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Author Topic: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2  (Read 8642 times)

Girlinhat

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2014, 02:58:34 pm »

So, been dabbling, noticed a few peculiarities with the game, not sure if I'm missing something or if it's just the game showing its age.

Formers on automate seem somewhat unreasonable, as they tend to do things like take a pure crystal source and put a farm on it, so I get 1/2 instead of 0/5...
Giving one unit an order will sometimes end my turn completely.
Things seem heavily focused on letting governors and automated units run things, but they don't work in very clearly understandable ways and that seems to take away the purpose of having a computer player.
Finding, selecting, and ordering units seems to be a major hassle.

There's also poor information on some things, like what does a borehole do?  What does an echelon collector thing do?  What happens when I drill to aquifer?

Am I flat out missing things, or is this just one side effect of being an older game?

Loud Whispers

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2014, 03:08:18 pm »

Formers on automate seem somewhat unreasonable, as they tend to do things like take a pure crystal source and put a farm on it, so I get 1/2 instead of 0/5...
Former AI is rather incompetent. I think there is a patch for it somewhere, but I just use formers manually.

Giving one unit an order will sometimes end my turn completely.
You can turn this off in the game preferences, one of the sub menus has the option to "automatically end turn when no units have move" or something along those lines, turn that one off and you're fine.

Things seem heavily focused on letting governors and automated units run things, but they don't work in very clearly understandable ways and that seems to take away the purpose of having a computer player.
Automated scouts are all right, and the governor is actually pretty good [though you do want to keep a close watch on it, or just change the advanced settings to make sure it can't possibly cock anything up].

Finding, selecting, and ordering units seems to be a major hassle.
In what way?

There's also poor information on some things, like what does a borehole do?  What does an echelon collector thing do?  What happens when I drill to aquifer?
Datalinks [F1] or the help menu will tell you all of this, there are also tutorials in the game. The initial scenarios will also teach you these things. There's also a wiki, which is invaluable as usual. Boreholes give you a maximum of 6 minerals and 6 energy per worked borehole, but also have the side effect of causing a crap ton of ecological damage and even cause global warming. Echelon collectors give off the same energy as a solar collector but also increase the energy of all immediate surrounding solar collectors by 1. Drilling to the aquifer causes a river to spring up, rivers can act like roads [though it's just much easier and better to build a road for road purposes], give +1 energy to any square they pass through and also help make the soil wetter and more fertile.



Speaking of peculiarities, it's interesting to see how all the faction leaders interacted with one another before the launch. Like the UN inspector in charge of making sure Morgan didn't do any funny business when constructing the big spaceship transferring to a "private company" before launch [just when Morgan sneaks himself on!] or that Zhakarov opposed the appointment of Deidre to chief botanist of the mission. One of the things that I find most intriguing is that Santiago worked directly under Yang and yet didn't end up getting manipulated by him; that's something really rare.

*EDIT
And mad props to Lal, I keep forgetting that he was just the UN Alpha Centauri surgeon. SURGEON.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 03:17:30 pm by Loud Whispers »
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Mr. Strange

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2014, 04:40:15 pm »

Big maps are more fun, but I usually run out of tech and upgrade all units to super weapon-class that can annihilate other factions alone, so it's not so much fun in late game...

Speaking of peculiarities, it's interesting to see how all the faction leaders interacted with one another before the launch. Like the UN inspector in charge of making sure Morgan didn't do any funny business when constructing the big spaceship transferring to a "private company" before launch [just when Morgan sneaks himself on!] or that Zhakarov opposed the appointment of Deidre to chief botanist of the mission. One of the things that I find most intriguing is that Santiago worked directly under Yang and yet didn't end up getting manipulated by him; that's something really rare.

*EDIT
And mad props to Lal, I keep forgetting that he was just the UN Alpha Centauri surgeon. SURGEON.
Don't diss the surgeons, they need nerves of steel to do their job.
Out of curiosity, where do you get these tidbits. I knew about Santiago and Yang, and Zhakarov and Deidre from the novel/whatever about Unity crisis but I don't remember any mention about Morgan before he was found.
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OREOSOME

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2014, 04:43:32 pm »

I finally got a copy of this game and now, I can play. Woohoo?
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2014, 04:52:13 pm »

Big maps are more fun, but I usually run out of tech and upgrade all units to super weapon-class that can annihilate other factions alone, so it's not so much fun in late game...
What faction do you normally play as? Also, you can always handicap yourself.

