Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

It was a good run! Fun, too.

3 (42.9%)

I learned things.

1 (14.3%)

I WON!!!

3 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 7

[lijacote]

Well, that's up for us to decide. Typically, in the framework of the rules that have been presented, NAPs aren't binding, and they have no set definition (which is a part of the problem with them, they often lead to bad blood when there's no agreement). I've seen them used in the sense that you agree to a NAP, and the players agree on a turn limit on breaking the NAP. For example, you could agree to a NAP-3, and agree that that means that you agree not to attack each other, and if any party wants to break that pact, they have to wait for three turns after breaking it before attacking.

In Machiavellian diplomacy, you can give someone gems/items in order to secure their loyalty/friendship, but that doesn't bind them in any way to be your friend or ally. That's different from "hey want to trade 20 gems for a dwarven hammer?" – I think this is because there's no function mechanically to trade items, it's just giving and hoping for the best. Personally, I do think that NAPs and other non-material trades should be breakable and not-binding. That's a major part of the tension and the draw of the game (for me).

Regarding public diplomacy, and what you wrote, HopFlash: would you say no to private dealings in addition to the council business? I'm totally into writing Darkwind into a sort of neutral cherubic character to comment (in verse) on the game, by the way.

[HopFlash]

Regarding public diplomacy, and what you wrote, HopFlash: would you say no to private dealings in addition to the council business? I'm totally into writing Darkwind into a sort of neutral cherubic character to comment (in verse) on the game, by the way.

hmm...then the council would only be a RP platform...I think the most deals would be still in private.
I'm not sure about it...all are relative new and exciting options for me

Long time ago I played Space Empires 4 with several RL friends and there were several extraordinary public relation people (not professional) on work in our game forum. There were RL espionage and intrigue going on but beside these public forum diplomacy (primary propaganda and provocations ) there were private messaging/talking all time.
So much is possible but I think you can't force a game to be like this

I think if we want some more storytelling the no private is better. If we want ambushes and intrigues then we should go with private messages.

Curious what the others want to play

[GP Trixie]

Hey, I would be interested to be the 6th player of this game. I already posted in the round 4 disscusion, but 2 games should be manageable anyway. I never did a MP game before so I don't have really any opinion on the rules.

[lijacote]

Welcome! I'm sure it won't become too hard to play two games, especially since they're different in size. I'd expect this one to end a lot faster than the disciple game.

[HopFlash]

Welcome! I'm sure it won't become too hard to play two games, especially since they're different in size. I'd expect this one to end a lot faster than the disciple game.

perhaps not if we have public diplomacy going on...where we all life in peace until our pretenders die of old age

[tompliss]

if so...how long is there cool down time? if I want to break it how long do I have to wait until I can attack you again?

The best way is to give you an example.
In the 4.02 round, I was on an island and proposed a trade with the nation on the other side of the "ocean" (2 provinces in the shortest route) : He would provide me the air items that let me bring 50 units in the sea, in exchange for a big pack of gold and a non-agression pact for a full year. The NAP part was because if I did this move alone (or with the help of another nation), it could have easily been interpreted as the promises of an invasion.

[HopFlash]

ok...no global NAP (or other treaty) cool down timer...all details to the diplomancy parties then

[Shadowlord]

Is this patch that we are apparently waiting for coming out Real Soon Now, or Real Soon Now in Valve Time, or does anyone even have any idea? (Is there a reason we're waiting for it?)

[lijacote]

It's supposed to be coming this week. That's what one of the two developers said. We're waiting because it will have one or two new nations, and some nations will have new pretenders. It's also somewhat of a pain to patch a game midway through, when there's a chance for mismatched .2h files and other shenanigans.

[Shadowlord]

Ah. That makes sense.

[lijacote]

Scratch that. Actually, the new nations are scheduled to happen later. My bad.

I think I will finish the Caelum stuff during the easter break.
It might turn into a flier mod with caelum fixes + one or two new flier nations.
I have the concepts clear, so it is mainly the spritemaking and the descriptions that need s to be done on the new nations.

