Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[redwallzyl]

i just have to say this. it is just flat out wrong for people to treat this person like hes pure evil just for this one personal belief whoever much you disagree with it hes still a person. he can have opinions, you can have opinions but don't crucify each other over them.

[Leafsnail]

Being made to resign from a high status job: comparable to crucifixion

[Gunner-Chan]

You know I'm really tired of people treating proposition 8 as if it was just an opinion. Proposition 8 was not a political party, it was not a harmless movement. It was an effort to actively prevent a certain group of the population of the united states from having all the rights of others. It's something that existed only to actively hurt people and infringe on their rights.

This doesn't make Eich a monster, it makes him a rather flawed human being but not a monster. But it shows a strong sense of conviction on an issue the mozilla themselves have said they don't discriminate against. Not to mention, javascript was made around 1995 apparently. And then seems to have been shifted away from his direct hands on involvement shortly after. I can't find anything else he did afterwards so... I don't get how this man maybe not getting hired again as a coder means anything. He hasn't been relevant for years.

Interestingly, now that he's gone there's conservatives and some libertarians complaining about it now. Damned if you do and damned if you don't I guess.

[redwallzyl]

Being made to resign from a high status job: comparable to crucifixion

not the job the way people are treating him and each outer over this issue just look at this thread it descended into pitiful back and forth insults. this thread should be closed.

[kaijyuu]

Well first off, "having an opinion" does not grant immunity from criticism (quite the opposite). Freedom of speech requires both the ability to express opinions and express opinions about opinions.

Secondly, be careful of any argument approaching promotion of "tolerating intolerance."

Third, you're probably right about the bickering.

Fourth, on the scale of how people are treated, being verbally lambasted is pretty minor compared to promoting denial of marriage rights and stigmatization of sexual orientation.

[Playergamer]

Being made to resign from a high status job: comparable to crucifixion

not the job the way people are treating him and each outer over this issue just look at this thread it descended into pitiful back and forth insults. this thread should be closed.

Personally, the fact that no one's been compared to Hitler yet astonishes me. Not saying Bay12 does that, but... Godwin's Law... I just lost, didn't I?

[Gunner-Chan]

I think you can mention the law without invoking the law. A bit like saying you could jump off a building, but not actually do it.

[kaenneth]

He wasn't just forced out of his job, there were also the usual nutjobs in any mob threatening his life/family/etc.

The Internet Hate Machine doesn't have a throttle.

[Moghjubar]

Perhaps one should think of it like this... /sets up comedy routine

"The only thing I'm intolerant of is intolerance because if we tolerated intolerance then everyone would be intolerable and no-one could tolerate that."

That said, I didn't exactly agree with his opinions, but its not the level of the Chik-fil-A spend-money-on-Ugandan-gay-killers-as-policy thing.  People of course have the right to boycott who they want to for any reason (or I guess threaten to, as really Mozilla Firefox isn't a thing you actually have to buy or use or whatnot). 

---sent from my Chinese Slave labor device and oppressed workers systems, over the legal-monopoly ISP lines

[GlyphGryph]

Well first off, "having an opinion" does not grant immunity from criticism (quite the opposite). Freedom of speech requires both the ability to express opinions and express opinions about opinions.

Secondly, be careful of any argument approaching promotion of "tolerating intolerance."

Third, you're probably right about the bickering.

Fourth, on the scale of how people are treated, being verbally lambasted is pretty minor compared to promoting denial of marriage rights and stigmatization of sexual orientation.

There's a difference between criticizing someone and punishing someone. This wasn't criticism - it wasn't even an attempt to silence. It seems to have been a strictly punitive intent.

We try to get better. [...] Not only is he not trying to get better, he was trying to make things worse.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. No, most people do not "try to get better". Most people will defend their evils to hell and back, justify them however possible. Sometimes they are tricked into getting better, sometimes they are dragged kicking and screaming into getting better, and sometimes they simply go with the flow and change their opinion as the opinions around them change...

And I actually do know many of the people responsible for a good chunk of the software I use. Not all of the individual contributors maybe, but the people who tie it all together, who made it happen... yeah.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

As I heard it, the three board members who "resigned in protest" were actually two retirees and one corporate transfer who all turned in their resignations before this even started.

[Glowcat]

I'm going to just chime in and say that as the public face of a company, his views aren't just his own. This has been said, but it seems to have slipped past people that his views effect the public face of the company and effect those who see those views coming from yet another figure in power. To say that people do not have the right to oppose this is... questionable to say the least. At what point was this guy getting such a valuable job his basic right as a human being? He's not being forced into poverty here... people are opposing his status as a leader. Yet apparently that's the greatest sin of our time.

[Skyrunner]

But he had those opinions 6 years ago (supposedly?) even before he was CEO... how long must history follow you around?


Reading through the whole thread, I feel that basically two ages-old ways of thinking-- ends justifies the means vs do it right or not at all--are colliding here :v

[Frumple]

... dunno how long it must, but I can say how long it does, which is basically forever these days. You put up a drunken selfie on a facebook equivalent when you're 18, it may lose you a job when you're 30, especially if you don't run damage control (which this guy apparently didn't, as others have noted). Six years is penny ante junk, and the proverbial shoe is on the metaphorical other foot -- it's a CEO getting shitlisted for previous life actions instead of a ground-level employee. Like it or not, this is basically the direction the US society is going.

I've been hearing a lot about "Total person" in the business classes I've been trudging through. Basically companies getting interested in what people do in their off time -- ostensibly so they can predict and work with outside-work disruptions in the workplace and make sure employees are managing a decent work/life balance (so they can work better, of course). But stuff like this is the other side of that. Companies in the states are increasingly saying, "Yes, if you want this job, I get to have input in your off hours." There's been folks fired because nicotine came up in a drug test -- not because they were smoking on the job, but because they were using nicotine products at all. Job applicants get regularly refused because something off-colored shows up in a facebook post or whathaveyou. This is basically the results of companies suddenly realizing what you do and what opinions you hold in your off time most definitely effects what you do (or, more accurately, what they can get from you) on the clock, and that if they want the best performance (from the company's perspective, anyway) they're going to have to meddle like goddamn, and they're going to judge like hell about what you did six, sixteen, sixty years ago. Regardless of whether it's good, bad, or ugly, it's how things are heading toward becoming in this place.

[Sheb]

But that was 6 years ago. If he made a speech while CEO saying "You know, gays are evils", yeah, sure fire him if you want. But that was a donation 6 years ago. Is he supposed to spend the rest of his life suffering for that?