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[MoLAoS]

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed so far, but talisman fragment rarity doesn't appear to be based strictly on random generation. I was playing an early field a while back, and I got two talismans while playing the map normally. One was a 17, and the other was a 19. Once I beat the level, I continued on in Endurance mode, hoping to get more talismans. I did not. However, when I was ultimately destroyed several waves later, the talismans were instead 31 and 33.

Well this game is pay to win and you paid for the magician's pouch thus unlocking endurance mode. I mean, you can pay 15$ for all premium features plus 50k shadow cores and then easily steamroll the game.

[LordBucket]

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed so far, but talisman fragment rarity doesn't appear to be based strictly on random generation. I was playing an early field a while back, and I got two talismans while playing the map normally. One was a 17, and the other was a 19. Once I beat the level, I continued on in Endurance mode, hoping to get more talismans. I did not. However, when I was ultimately destroyed several waves later, the talismans were instead 31 and 33.

Is that reproducible? I don't have premium,but from your description it sounds to me like the rarity boost value of enduance mode is +14 and it's applied retroactively. If so...can you farm fragments by:

1) Set a hard difficulty and rarity boost. For example, field F1 on glaring with 4 traits at 7 plus rarity boost for a net rarity range of 11 to 39 (+10)
2) Start playing the map
3a) If you're in danger of dying, options -> restart map, so you don't lose shadow cores for nothing
3b) If you get a talisman drop, immediately suicide, continue on endurance, suicide again to bump the fragment by an extra +14
4) Collect your talisman with final value of 11 to 39+10+14 = 35 to 63?

If that works, I'd suggest doing it a bunch now before it gets nerfed.

this game is pay to win

If endurance is a free +14 to talismans...yeah, that seems excessive.

[MoLAoS]

Got glaring. Not sure the extra trait cost in shadow cores is worth the bonuses it provides. Just ran into my first premium field. L1. so lame.

[Drammor]

Is that reproducible?

I have reproduced this four times now. However, I'll explain a little further after I answer some questions.

I don't have premium,but from your description it sounds to me like the rarity boost value of enduance mode is +14 and it's applied retroactively. If so...can you farm fragments by:

1) Set a hard difficulty and rarity boost. For example, field F1 on glaring with 4 traits at 7 plus rarity boost for a net rarity range of 11 to 39 (+10)
2) Start playing the map
3a) If you're in danger of dying, options -> restart map, so you don't lose shadow cores for nothing

Is this a bug? SC cost should apply only if you win a map (like in says in the pre-map briefing).

3b) If you get a talisman drop, immediately suicide, continue on endurance, suicide again to bump the fragment by an extra +14

This won't work. To move on to endurance mode, you must beat the map in its totality, first.

4) Collect your talisman with final value of 11 to 39+10+14 = 35 to 63?

If that works, I'd suggest doing it a bunch now before it gets nerfed.

this game is pay to win

If endurance is a free +14 to talismans...yeah, that seems excessive.

About that. I paid 800 SC to get +10 to my next 8 cores, played through a map and got the following talismans:
Edge Fragment
15 rarity
+6% slower killchain counter cooldown
+0% of wizard level to starting xp and mana

Corner Fragment
16 rarity
+9% maximum beam charge
+0 initial mana


Then, I opted for endurance mode and played until I lost. My two fragments now looked like this:
Edge Fragment
25 rarity
+5% of wizard level to starting xp and mana
+0% slower killchain counter cooldown
+0 initial mana

Corner Fragment
26 rarity
+17 initial mana
+0% maximum beam charge
+0% damage to reavers


However, when I went to overland screen and tried to enter another map, I found that only my next 4 fragments would get +10. Apparently, what happened here is that a pair of fragments were popped at 7 and 9 rarity, and the +10 was applied to each. Then, when Endurance was started, the game checked for fragments, found two, and applied the +10 to each. Therefore, this is a bug and we can expect it to be fixed soon.

In the meanwhile, I'm going to abuse farm the unholy milk and honey out of this bug and see if I can't get a look at some high-rarity fragments.