From last week, we've got another post from the same Kristoffer:

Version 4.05 is just receiving some final
testing then it will be released. If nothing unforeseen happens it
should be available in a week or so.

The new version will have the changes from the progress page (there are quite a lot of them) minus the caelum related stuff. The Caelum update is not finished yet and I thought it was better to put that in the next update than to wait any longer. The biggest new feature is the story event mode that enables random events that requires more interaction than usual and/or has really powerful effects. It's still a beta feature, so don't enable it in serious multiplayer games.

[lijacote]

Spoiler: Patch notes (click to show/hide)

    GAME
        2 magic items will now accelerate aging
        A map could appear twice in load maps, fixed
        AI forge improvements
        Added a few names for Marverni females
        Aging remade so magic items can protect from magic aging effects
        Alt+home = select prophet
        Banfire bow no longer armor piercing
        Battle music did not stop when pressing 'q' during zoom in.
        Battle orders weren't ignored during manifestation
        Better era sorting in View Pretenders screen
        Blood feast affliction wasn't permanent.
        Boots of the Messenger reinvigoration 2 -> 3
        Bunch of maps didn't support wrapping properly
        Button to change province name color in map editor
        Can click on flags on network screen, right click gives info
        Celestial Chastisment didn't enslave
        Choose item from magic item treasury screen when sending message
        Dark skies had -1 penalty in non dominion too, fixed
        Dementia could not be healed, fixed
        Description fixed for Oceania and more
        Disabling animated background removes nebulas too
        Don't get an arena prize you already have
        Draw size fix for retinue
        Ethereal didn't help vs maggots spell
        Fire and death bless arrows now requires a hit to take effect
        Fix scrollbar when choosing nation to play
        Fixed bug in random numbers
        Fixed darkvision for water queens.
        Fixed heightfield clipping bug (visible on the lower planes)
        Fixed starting age for Golem and some other constructs
        Flags and timer shown during network play
        Forest Troll Tribe summons 15 trolls and cheaper
        Gave a lot of maps black province names
        Green highlight on allies when choosing receiver for message
        Grey out all spells that cannot be cast due to terrain requirements.
        HP capped at 10000.
        Hidden in snow can now be cast in border mountains too
        Hill Giant got 'grab and swallow' attack
        Ice weapons are not affected by fire bless
        Improve event message for curses
        Improved detection of dead prophets
        Improved information for targets of Wrath of God and some other powerful spells
        Improved victory screen
        Improved weapon info
        It was possible to start underwater with overwater nation on Talis map.
        Item levels were incorrectly added regarding random event magic boost.
        Items in forge that are too high level are shown, but greyed out
        Krakens got recuperation.
        Lifeless weren't immune to Bloodletting
        Made two magic raising sites unique
        Make sure old arena prizes don't get put in the lab
        Many stat fixes
        Many typos fixed
        Map fixes (wrong terrains and incorrect connections)
        Message when God is recalled
        More restricitive showing of the map raid symbol.
        Need not eat canceled gluttony and supply bonuses, fixed
        Never create provinces with no exits
        New look for elf shot
        New pretenders: Maharishi, Raksharani and the Celestial Carp
        New province names
        New tips
        New weapon effect: Lesser swallow (can only be used on human size or smaller)
        No seperate messages for items found after battle
        Population cap to prevent overflow
        Press 'i' for province info and history
        Press 9 to show province names on map in map editor
        Pretenders and some unique monsters knows more spells when independent
        Print actual worth of thrones from when game was started
        Print heal effect in site info.
        Red numbers for Vortex of Unlife too
        Robe of Caelium the Druid resistances 5 -> 10
        Sanitize filenames before saving maps
        Scale Walls ability for some assassins
        Sea Trolls and Sea Dragon got darkvision
        Sea province size didn't work for Bunch of random maps.
        Seasonal mages
        Shift+click to reverse AI difficulty selection
        Shift+tab to go backwards in graphs
        Shrinked affliction was not properly permanent
        Speed up particle effects too when fast forwarding
        Sprites from summon sprites shoots instead of doing a flying charge
        Starting client with --ipadr cleared old connections.
        Story events
        Support for fancy 4K resolutions
        Swallowed units are killed hard at end of battle.
        T'ien Chi also gets indep commander at PD 20.
        T'ien Chi will no longer get land troops in underwater PD.
        The Iron and Silver throne spreads 2 dominion
        The hero Sialuk got his proper name now
        Thrones are now sorted by dominion spread
        Transformation ritual could result in a shapeshifter eagle
        Umbral summons corrected
        Vafur flames improved
        Very easy research setting
        Victims of random event assassins didn't disregard orders
        Volume setting no affects 'new turn ready' sound too
        Whip of command commands more but gives morale penalty
        Wraith Lord commander for ghost riders is back
    MAC
        Changed OSX priority for finding data directory
        Mac version no longer default to multiple cpus for AI processing
    MODDING
        #defector should work now
        #iceprot always had 2 as value
        Commands #onlygeosrc, #onlygeodest, #likesterr, #hatesterr didn't work
        Different maxages for shape changer forms now only prints a warning
        New commands: #deathpower and #deathrec
        possible to combine e.g. #nodemon and #noundead
    OTHER
        AI AI improved item distribution
        AI AI improved research item creation
        AI AI improved thug creation

