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Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.

Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.

No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.

No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

[Hotawotwot]

A civ-exclusive siege cannon would probably be nice.

[kingu]

I like the ide of mass producing blocks/bricks

If a race it to be a real choice to play over dwarfs they will need to be better at certain aspects. not just "dwarf fortress with handicap". Perhaps a focus on better building above ground would make humans the choice for aove ground megaproject players?

I play kobolds now but only for the added challenge. It really just feels like a way to make the game harder since they dont reallt have any advantages. Just like a "hard" setting

[danmanthedog]

Same here I play kobold for a challenge but some times its to annoying when they get killed off by forest spider.

[kamikazi1231]

A civ-exclusive siege cannon would probably be nice.

I agree about siege engines.  The humans could be a good opportunity to expand the already added custom siege engines, refine them, and add others.  I'm personally thinking slow firing net launcher that on impact stuns, knocks down, and possibly spawns a web.  I guess I just picture humans as above ground cities with walls, so a siege engine like that might be useful with their wall defenses.

[Arcvasti]

I play kobolds now but only for the added challenge. It really just feels like a way to make the game harder since they dont reallt have any advantages. Just like a "hard" setting

Personally, I find kobolds EASIER then dwarves. They can't tantrum, don't need to hit stone to be relevant, have absurd food surplusses because jack rats breed so much , don't need alchohol and have  relatively easy access to iron-grade armour and weapons without even using a thieves tunnel. Their only real disadvantage is their size, and they have ways of mitigating that. It seems more like easy mode to me and I've played kobolds a lot. I've only stopped playing them because Warlocks.

Back on topic, Humans should be natural farmers and masons and carpenters. Those are the main areas I would think humans would be better at. Plus they're larger then dwarves, so they'll be better in combat, so no steel seems fair[Maybe until you unlock a certain dwarven workshop?]. I love the idea of a trade-based tech tree[It would fit right in]. Being really good at cooking would fit too. I think it might be neat if there was a workshop[Accounting Offices?], which unlocked certain DFhack-enabled managerial benefits[Not quite sure what, but there probably some possible ones] if you can meet its randomized "mandates". That sounds like it would be possible, in theory.

FAKEEDIT: Siege engines sound really nice and themetic too. I'm in favour of those.

[danmanthedog]

Okay I agree on no steel armor and siege engines too but what about weapons now?

[Arcvasti]

Okay I agree on no steel armor and siege engines too but what about weapons now?

Maybe the normal people should have a small penalty to anything which isn't a spear or a pike? While the knights and squires are better with swords and maces. They should also have some way to get a bunch of cheap weapons quickly in case of emergency conscription. My suggestion is have a workshop that creates a bunch of copper-grade pitchforks and gives all nearby workers a combat buff, but have the pitchforks dissolve after a while [Sort of like the Ethereal Forge weapons do with Warlocks] and have it run the siren script. It stops parties and breaks, gives basic weaponry and rallies the peasants. Great for when your pathetic 3 Knight militia got killed by a goblin ambush and you need to DRAFT EVERYBODY BEFORE WE ALL DIE! But the "troubled by lack of adequate protection" and "complained about the draft" thoughts mean that the peasants will be unhappy about it. Also, some way to have the workshop deconstruct once its used[Some workshops which AREN'T supposed to do it deconstruct after use, so its possible] and maybe have a limit of only using its effect once every 3 months or something.[Not sure if this is possible] Maybe make the workshop tedious to re build once its deconstructed itself? The pitchforks would need to be valueless and not be usable in reactions.

^This sounds like a cool idea which I think would work with humans. If it doesn't fit, it might also be suited for kobolds.

[lcy03406]

Humans should be natural farmers and masons and carpenters.

Masons I don't think so. Humans should not be better manson than dwarves.
If humans need cheap building materials, I think bricks and concrete blocks are better.
Carpenters Yes. Usually humans don't make chairs from stone, tables maybe, bins unthinkable, cabinets sometimes from bricks. So there should be a lot of work for carpenters.
In addition, humans should be good potters. Humans can make porcelain pots and jugs which are as light as woodwork and do not cost too much fuel in the process.
Humans don't smooth and engrave stone floors. They build high value floors with wooden boards and porcelain mosaics, usually above ground.
Humans should make concrete blocks from stones, not slags.
I think humans should be more like humans, not just "dwarves in easy mode". Sticking in wooden furniture makes it a little harder to maintain a good relationship with elves. Porcelain definitely needs more steps than stonework. But that's more realistic, and more fun.