[Trevasaurus]

Ahhh so thats how it works! I was just about to say that I just went to lvl 97 on a map and my fragment didn't change from the rarity 6 it was when I finished the vanilla version. Doesnt seem too game breaking since it still costs the same number of cores for +20 regardless of how you do it.

Edit: So it seems that shrines are pretty ridiculous..... got a gem enchancement shrine during the early waves while my gems were still low level and managed to push the damage way higher from some big combos. The result :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Seems like getting +1,000 to max damage at low level multiples to a huge degree as the gem levels. Made it to wave 110 before the 50M+ Giants tore through my lines.

[IronyOwl]

In the meanwhile, I'm going to abuse farm the unholy milk and honey out of this bug and see if I can't get a look at some high-rarity fragments.

Heh, I look forward to this.

[Drammor]

He fixed the bug. No more grinding for super fragments. And of course, my computer did an automatic restart, so there's no avoiding it. It was okay while it lasted, I guess, but now I'm having that older issue, such as in which my range was supposed to be 8-33+10, and I got only a 24, and how this has been a permanent trend.

[LordBucket]

Doesnt seem too game breaking since it still costs the same number of cores for +20 regardless of how you do it.

Me, my 2900 shadow cores and my average fragment level of 21 would be delighted to be able to pay 200 cores for +20. As is, I'm paying 168 for traits+glaring, and another 100 for the rarity boost, for fragments that are routinely in the 19-22 range. Though I expect tht by the time this comes to kongregate where'd I'd planned on getting premium this will probably be fixed.

gem enchancement shrine

Ahh. Well, that was fast.

now I'm having that older issue, such as in which my range was supposed to be 8-33+10, and I got only a 24, and how this has been a permanent trend.

Again, fragment drop ranges are clearly not evenly distributed. "19-45" means  19-22 half the time and 30-35 once in a great while. Not sure if intentional or bug, but I've farmed thousands of shadow cores worth of fragments on field F1 with settings that should give me drops in the 19-45 range, but my highest fragment is rarity 35. Which I'm kind of suspicious about since it's exactly the 10 less that one would expect if the rarity boost simply wasn't working.


Actually, now that I think about it I don't remember ever getting anything over 19 when I was farming with rarity boost but no battle traits. I think the +10  might only be applied on the lower end. 9-35+10 means, roll  9-35, and any value between 9 and 18 gets a +10. That explains why drops on the lower end of the range happen so often. A 19 fragment is twice as likely to drop as a 27 fragment, for example, because if you roll a natural 9, it adds +10, but if you roll a natural 19 or 27, the 10 isn't added.

If so, that means the rarity boost might give no benefit at all if you're trying to farm high level fragments, because it doesn't increase on the high end, only the low end. If all your fragments are 10 or more than the minimum range for the field+traits, rarity boost would give no extra chance of gaining fragments of higher level than that.

Unable to look at the code, but that seems to be the behavior.

gem enchancement shrine

Ahh. Now that I can use.  Gem enhancement shrine at J1.

[Drammor]

If no one else has done this yet, I thought I'd share some findings. I emptied out all of my skills and created a handy quick reference list for which gem to use and when.

Code: [Select]

Grade 1 test
Color     Damage     Range    RoF      Special
Red       12-20      4.6      0.66     1.18 chain hit
Orange     8-16      4.5      0.54     0.39 mana per hit
Yellow     8-22      4.6      0.60     11% for 1.35 damage
Green     10-20      4.6      0.63     +5 damage over 9 seconds
Cyan       6-24      4.4      0.63     Suppress 13 hp/minute
Blue      10-24      4.5      0.63     15% slow for 2 seconds
Purple     6-22      4.3      0.66     1.23 armor per hit
White      9-27      4.5      0.66     +0.022 damage&special multiplier per pool level
Black      8-27      4.7      0.60     +0.036 damage&special multiplier per hit level


Grade 6 test
Color     Damage     Range    RoF      Special
Red       117-223    6.8      1.51     1.66 chain hit
Orange     85-182    6.7      1.24     1.95 mana per hit
Yellow     84-237    6.8      1.37     23% for 2.75 damage
Green     103-226    6.9      1.44     +53 damage over 9 seconds
Cyan       63-260    6.5      1.44     Suppress 41 hp/minute
Blue      101-251    6.7      1.44     47% slow for 2 seconds
Purple     65-246    6.4      1.51     6.62 armor per hit
White     110-335    6.6      1.51     +0.056 damage&special multiplier per pool level
Black      98-287    7.0      1.37     +0.055 damage&special multiplier per hit levelPlease keep in mind it's hard to see what the minimum for poolbound at these levels actually is, since to create a grade 6 white gem without allowing your mana pool to rise above level 1 would be very tedious and quite probably very hard.