Don't diss the surgeons, they need nerves of steel to do their job.
Out of curiosity, where do you get these tidbits. I knew about Santiago and Yang, and Zhakarov and Deidre from the novel/whatever about Unity crisis but I don't remember any mention about Morgan before he was found.
http://alphacentauri2.info/official/factions.html
Also not dissing surgeons; it's just amazing that besides Domai, Lal is one of the least likely candidates for leadership and he rises to the challenge anyways. And he even tries to do it peacefully, the guy's a titan!
Also are the novels worth a read? I'm kinda skeptical about them considering how they clash with the in game fluff a fair bit.

Mr. Strange

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2014, 05:46:52 pm »

Also are the novels worth a read? I'm kinda skeptical about them considering how they clash with the in game fluff a fair bit.
It's name was "Journey to Centauri", and its on that site you linked to, >The Story, free to dl links at the bottom. I never read the actual novels, so I can't say anything about them.

And I usually play all but Morgan, with Sparta (trying Supreme Leader victory), University and Hive as favorites. I usually try to role play and make choices like those characters would make, so pre-emptive strikes as Sparta are normal, and so are lesser atrocities as University. Believers tend to die young unless I get lucky and convert some good units from University, and Peacekeepers are always too few and too late to save everyone (but they always try), and those you manage to save tend to backstab you as soon as they get back on their feet...


I finally got a copy of this game and now, I can play. Woohoo?
And OREOSOME was never heard from again. Another victim of "Just-One-More-Turn Syndrome".
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2014, 05:58:34 pm »

And I usually play all but Morgan, with Sparta (trying Supreme Leader victory), University and Hive as favorites. I usually try to role play and make choices like those characters would make, so pre-emptive strikes as Sparta are normal, and so are lesser atrocities as University. Believers tend to die young unless I get lucky and convert some good units from University, and Peacekeepers are always too few and too late to save everyone (but they always try), and those you manage to save tend to backstab you as soon as they get back on their feet...
Heh, I know what you mean. There was this one game where I found out I was the leader in tech as Miriam, and there was a rather familiar secret project called the living colony that I was in a position to exclusively build. I built it on a base on the northern ice cap as far away from other humans as possible, completing and obliterating the secret project and the base just in time for a solar flare.

MANKIND DOES NOT NEED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN BELIEVING COLONY 62-RHO

Though my favourite probably has to be when I went full prophet dawn. I had been quietly biding my time, being polite and all that. When I made an enemy I pursued their destruction with the utmost vigour until they were ready for consumption via mindworm. My pact brothers who allowed my formers into their lands were helpless to find me planting fungus in everything or replacing productive and polluting terrain enhancements with crap. At last I only had two last factions to devour: The military empire of the believers and the misguided gaians. Mindworms killed millions of both of them. I even stole a Gaian planet buster, oh that was fun. Shame I couldn't use it, what with it not making sense if Cha hurt planet that badly.
Everyone died. Then the hive attacked. They had spent all the game building troops and no bases so I thought they were a lot less powerful than they were, they took all of my bases while my troops were busy genociding the believers. It appears even Yang has limits of what's too evil. Good times.

EuchreJack

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2014, 07:07:31 pm »

And mad props to Lal, I keep forgetting that he was just the UN Alpha Centauri surgeon. SURGEON.
Don't diss the surgeons, they need nerves of steel to do their job.
Out of curiosity, where do you get these tidbits. I knew about Santiago and Yang, and Zhakarov and Deidre from the novel/whatever about Unity crisis but I don't remember any mention about Morgan before he was found.
Actually, I think Lal was second-in-command along with being the Ship Surgeon.  But I'm not sure, as most of the leaders tried to bill themselves as second-in-command.

sambojin

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2014, 09:55:20 pm »

So, been dabbling, noticed a few peculiarities with the game, not sure if I'm missing something or if it's just the game showing its age

Am I flat out missing things, or is this just one side effect of being an older game?
*quote snip*

Nope, it's an old game. Micro-management is the best way to play. Actually, it's the best way to play every four-x game ever made. The AI is slightly worse than you at doing things, because it has no idea of what you intended to happen later on down the track. Even if you could show your intentions easily in a stategic game to a very good helper AI, it might do things very differently, possibly better, possibly worse. You might not even realise if that was actually a very good way of winning/doing what you wanted.

Of course, the AI in SMAC isn't really that good, let alone not being able to give it your future intentions for winning the game. The rest is interface, options and age. Still a damn good game though. Up the AI/gameplay cache size to maximum, win a few games, then the opposing AI might get smarter. The helper AI probably won't. Probably.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 10:44:05 pm by sambojin »
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sambojin

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2014, 10:23:17 pm »

There's also a fair amount of fan-patches/mods available for SMAC/SMAX. They tend to fix up the opponent AI a bit. I don't know if this helps with the governor/former AI, but it might.