[LMeire]

Small idea here: since humans wouldn't be living underground, they'll probably miss out on the room-value-boosting engravings that make nobles somewhat tolerable for every other race. So I suggest replacing wall and floor engravings with "paintings", a 1x1 decorative building that has to be placed adjacent to a wall, and "rugs" a building that can be placed anywhere. Idea is that rugs and paintings are decorated with history, nature, and themes in a similar manner to engravings and artifacts, they'd be made at a craftsman's workshop with cloth and dye and constructed to enhance the value of aboveground rooms.

[danmanthedog]

Okay I agree on no steel armor and siege engines too but what about weapons now?

Maybe the normal people should have a small penalty to anything which isn't a spear or a pike? While the knights and squires are better with swords and maces. They should also have some way to get a bunch of cheap weapons quickly in case of emergency conscription. My suggestion is have a workshop that creates a bunch of copper-grade pitchforks and gives all nearby workers a combat buff, but have the pitchforks dissolve after a while [Sort of like the Ethereal Forge weapons do with Warlocks] and have it run the siren script. It stops parties and breaks, gives basic weaponry and rallies the peasants. Great for when your pathetic 3 Knight militia got killed by a goblin ambush and you need to DRAFT EVERYBODY BEFORE WE ALL DIE! But the "troubled by lack of adequate protection" and "complained about the draft" thoughts mean that the peasants will be unhappy about it. Also, some way to have the workshop deconstruct once its used[Some workshops which AREN'T supposed to do it deconstruct after use, so its possible] and maybe have a limit of only using its effect once every 3 months or something.[Not sure if this is possible] Maybe make the workshop tedious to re build once its deconstructed itself? The pitchforks would need to be valueless and not be usable in reactions.

^This sounds like a cool idea which I think would work with humans. If it doesn't fit, it might also be suited for kobolds.

Yeah that militia building sounds like a good idea, Also since the humans in dwarf fortress are Mediterranean

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I read the posts right

then it could be put in new swords based around that culture area. Also how good are pitchforks in battle?

[Meph]

Workshops (rugs/paintings) dont increase room value, only furniture does that.

Here is an idea from me:
Make a basic human template. A civ with traders and guilds, and copy it 5 times.

Asian (japanese/chinese) with katanas, kimonos, sake, dojos, martial arts, and japanese language file. Nobles called shogun and daymio etc. Their kidnappers and thieves could be called ninjas.

Western (britons/french) with halberds and longbows, steel, muskets and cannons. Nobles named king and dukes etc.

Southerners (greek/roman empire) with gladius and legionnaires. Togas and sandals. Latin language files. Nobles are ceasar and praefects and the senate.

Arabs (ottoman/persian) with kaftans, turbans and scimitars. Mass mud brick manufacturing, great doctors. Nobles called Sultan and grand vezir.

Amerindian (atztek/maya/inca) with bows and spears and macautlis. Shamanism and blood magic (human sacrifices and all that) and nobles called high priest and god king.

Other options: African tribes. Germanic/barbarians. Vikings. Mongolian hordes. Egyptians.

The basic idea: The human race is the same, but the weapons, graphics and noble names change, and each different culture gets 2-5 unique workshops. Its not that much extra work, and with the gui you can mix them up as you like.

Play as Westerners with early Amerindian Invaders, buy your steel from the Roman Legion to defend agains late Arabic invaders while you get visits by japanese ninjas (lvl15 thieves, like kobolds but more dangerous)

Or just enable one of them, the one you like most.

It would be a neat community project as well, because smaller parts can be done by different people. If you have good historical knowledge or always wanted to do 1-2 things for a specific mod like vikings or japanese, that would be the perfect oppurtunity. Once I finish the basic workshops that they would all share, it would be simple to split them into different cultures by a few small additions.

