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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Football fans...
They showed themselves as heroes, patriots  and very disciplined paramilitary groups so many times during recent month. And the fact that ultras of all clubs united in defending Ukraine (including Crimean clubs) is amazing

When fans of two clubs that usually fight hard with each other go in joined march singing national anthem, that is cool

[Owlbread]

This, at least the ones who DO go around acting like that. I hear British soccer fans are especially notorious and have been banned from a couple countries. It's also a problem in South America.

In Glasgow, close to where I was born, if you wear the wrong football top in the wrong pub at the wrong time (or on the wrong street at the wrong time) there's a good chance that you'll need some specialist surgeons to put your face back together. Though it is unlikely nowadays there is a chance that you could be killed. I don't like to propagate the old "Glasgow is a rough city" hogwash but that fact remains true.

[XXSockXX]

Aren't all Euro football fans fucking insane and all around horrible people?

^
This, at least the ones who DO go around acting like that. I hear British soccer fans are especially notorious and have been banned from a couple countries. It's also a problem in South America.

Yeah, but Eastern Europeans eat ours for breakfast.

As for the, um, schism, I don't know how fractitous Ukraine is, but the western and central part seem pretty solid.

The south-western part has a lot of Russian speakers too.

Meanwhile in Odessa ~30 dead.... 5 Pro-Ukraine, mostly football ultras, others are (pro)-Russians that learned hard way that Southern Ukraine is not Eastern Ukraine.

30? That sounds bad, media here have only reported the one so far.

According to RIA Novosti, Ultras have set the pro-Russian camp at Kulikovo Pole on fire, Russian supporters fled to the nearby trade union building, which also caught fire. It is unclear what caused it. End result - 38 people suffocated and died.

Oh wow. It's in the media here too now.

[Knit tie]

All Euro football fans are fucking insane and all around horrible people.

FTFY

Also, hey, I've made an inspired rant-post earlier, people, ain't nobody gonna comment on that?

Football fans...
They showed themselves as heroes, patriots  and very disciplined paramilitary groups so many times during recent month. And the fact that ultras of all clubs united in defending Ukraine (including Crimean clubs) is amazing

When fans of two clubs that usually fight hard with each other go in joined march singing national anthem, that is cool

Oh, I am sure it's not all sunshine and rainbows in the football fan club. Besides, having an external enemy to rally against is a very effective way of uniting people.

[Guardian G.I.]

Russia's RIA Novosti reported that pro-Russian forces and Ukrainian National Guard were fighting on the outskirts of Kramatorsk about an hour ago. Pro-Russian forces claim that several dozen people have been killed or injured.

[miljan]

Football ultras? and I meant before the Ukranian APCs were captured, there was footage of the pro-russians with some military vehicles.

There was no russian military vehicles before the APC capture. There was misinformation/propaganda of some media talking that those APC are from russian. But that was not correct.

[smjjames]

Football ultras? and I meant before the Ukranian APCs were captured, there was footage of the pro-russians with some military vehicles.

There was no russian military vehicles before the APC capture. There was misinformation/propaganda of some media talking that those APC are from russian. But that was not correct.

I swear I saw a vid earlier from before the capture showing pro-russian guys with military vehichles, it was the one that showed up or linked at the time that they were distributing those apparently bogus fliers targeting jews.

[miljan]

Football ultras? and I meant before the Ukranian APCs were captured, there was footage of the pro-russians with some military vehicles.

There was no russian military vehicles before the APC capture. There was misinformation/propaganda of some media talking that those APC are from russian. But that was not correct.

I swear I saw a vid earlier from before the capture showing pro-russian guys with military vehichles, it was the one that showed up or linked at the time that they were distributing those apparently bogus fliers targeting jews.

I belive you saw some video about something, but it was apparently not true (and also you should always check different sources and similar , because its very easy to trick people with old videos and similar).

It looks like there are around 40 people dead from fires in Odessa. I hope this will not start a full civil war.

[smjjames]

Football ultras? and I meant before the Ukranian APCs were captured, there was footage of the pro-russians with some military vehicles.

There was no russian military vehicles before the APC capture. There was misinformation/propaganda of some media talking that those APC are from russian. But that was not correct.

I swear I saw a vid earlier from before the capture showing pro-russian guys with military vehichles, it was the one that showed up or linked at the time that they were distributing those apparently bogus fliers targeting jews.

I belive you saw some video about something, but it was apparently not true (and also you should always check different sources and similar , because its very easy to trick people with old videos and similar).

It looks like there are around 40 people dead from fires in Odessa. I hope this will not start a full civil war.

It was posted on this thread though. I'll see if I can find it. Maybe those actually were the Ukranian APCs, no idea.

Edit: Looks like the video was taken down because the owner closed their account and I'll admit that I'm not sure what I saw, I think they were even going in circles with one of the vehichles and having a bit of fun in one part.

[GreatJustice]

One thing I think that some might be neglecting is that pro-Russian Ukrainian rebels don't necessarily need to get military hardware from the Russians (though that certainly seems to be happening right now), since there is a fair amount of defection from Ukrainian police/military forces, and the hardware they use is quite similar to that used by the Russians. Some of this defection is because the soldiers/cops in question are actually supportive of secession, but some is because the Ukrainian army is barely supplied and poorly paid, so some may well defect simply so that they can feed and protect their families. In the event of an actual war, the Ukrainian army in its present state would crumple like a paper towel in the face of a strong force like that of Russia, but it's so large and unwieldy that it is extremely vulnerable to internal defection, loss of supplies, and so on.

[Guardian G.I.]

Ukrainian television channel 1+1 claims that among the people who died in the Trade Union Building fire in Odessa there were 15 Russian citizens and 5 citizens of Transdnestria.
If it's true, than depending on a political point of view one may assume that:

A. Russian provocateurs, separatists, spies and other very awful people organized and/or took part in Odessa riots;
B. Ukrainian Ultras have (indirectly, due to сarbon monoxide produced by the fire) killed 15 Russian citizens, who pretty much could be tourists or apolitical bystanders.

If the Russian government assumes that B actually happened, then the Ukrainian government can potentially find themselves in a world of hurt.

[Knit tie]

I think option B is much more plausible. Soccer fans have started fires in the past, many times even.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

since there is a fair amount of defection from Ukrainian police/military forces, and the hardware they use is quite similar to that used by the Russians.

Ukrainian army has no AK-100s that was spotted more than once. Same goes for helmets and some other stuff.

Any other black ops force would use  weapons and uniforms common for the area they act in, but Russians are so sure that they can do anything they want unpunished that they don't even bother

[Ukrainian Ranger]

My vision of events in Odessa

Fans went in peaceful march under Ukrainian flags(it wasn't  only ultras, locals including women and chlidren were present, too) That is a tradition nowadays, before match fans of opposing teams form a column and go together to the stadium

The column got attacked by paid thugs (or just violent Pro-Russians) that were coordinated with police that ignored their actions staying idly aside. Same stuff happened in Donetsk some time back.

Difference here is they attacked guys who know a thing or two about streetfighting, and what is more important, the whole city arise to counter them as soon as rumors spread (twitter is great) after that mini-maydan emerged nearly instantly, huge crowd assembled and bastards got what they deserved

(Yeah, you can name me heartless and terrible person, but for it is few dead patriots, unknown number of unlucky bystanders suffered and not enough scum eliminated. Hope there will be fewer idiots who want to get their $20 for beating Ukrainians that "dare" to walk with Ukrainian flags)

Ps. It would be better if that guys went to the jail, but when justice system fails to work stuff like that happens

[Sergarr]

Yeah, with this attitude the civil war is imminent.