The celestial carp pretender is oriental, so peoples like T'ien Ch'i and Jomon can play him. The raksharani is a death/nature/blood raksha pretender available to bad monkeys like Lanka, while the maharishi (thanks tompliss, I totally forgot about him) is available to all monkeys. Very interesting, all of them, I think. Not sure which one is scarier of the first two.

So with the patch here, we can start the game without issue. I'll draft the final game settings and approve them with you, and then you can begin sending your pretenders. I'd like for the game start either today (on the ninth) or tomorrow, at the latest on Friday, so I hope you're not too confused about what you're picking! If there's any help you need, I'm sure there's a lot of advice available here, so don't be afraid to post! If it's top secret, I'm available for private consultation. I am shit, though, so there's that.

[tompliss]

Both Maharishi and Raksharani are for monkeys ?

so Trixie can choose his nation, I'll say that I'll go for Oceania or Pangea, with greater chances of Oceania. Will need some final pretender testing this evening for the final decision

[lijacote]

Era: Early
Map: Biddyn
Players: Six
Hall of Fame Entries: 15 (up from 10)
Special Site frequency: 50 (up from 45)
Score graphs: Off
Renaming: On
(Story events aren't available on Llamaserver right now, I think, but I think we might be better off going without them for the moment)

Mods: Worthy Heroes

Victory by thrones
Seven thrones available, four points required for a victory. All level one thrones, and custom placed.

Diplomacy:

Both public and private diplomacy are available. For intrigue, plotting and backstabbing, we recommend the private option. For awesome roleplaying, visible alignment and letting the audience enjoy your game, we recommend public diplomacy. The more interesting/entertaining stuff on the thread, the better. The admin will give you points for roleplaying.

You may invent whatever context for the roleplaying as you wish, but the game starts from the council chambers.

Only purely material trades (gold for gems, gems for gems, items for gems etc) are binding, while alliances, NAPs (using whatever definition), and others are not.

Additional notes regarding your play:

If you want to go AI, ask for permission first. We'll try to find you a substitute player before letting the AI wreak havoc on the game. If you're not going to get your turn done in time, send me a PM or post on the thread, and I'll try to sort out an extension for you.

Once this has been passed, I'll edit the first post to reflect our state.

[tompliss]

Is the "Score graphs: Off" option only for the Llamaserver part, or is it also for the in-game graphs ?

As for the other options, I think they are OK. 3 thrones for victory may be a little bit low, but still OK.
(I mean, I could go for Pangea with a dragon pretender, pump minotaurs and stealthy centaurs, go grab 2 thrones with the Dragon and minotaurs and catch a third one with the centaurs and a prophet. And I'm sure other nations could do that too :p )

I would go for 4 out  of 6, or even 4 out of 7 (an extra throne so we can have a nation with a lead even in the beginning ).

EDIT : you can use this link ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137585.msg5166425#msg5166425 ) in the first message for the pool