[danmanthedog]

Hm I just need to learn about modding in depth but about American part of humans I was wondering since they used obsidian a lot over there will we be incorporate that into their culture?

Edit- I might be able to mod in obsidian weapons for them.

[Hotawotwot]

Given how humans are not meant to have the ability to create steel, I believe the Arab culture should get a pattern weld smith capable of using a variety of metals, given the history of Damascus Steel (though in reality the steel used to make the swords was made in India).

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Workshops (rugs/paintings) dont increase room value, only furniture does that.

Here is an idea from me:
Make a basic human template. A civ with traders and guilds, and copy it 5 times.

Asian (japanese/chinese) with katanas, kimonos, sake, dojos, martial arts, and japanese language file. Nobles called shogun and daymio etc. Their kidnappers and thieves could be called ninjas.

Western (britons/french) with halberds and longbows, steel, muskets and cannons. Nobles named king and dukes etc.

Southerners (greek/roman empire) with gladius and legionnaires. Togas and sandals. Latin language files. Nobles are ceasar and praefects and the senate.

Arabs (ottoman/persian) with kaftans, turbans and scimitars. Mass mud brick manufacturing, great doctors. Nobles called Sultan and grand vezir.

Amerindian (atztek/maya/inca) with bows and spears and macautlis. Shamanism and blood magic (human sacrifices and all that) and nobles called high priest and god king.

Other options: African tribes. Germanic/barbarians. Vikings. Mongolian hordes. Egyptians.

The basic idea: The human race is the same, but the weapons, graphics and noble names change, and each different culture gets 2-5 unique workshops. Its not that much extra work, and with the gui you can mix them up as you like.

Play as Westerners with early Amerindian Invaders, buy your steel from the Roman Legion to defend agains late Arabic invaders while you get visits by japanese ninjas (lvl15 thieves, like kobolds but more dangerous)

Or just enable one of them, the one you like most.

It would be a neat community project as well, because smaller parts can be done by different people. If you have good historical knowledge or always wanted to do 1-2 things for a specific mod like vikings or japanese, that would be the perfect oppurtunity. Once I finish the basic workshops that they would all share, it would be simple to split them into different cultures by a few small additions.

but what about graphics for each? and custom castes etc. As each race should have bonuses, My suggestion is this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:HUMAN]
[NAME:human:humans:human]
[CREATURE_TILE:'H'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[DOES_NOT_EXIST][INTELLIGENT]
[PREFSTRING:evolution at its best]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
[ALL_ACTIVE]

This just holds all the materials as all humans have the same well materials.

then create a custom human creature for each ASIAN, WESTERN, GERMANIC, ROMAN, PERSIAN. This allows you to use custom sprites, castes, descriptive features, etc. but keep the clutter of materials down, like "this is a splattering of asian blood, and a pool of western blood" it'd just be all "human blood" less of course it's a named creature, but that's not a new material just a named material.

you probably meant this by the comment:

The basic idea: The human race is the same, but the weapons, graphics and noble names change, and each different culture gets 2-5 unique workshops. Its not that much extra work, and with the gui you can mix them up as you like.

why not allow them all at once? and just let the GUI disable/enable the playable feature?
and since custom entities can easily make sure that there are enough places for all races (humans, bolds, elves, FD races)

[Avacado]

If you're worried about rooms having a low value due to lack of engraving (and relative lack of stone assuming you're not doing a dedicated quarry), why not add the ability to make smoothed/polished/lacquered wood planks for higher base material value furniture?

Another potential idea is to make various reactions that take in raw materials like lumber, boulders, (nails?), etc, and produces a number of "bricks" of a high value construction type.

IE: 5 lumber + Iron Nails (tool) produces 25 "Crossbeam" bricks, which then would show as Crossbeam walls or floors (or roads or bridges I guess).

It would be a neat community project as well, because smaller parts can be done by different people. If you have good historical knowledge or always wanted to do 1-2 things for a specific mod like vikings or japanese, that would be the perfect oppurtunity. Once I finish the basic workshops that they would all share, it would be simple to split them into different cultures by a few small additions.

I would personally love to mod a scandinavian variation of the base human template.