Here's one of many examples:

http://www.gog.com/forum/sid_meier_s_alpha_centauri_/another_smac_fan_patch
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2014, 04:50:42 pm »

Actually, I think Lal was second-in-command along with being the Ship Surgeon.  But I'm not sure, as most of the leaders tried to bill themselves as second-in-command.
From what I've read from the short story detailing their arrival to AC (so cannon dubious, but otherwise reliable enough), Zhakarov was a commander and Lal doesn't seem to hold a military rank in addition to his civilian rank. Santiago and Deidre are both lieughtenants (though Santiago is a mutineer) and Deidre is working under Zhakarov. Miriam likewise to Lal does not hold a military rank as far as I'm aware. Morgan isn't even supposed to be there. That leaves just two possible choices of who should have taken command after Garland: Zhakarov or Yang. I would say that being the chief of security is less important than the chief of engineering (Zhakarov) or even the chief of surgery (Lal), making our dear Prokhor Sarotov Zhakarov the guy who was the de jure leader of the humans.

Loud Whispers

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2014, 04:16:43 am »

Aaaand I was wrong. Lal is also a commander. They kinda fucked up by having all the chief subordinates be the same rank, disaster was inevitable. Yang is as interesting as ever with his mind games in the story 'journey,' and Miriam actually oddly enough seems to have started out on amicable terms with Lal and Garland. Less so with Santiago. Miriam at one point smiles at the Spartan emissary, it is not a friendly smile. She also butts heads with Zhakarov, there's a hilarious moment where she says he and her need to talk about prayer some time. Yang makes people kill themselves with his mind games. What a swell guy.

So who killed Garland anyways?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 05:42:32 am by Loud Whispers »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2014, 05:36:57 pm »

So I figured out how to win my super massive world:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I had swept away all resistance in bloody battles, seized every strategical outpost in the world island and expanded like there was no tomorrow. The Gaians and University were both also destroyed under my rule, leaving me to make preparations to destroy the remaining three factions who surrendered to me, the remaining three who could not do their own research to any level of genuine quality.

That still left the Morganites. Their island was so distant that sending troops over by transport cruiser was too risky, they still had many patrol foils and there weren't nearly enough of my own destroyers to find all of them and injured ships had nowhere close by to repair themselves. Likewise, air cover was not a thing to be had.

So I started thinking with colony pods. First, nothing too complicated, just snuck a single base through whilst using six foils of my own as a distraction. The idea was to build up a stronghold in the south and use my superior military technology to win. Needlejets were queued up.

Then something weird happened, something that should have been easy suddenly complicated itself further. The Morganites had existed on their island at constant war with all of the factions on the world island, occasionally sending token troops and dueling with world island ships, but never accomplishing anything worthwhile. This had done weird things to their military, things which compel me to investigate how the AI builds itself around faction interactions... Or lack thereof. Their units all sported highly advanced military software like arial tracking systems, yet the fiercest weapon they sported was the humble impact rifle and their armour the simple plasma steel. Then I showed up and I suppose the Morganites realized their military was shit compared to my shard needlejets and 12-5-1 SAM shock troopers. They began flooding my outpost with impact soldiers, then gatling soldiers, then missile soldiers.

So I decided to make a permanent enough solution.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Think with colony pods! With the planetary transit system you can build one colony pod, build a sea base, rush build another colony pod with the first 10 minerals and build another colony pod with the first. Growth becomes exponential! The best part is that with pressure domes you get so much food from the base that you can use the workers to keep themselves in check, equalizing the drones with empaths.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I built a wall around the Morganites that allowed my ships through with ease, put another 197 destroyer ships of the HMS Godwinson variant on the production lines, intercepted all of the mind worms Morgan was causing to appear from reaching the World Island and allowed shard penetrators to begin attacking the Morganite coasts. And then the probe teams arrived.


As for the Garland situation, I'm narrowing down who could have been behind it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's a tie in between the Spartans, University and Hive for "who killed Garland anyways?"

gimlet

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2014, 09:48:29 pm »

There was a story on the firaxis website that told who the killer was.  It's gone now but somebody put up a copy at http://sidmeiersalphacentauri.wikia.com/wiki/Journey_to_Centauri
I can get the first 128k of the story off the Wayback Machine, and it looks like it matches what was posted, but it's cut off before the part with the killing...

ED:  Ahh, I tried again with the .txt version instead of the .rtf and Wayback has the whole thing: https://web.archive.org/web/20080227171819/http://firaxis.com/smac/assets/journey.txt

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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Alpha Centauri (SMAC/SMAX) thread 2
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2014, 05:19:33 pm »

The story only gives a name, it doesn't tell you who sent her. That's the real question, who she really is. Which faction was responsible? Probably all of them, but some more than others.
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