Also, this game gets much easier once you have Poolbound. 2W-1R-1O is a great combination. Beam will give you a positively tremendous number of hits for leeching mana, which will simultaneously increase both your gem grade capacity and mana pool level, and both red and white have some of the highest damage and rof rates in the game. 2W-1K-1O might also be a good choice, if you can do something about the lack of chain hit in the early waves, but I haven't found Bloodbound as a skill, yet, and all of the level with black, orange and white at the same time are too far in for me to have time to focus on analyzing data just yet. Before Poolbound, though, 2G-1R-1B worked as a... decent damage gem.

And, I just snagged a 48 fragment. Before and after, here it was:
Edge Fragment
Rarity: 48
Upgrade level: 0/6
4% chance that gem bomb blasts summon +1 gem wasp
+0% damage to swarmlings
+0 initial mana
+0% heavier orblets
+0% of wizard level goes to initial xp and mana

Upgrade level: 6/6
12% chance that gem bomb blasts summon +1 gem wasp
+13% damage to swarmlings
+87 initial mana
+27% heavier orblets
+16% of wizard level goes to initial xp and mana

So far, this is the rarest fragment I've found. It's orange.

[LordBucket]

damage gem

You appear to be looking only at raw damage though. I routinely see over 30% for 5 times damage from gems with a yellow component.

this game gets much easier once you have Poolbound

Which field unlocks it?

EDIT:
Pre or post nerf? Apparently there was another patch.

[MoLAoS]

Is it just me or is black WAY better than white?

[Drammor]

Yeah, MoLAoS... I was mistaken. I'll fix that. It should say "hit level."

You appear to be looking only at raw damage though. I routinely see over 30% for 5 times damage from gems with a yellow component.

Which field unlocks it?

EDIT:
Pre or post nerf? Apparently there was another patch.

Yes, I am looking at raw damage. I haven't experimented with yellow, yet, because I haven't found the skill.

I don't remember which field unlocks it. I think it's L6, but this was so early in the morning... sorry. I just plum forgot to record it.

Looks fine post-nerf, images of me on M1 using only 2 gems to beat it:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I did this field on Glaring, with Mana Lock, Corrupted Banishment, Haste, Swarmling Domination and Orblets maxed out. I was level 95 when I started it, and had 14 True Colors, 12 Masonry, 14 Fusion, 11 Mana Stream, 13 Bolt, 3 Mana Leech, 8 Poolbound, 14 Beam, 3 Chain Hit, 13 Barrage and, 3 Amplifiers on my skills, with enough spare skill points to create two towers, a grade 4 2W-1R-1O and a grade 3 of the same when I started the level. It turns out I didn't need the second gem. It stayed grade 3 until the end, and was eventually popped into an amplifier for the first one.

My talisman looked like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

However, you might like to know that the reported talisman range was 17-49+10, but that the two talismans I got were 24 and 27. So, something is definitely broken, there.

[MoLAoS]

Just broke 100k mana. Then I just farmed the mana shards so that I also hit 300k. Sadly you only get an achievement for 100k. One manashard had 187000 mana. I use a single black orange hybrid amped by 4 black orange hybrids at level 5. No use raising the level of amp really. By the time I hit 100k mana I was letting a single monster run around eternally. Dude ended with a 50k banishment cost and 800k health. Lol. My highest gem level was 11. I guess I should have levelled it again in the hopes of getting another achievement but ah well.

[Toaster]

Posting to watch.  One of those games I tried to get in to a couple times, but couldn't for whatever reason.  This one seems to be doing better so far.

[MoLAoS]

I think I'm done with this game. I'm sorry but the grind involved in shadow cores so that you'll pay money and the stupid limitations on skills and traits for the same reason pisses me off.