep (True. They would share the same basic features among all human civs)
- Too much work (I estimate one extra day to give civ-specific features, so 5-7 days of modding)

I think it would be a good idea to open a new thread in the general modding area and invite people to post ideas for different civs. I would update the first post with a list and the features that could be added for each. The thread here would continue about the "default mdf humans" the western knights, muskets and trader/guild idea, which has been discussed so far. This would be the race thats active by default and gets the biggest attention in terms of features and balancing.

[LMeire]

About the "multiculturalism"- that is, humans inviting other races to live in their cities. What if you used a sort of "pet" for the races, like livestock that none of the caravans would carry? (Or if they did carry them it would be because that particular caged person did something to get exiled and the caravan didn't trust them out of the cage.) To skirt around their not being able to work, I'm thinking that you can make them lay "eggs" that are called "dwarven/orcish/elven work procedures" which could then be used to build their unique workshops and/or produce race-specific items. The tokens could expire relatively quickly, necessitating a constant supply in the form of a large population.

Actually, is it possible to have only certain castes of a race lay eggs? (Or to have males lay "eggs", for that matter?) 'Cause I just thought that the whole "humans-occasionally-having-other-races-as-kids" thing could be explained away with adultery or maybe the idea that in MWDF, humans themselves are a thorough mix of all the other races combined. ("An orc baby? Why you must take after your great-great-maternal grandfather! Let's name you after him.")

[danmanthedog]

Do you need help modding the Civs Meph because I think that every body would willing to help you?

[moseythepirate]

I think the important thing about multiple human civilizations is to make sure that it doesn't get to time consuming to make...it's more important that we get humans than get 5 different flavors of human. I really want the multiple different civs, don't get me wrong, but...baby steps?

[MDFification]

Not sure if this has already been suggested, but slavery is enabled for vanilla human civs and was common throughout history. Perhaps some uber-complicated slavery mechanics (with potential revolts or required slave-specific religious facilities, for example) can be implemented?

[Meph]

I dont need help, but it would be nice to have, especially when people have good historical knowledge or already finished Raws to offer.

I plan to only do 2-3 civ specific workshops each, which comes easy to me by now. Nothing complex. The rest is just the creature and entity. Two files and a few buildings are not a lot of work. It should give a basis for other modders that can add many more smaller parts if they want to.

I am unsure about the guilds. Western-only, or part of the basis for all? (guilds in atztecs or vikings makes no sense...)

Slavery I would suggest as main feature for either Goblins or Drow, not humans.

Egg laying cross species pet-orcs/goblins/elves: Ehm... No. Being able to call all caravans, building race specific workshops and maybe spawning the odd off-race civilian to hang around has to be enough.

EDIT: Made that topic in the general modding section, lets see if others people want to chime in or not.